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Author: Subject: Chassis refurb paint (again)
bi22le

posted on 2/10/17 at 09:54 PM Reply With Quote
Chassis refurb paint (again)

I have had a good search and read on here and there is a lot of conflicting info, soooooooo, I thought I would muddy the water and ask again!

I have striped all the parts off of the back end and I will be peeling off the powdercoat where it has lifted. Some of the rust, although only surface, has got into the corners and will be a pain to fully remove.

3 questions:

1 - In this modern day world, is there a recommended paint or primer that can go onto relatively clean rust patches?!?
I would rather brush on, spray paint is just a compromise in my eyes.

2 - what ever primer and paint you recommend for above must be stable against petrol. The Hammerite I used before lifted once in contact with petrol.

3 - before the above is applied I need to decrease and clean it all. Any suggestions that will cut through all of the grease and grime without making things worse?

Cheers all.





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bi22le

posted on 2/10/17 at 10:33 PM Reply With Quote
Reading on Frost's website POR15 due appear to be what I am looking for. About 50quid should get me a degreaser, prep, primer and paint.

POR15 was also mentioned on a good few posts on here as well. Only problem is that I don't want 2 pack paint. I just want to shake pop a lid and paint.





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1

Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I

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gingerprince

posted on 3/10/17 at 06:17 AM Reply With Quote
POR15 is good stuff. I redid my chassis quite a few years ago and it's still solid. Only place it's had an issue is where I spilled brake fluid in it.

It does fade to a hazy black/grey under UV though so if you use it for external bits like wishbones you may want to top coat it.

It's all pop and brush, not 2 pack. I used the metal prep etc which is an acid based bare metal primer.

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jps

posted on 3/10/17 at 08:06 AM Reply With Quote
The latest recommendations from POR is that you have to use a tie-coat primer on top of the POR15 (the stuff avaiable in the tiny cans) before top coating - which personally was more faff than I had hoped for...

But that said, I painted my chassis with POR15 about 3 years ago, and within a couple of days sprayed it with POR Blackcote - without a tie-coat primer - and on the whole the coverage and adhesion of the paint seems to have been good - just a couple of 1cm sq spots where the paint has peeled.

I need to touch up various bumps and scrapes (e.g. inside the engine bay) - and intend to scuff up the existing paint and go over with something like this: http://www.diy.com/departments/fortress-black-gloss-metal-paint-750-ml/127964_BQ.prd

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Angel Acevedo

posted on 3/10/17 at 02:21 PM Reply With Quote
You can use Polymeric Rust Converter.
There are a couple of brands.
HTH.





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Barkalarr
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posted on 3/10/17 at 03:01 PM Reply With Quote
Another +1 for PoR15. Little tip, make sure you decant what you need into another jar. Don’t wipe your brush around the lid and the reveal - it will just stick the lid shut and you will never get to the spare 1/2 tin you have left.
Ask me how I know ......

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gingerprince

posted on 3/10/17 at 03:27 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barkalarr
Another +1 for PoR15. Little tip, make sure you decant what you need into another jar. Don’t wipe your brush around the lid and the reveal - it will just stick the lid shut and you will never get to the spare 1/2 tin you have left.
Ask me how I know ......


Yep, it's what's known as Structural Paint

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theconrodkid

posted on 3/10/17 at 03:45 PM Reply With Quote
I bought a chassis that had been painted with por 15, tried to remove some paint to weld a bracket on, gave up with Mr angry grinder and had to use a wood chisel, it is super tough.





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jps

posted on 3/10/17 at 04:01 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
I bought a chassis that had been painted with por 15, tried to remove some paint to weld a bracket on, gave up with Mr angry grinder and had to use a wood chisel, it is super tough.


I've had plenty of success scraping it off with the cut edge of a 1.2mm aluminium transmission tunnel panel when offering up my panels to get the fit right - and also by whacking the sump of my Pinto against the chassis rails when trying to get the engine in place to fabricate the engine mounts!

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snippy

posted on 3/10/17 at 09:13 PM Reply With Quote
I have also used POR15 on a previous project chassis. It dries with no brush strokes which gives a nice finish. As said above though the paint left in the tin will go off very quickly. The trick here is to put some cling film over the tin before refitting the lid. It gives an airtight seal and you can use it many times each time using fresh cling film. I did this and my tin lasted a good 12 months.
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bi22le

posted on 3/10/17 at 09:30 PM Reply With Quote
POR 15 seems to have a good backing but it is also amazing how split some opinions are.

I guess it is all in the prep and application. As it always is with paint.

I must be better than the bubbling rust coated frame that I have at the moment!!





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1

Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I

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jps

posted on 4/10/17 at 08:27 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
POR 15 seems to have a good backing but it is also amazing how split some opinions are.

I guess it is all in the prep and application. As it always is with paint.

I must be better than the bubbling rust coated frame that I have at the moment!!


I would guess it comes down to experience of using paint - I know it's not rocket science - but it's easy to get wrong - too much paint/too little /.etc.
Personally I can probably count on my two hands the number of things I've painted with metal paint by brush - and on one hand the number of things i've painted with aerosols. I expect that has a lot to do with it!

