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Author: Subject: Side lights wired to ignition
dinosaurjuice

posted on 27/10/16 at 02:12 PM Reply With Quote
Side lights wired to ignition

Hi All,

Planning on re-wiring the Rocket over winter and have had a possibly brilliant/silly idea...

I want to get rid of the side light switch and additional wiring and just wire the circuit directly to a fused spur from the ignition barrel, so ignition on = lights on.

All of my side light and number plate bulbs are LED and use very little power.
I always drive with side lights on.
I want less switches!

Is it illegal? my ignition barrel would essentially become the side light switch. The lights would turn off when cranking.

I know my MOT tester wouldn't care, but that's not the point. I want the car to be above board as much as possible.

Cheers
Will

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loggyboy

posted on 27/10/16 at 02:25 PM Reply With Quote
Not illegal AFAIK, might fail IVA which is obviously not an issue for you.
MOt does mention a RFR of '2. The front and rear position lamps do not illuminate with a single operation of the switch.'
But as sides are never gonna blind anyone, I dont think anyone outside of a friendly MoT tester would care.

Personally I would want a hidden override switch for those painful times you have a flat battery and you want to ensure nothing is gonna take that last milliamp needed to start the car!

[Edited on 27-10-16 by loggyboy]






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Slimy38

posted on 27/10/16 at 02:53 PM Reply With Quote
Volvo's have been doing it for years...

Thinking about it, I do know there are quite a few bikes now that don't have light switches even for their dipped lights.

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dinosaurjuice

posted on 27/10/16 at 03:46 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
Volvo's have been doing it for years...

Thinking about it, I do know there are quite a few bikes now that don't have light switches even for their dipped lights.


Now why didn't i think of that!

Having a hidden switch is an excellent idea, even if its just a inline superseal plug.

Cheers guys

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gremlin1234

posted on 27/10/16 at 04:39 PM Reply With Quote
all car models type approved since feb 2011 have to have daytime running lights,
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/408964/daytime-running-lights.pdf

note drl are front only, and have to be dimmed at night!

edit, drl are optional for iva

[Edited on 27/10/16 by gremlin1234]

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David Jenkins

posted on 27/10/16 at 04:57 PM Reply With Quote
As a matter of interest, how would you switch on your sidelights when you're parked on the side of the road, if you don't have a switch to switch them on with?





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gremlin1234

posted on 27/10/16 at 05:02 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
As a matter of interest, how would you switch on your sidelights when you're parked on the side of the road, if you don't have a switch to switch them on with?
a lot of cars switch 'parking lights' on, if the indicator is left on, with the ignition off

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David Jenkins

posted on 27/10/16 at 05:05 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
As a matter of interest, how would you switch on your sidelights when you're parked on the side of the road, if you don't have a switch to switch them on with?
a lot of cars switch 'parking lights' on, if the indicator is left on, with the ignition off


That would be an interesting bit of wiring in a kit car... perfectly feasible, but fiddly.





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britishtrident

posted on 27/10/16 at 05:53 PM Reply With Quote
Aftermarket DRL relay units monitor the battery voltage and only switch on the when the alternator starts charging and switch off 12 to 60 seconds after engine shuts off, they wire straight to a battery +supply via a fuse.



[Edited on 27/10/16 by britishtrident]





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loggyboy

posted on 27/10/16 at 06:47 PM Reply With Quote
Volvos run dipped headlights at all times, not sides.






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snapper

posted on 27/10/16 at 07:05 PM Reply With Quote
Hive remote app or
Apple home app
Then you can use Siri





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dinosaurjuice

posted on 27/10/16 at 08:35 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
As a matter of interest, how would you switch on your sidelights when you're parked on the side of the road, if you don't have a switch to switch them on with?


Interesting point. I don't leave the kitcar out at night so not a concern, is it a legal requirement?

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David Jenkins

posted on 27/10/16 at 08:58 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice

Interesting point. I don't leave the kitcar out at night so not a concern, is it a legal requirement?


Well, the correct name for sidelights is 'positional lights', I believe. You do need to be able to turn them on if you park on an unlit street but, as said above, there are ways of dealing with this requirement (e.g. putting the indicator one way after turning off the ignition).

Have you got access to an IVA manual? It's available on-line somewhere. That should tell you the current requirements, even if you don't want to go through the inspection.

[Edited on 27/10/16 by David Jenkins]





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gremlin1234

posted on 27/10/16 at 09:14 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice

Interesting point. I don't leave the kitcar out at night so not a concern, is it a legal requirement?


Well, the correct name for sidelights is 'positional lights', I believe. You do need to be able to turn them on if you park on an unlit street but, as said above, there are ways of dealing with this requirement (e.g. putting the indicator one way after turning off the ignition).

