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Author: Subject: Possible new race class within RGB aimed at 7's
MK9R

posted on 17/3/15 at 11:48 AM Reply With Quote
Possible new race class within RGB aimed at 7's

We are looking at a way of increasing the appeal to RGB, especially in the front engined class.

At the moment it is just idea so it's open for discussion and input from people interested in joining if the class structure is there.

The way RGB has developed over the past few years has meant that a 7 isnt necessarily going to be massively competitive with class F due to all the development in full bodies and aerodynamic aids.This is leaving a huge hole for the where the 7 type BEC can race. It's a huge market and there are lots and lots of cars already out there, that if we could design a class to incorporate these the grids should be really healthy.

Our initial idea is have a "non aero"/7 shape class. The rules would be written as to enforce the 7 shape with no additional aero aids being allowed. in an attempt to try and bring the 7s performance on line with the more aero bodies cars there would be a weight concession, currently class F has a minimum weight limit of 560kg, this would be reduced to old 530kg for 7 shape cars.

This is the simplest idea and keep structures easy but there ould be room for maybe engine differences (carb and injection? ?)

Anyway this is just an idea and I would love to hear some opinions and discussions (constructive please).





Cheers Austen

RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk

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Doctor Derek Doctors

posted on 17/3/15 at 12:56 PM Reply With Quote
My car (a tube spaceframe 7) was originally built for RGB Class F but by the time it was finished (late 2012) it was clear that the non-aero series had become a series where only bodied aero cars could compete so I never bothered to enter and went hillclimb/sprinting with it instead. I think other 7 owners where put off by the same factors as well.

When it was scrutineered as well (ready to enter) there were also some other stupid rules that punished 7's like having to have 5" (I think) Diameter headlights... my car had fully road legal 3.5" diameter headlights so the rule made a mockery of the 'Road Going' part of RGB and specifically handicapped 7 type cars with lights on pods.
Also there was some confusion as to whether the cycle wings were bodywork or not and so whether they were the limit of the bodywork (they should be) so this would need to be clarified.

530Kg seems like a good weight limit (my fat body would put me right on that) perhaps there could be another 10kg knocked off for running a carb engine. Also might be worth allowing cars over 1000cc as there are plenty of ZX12/GSXR1100 powered 7's out there but with a weight penalty.

So for instance
<1000cc = 530kg
1000-1099cc = 545Kg
1100-1199cc = 560kg
>1200cc = 575kg
with a 10kg reduction for carb' engines.

That might mean a 520kg 893/919 'Blade might have a chance against a 575kg 'Busa powered car.

I do foresee a problem in enforcing whether or not something is a 7 type car, its a bit open to interpretation.

Anyway, as someone who tried to enter RGB with a seven these are just my thoughts. I suppose it depends on whether you want to pull in bigger grids or just cater for a few people already out there.





Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~5k.

Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.

Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.



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www.racecarwings.co.uk

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MK9R

posted on 17/3/15 at 01:04 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
My car (a tube spaceframe 7) was originally built for RGB Class F but by the time it was finished (late 2012) it was clear that the non-aero series had become a series where only bodied aero cars could compete so I never bothered to enter and went hillclimb/sprinting with it instead. I think other 7 owners where put off by the same factors as well.

When it was scrutineered as well (ready to enter) there were also some other stupid rules that punished 7's like having to have 5" (I think) Diameter headlights... my car had fully road legal 3.5" diameter headlights so the rule made a mockery of the 'Road Going' part of RGB and specifically handicapped 7 type cars with lights on pods.
Also there was some confusion as to whether the cycle wings were bodywork or not and so whether they were the limit of the bodywork (they should be) so this would need to be clarified.

530Kg seems like a good weight limit (my fat body would put me right on that) perhaps there could be another 10kg knocked off for running a carb engine. Also might be worth allowing cars over 1000cc as there are plenty of ZX12/GSXR1100 powered 7's out there but with a weight penalty.

