200SX 1.8T engine
[Edited on 9/7/15 by coyoteboy]
I keep getting asked what engines going into my Tiger so I think its time to start seriously considering my options.
I won't have a lot to spend £1000 at the most. My original thoughts were a Zetec on bike carbs running Nodiz, I have a friend who can port the
heads FOC but would this get me 200bhp for £1000.
what are my other options.
Duratec
R1 bike. Won't get the 200hp for a grand but you have great power to weight
Vxr astra engine turbo on non.
Not a huge amount of choice in the Avon chassis really.
Zetec, ITB's and cams would get you close to 200bhp I think, I'm prepared to be corrected though. That could definitely be done for less
than a grand...
Chris.
DIY MX5 turbo kit?
04-06 R1 yamaha. They can be had cheap,and obviously come with a box.
But you'll never do it for £1k by the time you've had an exhaust made,a prop,diff and mapped etc
Duratec - will be way over a grand ask me how I know!!
On a budget in an Avon - silver top Zetec if your running carbs, but I doubt you'll get near 200bhp.
SAAB turbo from a 93/95 ? Probably get a whole car for less than £1k, so engine ECU loom ect
Dont know about gearbox though.
Nitrous.
The engine is always the cheap bit.
Add on ex manifold, can, inlet manifold, carbs/itbs, clutch, flywheel, water pump mod, pulleys, sump, belts, gearbox, alternator, ECU,, engine mounts,
fuel pump, regulator, filters, prop etc and your grand will have gone a while back.
It can be done of course, but I'd like to see a real breakdown of costs by those that have and bet that they grabbed a few used mega bargains in
order to do it.
All IMHO of course.
[Edited on 9/7/15 by kingster996]
Volvo engine from a 700 series or a 900 series and standard tweaked management.
Redblock or white block, turbo or NA- 200HP and well within the scope of £1k
BAM 225 out of a Seat Cupra R or Audi TT.
Comes with 225 bhp and stage 1 chip takes it up to 270....
gonna struggle on a grand.....
redblock might not fit in a narrow chassis like the tiger .....
must be somebody selling their pinto.....
quote:
Originally posted by monkeyarms
SAAB turbo from a 93/95 ? Probably get a whole car for less than £1k, so engine ECU loom ect
Dont know about gearbox though.
go for the black top zetec option,
you prob wont get 200 bhp for £1000 but get it installed you will prob see 150 to 160 bhp if you run carbs etc, then save a little cash for next year
and upgrade the head and cams etc and arp bottom bolts you will see some where between 190 and 200 bhp then,
there was some cams on here for sale recently
best of luck
You might be able to find a rusty old Nissan 200sx for a grand or so which will give you the 200bhp and be a complete donor.
Other than that I would trawl the for sale sections and eBay for a used but complete set-up that somebody is selling, you might get a bargain.
Surprises me that more folk dont use the 200SX engine, super cheap donors and good power. Maybe the engine is not dimensionally/mass-ily usable? A
wealth of tuning parts and knowledge is available and the parts are cheap as chips, people regularly push 250-300 from them on stock internals as far
as I can see?
200SX 1.8T engine
[Edited on 9/7/15 by coyoteboy]
200sx won't fit in the tiger.
C20 xe
Zetec
Duratec
All will
This answer will get me abuse I am sure:
Rover V8 - 4.0L produced 188 - 190BHP out of the box with plenty of reasonable upgrades available. You could get a whole Discovery for about a grand
and sell the shell/scrap it to get some cash back.
Problem is the exhaust manifolds will cost you £1300 in stainless but you will sound like Zeus's thunderclap when going down the road.
The real question is why do you think you need 200bhp in a 550-600kg car? Even 120 bhp will outperform the vast majority of hi power tintops and
handle twice as well regadless. You can get 150bhp for relative pennies with little or no tuning with production car levels of reliability, which in a
road going kit car will be a hoot!!