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alfas

posted on 1/12/17 at 05:10 PM Reply With Quote
there are some rust-remover gel´s on the market..this would be my 1st step.

than apply whatever chassis-paint you will find. ..or por15..

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CosKev3

posted on 1/12/17 at 05:58 PM Reply With Quote
Rust Bullet is really good stuff, but it's silver and needs a top coat over it.
They also do a really good acid etch prep cleaner for pre cleaning.

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bi22le

posted on 1/12/17 at 08:23 PM Reply With Quote
I have been using POR15. I'll do a full write up and review once I have finished the work.





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1

Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I

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MadMaxx

posted on 2/12/17 at 04:25 PM Reply With Quote
I'm going to do the same, so very interested in process and results.





My re-building diary:

http://www.llcc.it/YetAnotherForum.NET/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13448

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perksy

posted on 2/12/17 at 05:35 PM Reply With Quote
I've used Por 15 a few times and always used their metal prep first

Good stuff but don't get it on your skin

Tried the cling film trick but sadly the remaining paint still went off in the can, It came out as a solid lump and tried breaking it up with a hammer but didn't have much luck, so its pretty tough stuff

It doesn't like sticking to a 'polished' metal surface though..

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jps

posted on 3/12/17 at 09:21 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by perksy
I've used Por 15 a few times and always used their metal prep first

Good stuff but don't get it on your skin

Tried the cling film trick but sadly the remaining paint still went off in the can, It came out as a solid lump and tried breaking it up with a hammer but didn't have much luck, so its pretty tough stuff

It doesn't like sticking to a 'polished' metal surface though..


I have had a few small bits (like postage stamp size) peel from my chassis - I would presume my prep was not good enough BUT....

I POR'd my engine mounts and diff mounts a few months ago - and because I had decanted and had a fair bit left - thought i'd try an experiment...

Without even brushing off the sawdust and grime I coated as much of my antique, and mildly rusty in places, Black and Decker workmate as I could - just to see what sort of adhesion the POR will give over time. So far (about 3/4 months in I think) it's showing no signs of coming off.

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bi22le

posted on 3/12/17 at 11:05 PM Reply With Quote
I was out there again tonight preparing half shafts and uprights for a re coat. They are not in bad condition, the powder coating has lasted well in places, I'm doing this mainly to make sure they are protected and give the whole rear end a fresh look while it is a part.

It sounds silly but taking thing apart and prepping then for paint makes you spend longer looking at them, this makes you double check that everything is good and proper. A side effect I never considered before but has already helped me find things I would not of spotted with just a quick clean.

Cling film has not worked for me either. I'm going to have to smash through a thick skin which has set to get to the liquid underneath.





Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!

Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1

Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I

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JMW

posted on 4/12/17 at 11:49 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bi22le...
Cling film has not worked for me either. I'm going to have to smash through a thick skin which has set to get to the liquid underneath.


Would storing the tin upside down answer this issue, or would it just glue the lid on super tight instead (even with clingfilm)?

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fastpedaller

posted on 27/2/18 at 08:31 PM Reply With Quote
I have to say I'm not a fan of powder coat (even less of Hammerite). I've used just a simple oil-based (ie white spirit soluble) red oxide paint (onto very clean metal, abraded with emery cloth). I've then degreased the metal with panel wipe. Anyway, red oxide, followed by undercoat, followed by a good quality gloss black (Johnstons, Dulux maybe) All brushed on, and it's always stayed good.
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JonBowden

posted on 28/2/18 at 01:21 PM Reply With Quote
I'm not keen on powder coat either - it always seems to get rust under it.
My garage has a steel roof structure that I sanded and painted straight over the rust with gray POR 15.
I can confirm that it goes mat if left in the sun which is a pest but the result is good and does seem to last well
I would take a lot of persuading to use anything else.
I plan to use it on my Westfield chassis and on an old Lotus Elan chassis.
It really is nice stuff.
It's also nice to use by brush





Jon

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MikeR

posted on 12/3/18 at 10:05 AM Reply With Quote
One of the classic mags did a long term test of paints and POR15 did ok, but wasn't the best. I'll have a hunt to see if i can find the article.
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MikeR

posted on 12/3/18 at 10:12 AM Reply With Quote
found it...

link below but POR15 over 3 years did worse than i'd remembered. The winner was rust buster epoxy mastic.

http://www.auson.se/sites/default/files/rusttest_noxudol_700_classic_monthly_uk_0.pdf


They also have a guide to painting which i've not read but may be useful.

http://www.rust.co.uk/3-treating-rust-the-rustbuster-way/t20

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atomic

posted on 17/1/19 at 11:53 PM Reply With Quote
Tried most things on the market and most found wanting. Good preparation is key.

A quality degreaser, then prep with Por15 Metal Prep (creates a zinc phosphate coating on the surface) then paint with Steel-It 1002 or 1012
This stuff is the best I’ve found. http://www.steel-it.com/polyurethane-stainless-steel-coatings-10
http://www.steel-it.com/automotive-applications-of-steel-it-5

http://www.steel-it.com/images/documents/steel-it-off-road-brochure.pdf

[Edited on 19/1/19 by atomic]

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