Have you got access to an IVA manual? It's available on-line somewhere. That should tell you the current requirements, even if you don't want to go through the inspection.

[Edited on 27/10/16 by David Jenkins]
iva s30 says parking lamps optional. ps its position lamps not positional

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David Jenkins

posted on 27/10/16 at 09:24 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gremlin1234

iva s30 says parking lamps optional. ps its position lamps not positional


OK, that's changed since I had to do SVA.

As for 'positional/position' - I was typing from memory! After all, it's not an exam...





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David Jenkins

posted on 27/10/16 at 09:31 PM Reply With Quote
I'm officially confused!

I just looked at the MOT requirements manual here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/518634/mot-inspection-manual-for-class-3-4-5-and-7-vehicles.pdf

Section 1.1 describes testing the position lights - and implies that they must be able to be switched on when required. How and when this should happen? No idea.

I'm not trying to contradict what anyone's said above - it's just that now I'm unsure.

In my car there's one 3-way switch that puts the sidelights and headlights on, which is the simplest way... I'm glad I didn't try to make it complicated!





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907

posted on 28/10/16 at 06:52 AM Reply With Quote
AFAIK indicator switch remains on (left or right) only lights 1 rear and 1 front, so not legal for parking on an unlit road.


Most cars have a multi position switch for lights. OFF - SIDE - MAIN (pull for fog - turn for rear fog)
so since you need a switch for lights anyway you don't save a switch at all ?????


I don't INTEND to park on the road but there will come a time when I need to. Perhaps an evening pub meet where
the car park overflows or a *breakdown*, puncture, run out of petrol, an accident, any one of a thousand reasons when
you need parking lights.


Paul G


* Obviously "breakdown" doesn't apply to my Lotus, but I did use some non-Lotus parts in the build.



[Edited on 28/10/16 by 907]





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steve m

posted on 28/10/16 at 01:38 PM Reply With Quote
I have done something similar, but with small drl's, the front led drl's come on when the ignition is switched on, and remain on, until the ignition is turned off

The side lights are on the original switch, and can also be switched on, which will give me two led drl's and two side lights

Just to add to my confusing light display I have also wired the gopro to only come on when the lights are switched on, as this appears to be when all the fuckwits decide to pull out on me

steve





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




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David Jenkins

posted on 28/10/16 at 05:30 PM Reply With Quote
And just to make things complicated () I put DRLs on my car - they are on when the ignition is on, but go off when I turn on the headlights.

This is on top of the normal Off - sides - headlights switch.

[Edited on 28/10/16 by David Jenkins]





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SteveWalker

posted on 28/10/16 at 08:11 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
As a matter of interest, how would you switch on your sidelights when you're parked on the side of the road, if you don't have a switch to switch them on with?


Interesting point. I don't leave the kitcar out at night so not a concern, is it a legal requirement?


You could always be caught out by a change of plans or a problem or even a change in the weather during daytime ...

Section 24 of The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989:

24.—(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (5) and (9), no person shall–
(a)
use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road any vehicle which is in motion–
(i)
between sunset and sunrise, or
(ii)
in seriously reduced visibility between sunrise and sunset; or
(b)
allow to remain at rest, or cause or permit to be allowed to remain at rest, on a road any vehicle between sunset and sunrise
unless every front position lamp, rear position lamp, rear registration plate lamp, side marker lamp and end-outline marker lamp with which the vehicle is required by these Regulations to be fitted is kept lit and unobscured.

5 and 9 refer to parking in designated parking spaces or laybys or on roads with a speed limit of 30mph or less, etc.

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snowy2

posted on 30/10/16 at 07:00 AM Reply With Quote
my question would be .....Why?
unless you live in a Scandinavian country what’s the point? its not as if it would enhance the safety for the car at all. its doubtful that it helps motorbikes either (no research has ever been done!) i do know that when i took my advanced motorbike test in the 80's the instructors were all of the opinion that they were necessary, so we did an experiment and drove half the day with them off (in good weather, a bright and sunny summer day) and half on......not a single car pulled out on us with the lights off. it happened several times with them on...the instructors claimed it was all coincidence. my last bike got modified so the lights could be switched off when i decided they were not necessary.





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dinosaurjuice

posted on 1/11/16 at 09:32 AM Reply With Quote
This forums great. Some very useful opinion and facts bought up, much appreciated.

Im going to wire the side lights as per the regular way, on a 3 position switch 'off-side-dipped'. I previously had separate switches for this.

I still dont understand the DRL thing. All too often i see people with LED DRL's driving around in the dark... plenty of light in front of them but no tail lights on but thats driver error, and it would be impossible to engineer a car to allow for every deviation of idiot

Cheers
Will

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