If you have a lot of horsepower, you then need to be able to keep it cool, stop it, get it round corners safely at higher speeds, stop it eating
gearboxes, have appropriate more expensive tyres to cope with the power, buy extra pairs of brown under crackers etc.etc.
Boring approach? depends on your point of view. Smiles per ££ = much bigger!
quote:
Originally posted by Paul AS
The real question is why do you think you need 200bhp in a 550-600kg car? Even 120 bhp will outperform the vast majority of hi power tintops and handle twice as well regadless. You can get 150bhp for relative pennies with little or no tuning with production car levels of reliability, which in a road going kit car will be a hoot!!
If you have a lot of horsepower, you then need to be able to keep it cool, stop it, get it round corners safely at higher speeds, stop it eating gearboxes, have appropriate more expensive tyres to cope with the power, buy extra pairs of brown under crackers etc.etc.
Boring approach? depends on your point of view. Smiles per ££ = much bigger!
quote:
Originally posted by jossey
200sx won't fit in the tiger.
C20 xe
Zetec
Duratec
All will
You see - I agree with Paul AS.
Keep the power in the 100-160bhp mark and the weight around 500kg and you'll have the handling of a road-going-kart with 0-60 performance to beat
most things.
Top speed is almost irrelevant as long as it will hit 100 mph you'll never want for more (unless you get into lot's of track days) and it
will be relatively cheap to build, reliable to own and great fun 
A grand is quite a tight budget for an engine install imo.
By the time you have added exhaust, ecu, fueling, new set of belts, mounts, possibly sump and hoses, there is not much left.
My suggestion would be an st170 on bike carbs and nidiz, the proviso here is that the nodiz has an aux outlet that can switch the vct in vtec mode.
With the st170 you may be able to use the inket manifold if you can re-space the carbs.You still need a box, this power will be pushing the limits of
a type9 so worth looking at the rx8 box with a conversion plate, long thread on turbosport with a guy selling conversion kits on ebay.
Left field would be either the BMW straight 6 or lexus is200 bith come with a free gearbox (is200 is the same as the rx8), no idea if they will fit
though and you will need an ecu.
Supercharged (Eaton m45) mx5 1.8 is a goid shout.
Before you worry about max power are you Iva,ing the car as emissions are a big consideration.
If the engine is post August 1995 then forget about carbs. A zetec in an Avon is a well trodden path and a 150bhp zetec can be very cheap. A 200bhp
zetec on the other hand is anything but.
Leave the extra power for next winters upgrade.
The old Rover 2litre T series Turbo Sport engine would do 180bhp easily but it has to be the Sport version as it forged pistons.
Hi toyota 2zz from the corrola t sport 190 bhp and 186 Nm torque straight out of the box and mega reliable.......
quote:
Originally posted by Ugg10
My suggestion would be an st170 on bike carbs
Having previously run a Hayabusa-engined Westfield and a Mitsubishi turbo powered Fury, I'd avoid both bike engines and turbos for a lightweight
road car. Bike engines: one trick pony and only good for dry track days. Turbo cars - lag, lots of plumbing and weight, lots of heat to dissipate (too
complex for lightweight cars - there's a reason Caterham have never offered a turbo...)
I'm currently selling my sprint car with 186bhp from a highly-tuned Ford Zetec SE 1.6 (Sigma) and I'd go for one of them, but in slightly
detuned form. The key thing is that they rev really nicely (much better than the long-stroke chuggers that are the 1.8 and 2.0-litre Zetecs). They
also weigh very little - I can pick up my whole engine unaided - about 60kg!
You can buy a 1.6SE engine for under £100 (I paid £90 for my last one!), then add bike throttle bodies (I paid £40 for mine ages ago!), a custom inlet
manifold (see Bogg Bros or, better still, Altiss Engineering) £300 and an ECU (I run an Emerald and would recommend). With a custom exhaust (which
you'll need for any install) you'll get 130bhp, Add a couple of Shawspeed / Piper cams and you'll jump straight up to 160bhp with ease
(with a totally stock head! Gas flow it and you'll get more). All in a rev lightweight package that gives you great handling too...