So for instance
<1000cc = 530kg
1000-1099cc = 545Kg
1100-1199cc = 560kg
>1200cc = 575kg
with a 10kg reduction for carb' engines.

That might mean a 520kg 893/919 'Blade might have a chance against a 575kg 'Busa powered car.

I do foresee a problem in enforcing whether or not something is a 7 type car, its a bit open to interpretation.

Anyway, as someone who tried to enter RGB with a seven these are just my thoughts. I suppose it depends on whether you want to pull in bigger grids or just cater for a few people already out there.



Ohhh we wondered what happened to you!!! Good to hear you got the car out and doing motorsport in it.

Thanks for the feedback, very constructive and from the real birds eye view!!

I do hear what you say about weight v engine power. Yes it's something that can be considered. What ever we xome up with has to be easily policed, as simple as possible and a structure that doesn't create lots of classes. One of the big things we tried to do over the past few years in RGB is to simplify rules and cut down the numbers of classes to ensure healthy numbers in each class.

We have had some ideas put down on paper as what defines a 7 and also what defines aero aids.but it's a long way off and still open to discussion to ensure we can accommodate as many 7s as possible





Cheers Austen

RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk

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Trollyjack

posted on 18/3/15 at 12:31 PM Reply With Quote
Most 7s are simular
But which rear end english axil or IRS





TrollyJack

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Doctor Derek Doctors

posted on 18/3/15 at 01:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
My car (a tube spaceframe 7) was originally built for RGB Class F but by the time it was finished (late 2012) it was clear that the non-aero series had become a series where only bodied aero cars could compete so I never bothered to enter and went hillclimb/sprinting with it instead. I think other 7 owners where put off by the same factors as well.

When it was scrutineered as well (ready to enter) there were also some other stupid rules that punished 7's like having to have 5" (I think) Diameter headlights... my car had fully road legal 3.5" diameter headlights so the rule made a mockery of the 'Road Going' part of RGB and specifically handicapped 7 type cars with lights on pods.
Also there was some confusion as to whether the cycle wings were bodywork or not and so whether they were the limit of the bodywork (they should be) so this would need to be clarified.

530Kg seems like a good weight limit (my fat body would put me right on that) perhaps there could be another 10kg knocked off for running a carb engine. Also might be worth allowing cars over 1000cc as there are plenty of ZX12/GSXR1100 powered 7's out there but with a weight penalty.

So for instance
<1000cc = 530kg
1000-1099cc = 545Kg
1100-1199cc = 560kg
>1200cc = 575kg
with a 10kg reduction for carb' engines.

That might mean a 520kg 893/919 'Blade might have a chance against a 575kg 'Busa powered car.

I do foresee a problem in enforcing whether or not something is a 7 type car, its a bit open to interpretation.

Anyway, as someone who tried to enter RGB with a seven these are just my thoughts. I suppose it depends on whether you want to pull in bigger grids or just cater for a few people already out there.



Ohhh we wondered what happened to you!!! Good to hear you got the car out and doing motorsport in it.

Thanks for the feedback, very constructive and from the real birds eye view!!

I do hear what you say about weight v engine power. Yes it's something that can be considered. What ever we xome up with has to be easily policed, as simple as possible and a structure that doesn't create lots of classes. One of the big things we tried to do over the past few years in RGB is to simplify rules and cut down the numbers of classes to ensure healthy numbers in each class.

We have had some ideas put down on paper as what defines a 7 and also what defines aero aids.but it's a long way off and still open to discussion to ensure we can accommodate as many 7s as possible


I was entered to race in the last event in 2012 but my engine burst in testing just before the event, got a new one ready for the 2013 but by that time the RGB series had moved further towards aero-cars.

If there was a 7's class I would probably try to put an entry together.





Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~5k.

Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.

Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.



www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk

callan@t89.co.uk

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MK9R

posted on 18/3/15 at 01:21 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Trollyjack
Most 7s are simular
But which rear end english axil or IRS


Suspension is free in RGB so would follow the same ethos. I won class F in 2013 in a live axle fury so just as competitive





Cheers Austen

RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk

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yngndrw

posted on 19/3/15 at 01:36 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Doctor Derek Doctors
530Kg seems like a good weight limit (my fat body would put me right on that) perhaps there could be another 10kg knocked off for running a carb engine. Also might be worth allowing cars over 1000cc as there are plenty of ZX12/GSXR1100 powered 7's out there but with a weight penalty.

So for instance
<1000cc = 530kg
1000-1099cc = 545Kg
1100-1199cc = 560kg
>1200cc = 575kg
with a 10kg reduction for carb' engines.

That might mean a 520kg 893/919 'Blade might have a chance against a 575kg 'Busa powered car.

Maybe the weight limit could be based upon a power-to-weight ration limit rather than being based on the engine capacity and if it has carbs or fuel injection ? This may better cater for the issue of older engines vs newer engines.

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Doctor Derek Doctors

posted on 19/3/15 at 01:46 PM Reply With Quote
That would mean putting every car on a dyno as well as a weigh patch after each race. They used to use this system in British GT and it meant randomly sealing up cars and then forcing the owners to send then to a dyno for a Monday morning test. Was a logistical nightmare and open to abuse.





Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~5k.

Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.

Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.



www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk

callan@t89.co.uk

NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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yngndrw

posted on 19/3/15 at 01:50 PM Reply With Quote
Well the engines already have to be mostly standard so you could probably just use the original factory horsepower ratings of the engines.

I believe that currently in RGB some of the engines are randomly tested at the end of the season to ensure that they are standard.

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gaz_gaz

posted on 29/5/15 at 08:54 AM Reply With Quote
Has there been any development on this?
I'm at a point at the moment where I'm trying to decide which way to go with a build,
RGB has always been appealing to me but I prefer the seven to the full bodied cars and If there was a real chance of this happening I'd most likely build with RGB in mind.

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MK9R

posted on 29/5/15 at 09:25 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gaz_gaz
Has there been any development on this?
I'm at a point at the moment where I'm trying to decide which way to go with a build,
RGB has always been appealing to me but I prefer the seven to the full bodied cars and If there was a real chance of this happening I'd most likely build with RGB in mind.


we are pushing for 7s to come back and as many new f cars as possible.





Cheers Austen

RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk

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MK9R

posted on 4/6/15 at 02:18 PM Reply With Quote
OK so the starting point for the 7 specific rules for 2016 will be along the line of the following

Car must be the classic 7 shape (front cycle wings allowed) - we will draw up a some basic rules based on the 7 shape
No aero aids allowed to body shape, ie no rear or front splitters, not gurney flaps or down force producing shapes to extend from the body work
Minimum weight limit 520kg
fixed or single adjustable dampers only - still to be agreed
1 piece brake discs - still to be agreed

The idea is to get build costs to a minimum so looking at he most expensive items like dampers, i though stating 1 way only would help reduce entry costs substantially.

Speaking to Marc at MNR, he could supply a comprehensive kit to meet these regs and weights limits, based on the new all inboard pushrod suspension chassis that the current MNR GM car run for 11k, this is minus engine, exhaust and wheels. This means if you built the car yourself you would be on the grid for 14k.

The other alternative is to but a class F ready second hand car, there are 2 very competative cars currently available for under 10k, and there are others about for a lot less too.





Cheers Austen

RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk

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MK9R

posted on 16/6/15 at 05:18 PM Reply With Quote
######## BREAKING NEWS!!! #########

Class F and R will be run on seperate grids at anglesey! !!

Current we have 13 Fs entered, but there is plenty of room for late comers so please get your entries in to give the club as much confidence and support as possible





Cheers Austen

RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk

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