Peter R
Sensible hat says k series turbo from MG ZT 160 (I got complete engine for £400) and Z and F ? remap = 210 bhp.
Silly hat says 4 cyl BMW diesel
ATB
Simon
I said volvo earlier but actually im building a middy with an mgzr 160 engine and box. Even with my emerald K6 ecu at 700 quid, the engine and trans won't cost me more than 300. I couldn't sell the whole car for 500 quid.
Kingster996 got it in 1
If you've got a tight budget then you really need to go with the gearbox you have and an engine that bolts straight on to it
That means if it's a Type 9 (or MT75) Zetec is the newest that fits with ease
You can get a BMW 2.8 and gearbox for well under £1k and will give you about 190Bhp without any modifications. Lovely smooth engine with a lot of
torque as well. Simple upgrades such as an inlet manifold from a 325 and a remapped ECU will give you a good 30Bhp more. Then again, I'm bias.
Being a straight 6, they are quite long however.
There is a lot of reverse fishermen's tails on here. I did all this for threepence etc etc. I bought my engine for £600. It was fully refurbished, reported, balanced, new pistons etc. But it didn't include cylinder heads, cam, water pump, manifolds etc, prop, gearbox. I doubt you could do any engine+ancillaries for £1k.
quote:
Originally posted by Irony
There is a lot of reverse fishermen's tails on here. I did all this for threepence etc etc. I bought my engine for £600. It was fully refurbished, reported, balanced, new pistons etc. But it didn't include cylinder heads, cam, water pump, manifolds etc, prop, gearbox. I doubt you could do any engine+ancillaries for £1k.
quote:
Originally posted by Stevedon't ace
quote:
Originally posted by Irony
There is a lot of reverse fishermen's tails on here. I did all this for threepence etc etc. I bought my engine for £600. It was fully refurbished, reported, balanced, new pistons etc. But it didn't include cylinder heads, cam, water pump, manifolds etc, prop, gearbox. I doubt you could do any engine+ancillaries for £1k.
I bought the BMW engine, gearbox and ECU for a lot less than 1k and only had to spend an additional £25 modifying the sump to fit. Do a quick search on ebay and you will find some. Of course that didn't include the engine mounts or exhaust.
Exhaust cost really shouldn't be that great - i made all mine and that I'm afraid to say is the whole point of the site.
ATB
Simon
quote:
Originally posted by Irony
There is a lot of reverse fishermen's tails on here. I did all this for threepence etc etc. I bought my engine for £600. It was fully refurbished, reported, balanced, new pistons etc. But it didn't include cylinder heads, cam, water pump, manifolds etc, prop, gearbox. I doubt you could do any engine+ancillaries for £1k.
My car has a rolling road 240BHP and the entire car cost £600! I did a fair bit of fabricating though.
quote:
Originally posted by SteveWallace
You can get a BMW 2.8 and gearbox for well under £1k and will give you about 190Bhp without any modifications. Lovely smooth engine with a lot of torque as well. Simple upgrades such as an inlet manifold from a 325 and a remapped ECU will give you a good 30Bhp more. Then again, I'm bias.
Being a straight 6, they are quite long however.
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
Exhaust cost really shouldn't be that great - i made all mine and that I'm afraid to say is the whole point of the site.
ATB
Simon
quote:
Originally posted by peterrosey
Having previously run a Hayabusa-engined Westfield and a Mitsubishi turbo powered Fury, I'd avoid both bike engines and turbos for a lightweight road car. Bike engines: one trick pony and only good for dry track days. Turbo cars - lag, lots of plumbing and weight, lots of heat to dissipate (too complex for lightweight cars - there's a reason Caterham have never offered a turbo...)
Peter R
There's no reason an appropriately turbocharged car would have overly noticeable lag.
Bike engines, when geared through the diff correctly, offer a very similar "at thewheels" torque curve and power curve, which is all the
matters at the end of the day. You'd get as much variation between car engines as you would between car and bike, but bike has that nutty high
revving feel. Personally I've got lightweight V8 so I can't shout too much about it
looking at pricing of parts (DanST & ebay) and with me doing the work and my ford mechanic mates working for beer I recon I'd be under the
£1000.
If i were to run a 1.8 zetec running bike carbs and nodiz, with porting and cams would i be looking at the 180bhp or less? there seems to be a lot
more 1.8 zetecs about with all the bits still attached, where as 2.0 zetecs seem to be bare for the same price... Plus am i right in thinking a 2.0ltr
needs the 1.8 clutch assembly fitting to make it fit the type 9 (more expense).
The 1.8 fly' is indeed the budget fly of choice for a zetec e.
There are two trains of thought.
1.8 revs much nicer and the other is there is no replacement for displacement.
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
The old Rover 2litre T series Turbo Sport engine would do 180bhp easily but it has to be the Sport version as it forged pistons.
quote:
The 1.8 fly' is indeed the budget fly of choice for a zetec e.
quote:
Originally posted by peterrosey
Having previously run a Hayabusa-engined Westfield and a Mitsubishi turbo powered Fury, I'd avoid both bike engines and turbos for a lightweight road car. Bike engines: one trick pony and only good for dry track days. Turbo cars - lag, lots of plumbing and weight, lots of heat to dissipate (too complex for lightweight cars - there's a reason Caterham have never offered a turbo...)
I'm currently selling my sprint car with 186bhp from a highly-tuned Ford Zetec SE 1.6 (Sigma) and I'd go for one of them, but in slightly detuned form. The key thing is that they rev really nicely (much better than the long-stroke chuggers that are the 1.8 and 2.0-litre Zetecs). They also weigh very little - I can pick up my whole engine unaided - about 60kg!
You can buy a 1.6SE engine for under £100 (I paid £90 for my last one!), then add bike throttle bodies (I paid £40 for mine ages ago!), a custom inlet manifold (see Bogg Bros or, better still, Altiss Engineering) £300 and an ECU (I run an Emerald and would recommend). With a custom exhaust (which you'll need for any install) you'll get 130bhp, Add a couple of Shawspeed / Piper cams and you'll jump straight up to 160bhp with ease (with a totally stock head! Gas flow it and you'll get more). All in a rev lightweight package that gives you great handling too...
Peter R
Do you want the power just to say you have 200 bhp? Assume you actually have it at what point do you actually use all 200bhp? Very rarely in most cases. For my money a stock blacktop with regular oil changes will see you right. Sensible torque curve unlike a tuned one maybe and you can bounce it on the limiter 'til the cows come home.
just finished the rebuild of the mk indy which is for sale now,
it got a 2ltr black top zetec on twin 40 webber carbs, stock engine running 160 bhp, and i must say after a drive out the other day and now getting
full throttle, this thing moves,
lights up the tyres easily in 2nd gear, with plenty of grunt, and pull very hard upto the road legal limits 
poss past it on private roads
bang for buck i dont think you can beat it, and if it goes wrong they are cheap to replace, easy upgrades with cams and head work for the 200bhp if
you need to get there,
but i think you will be surprised how well they go
After bieng at Tiger over the weekend and seeing and hearing what 150ish BHP 7's are like 200bhp will be something for a later date. Purely for
budget I am looking at a 1.8 zetec, complete engine's with aux and ecu/loom for £100 then selling the bits not needed to recoup a little cash,
compared to £250+ for a bare 2.0 zetec that'll need clutch, pumps pulley etc adding at extra cost
2.0 cams £50
Danst bike carb kit £500 ish
Nodiz £250
exhaust £250
total £1050.
I'd be doing most of the work with a little help from my ford boys at my old work and with some money back from selling bits and careful shopping
i reckon i'd be a good chunk under a grand and around the 150bhp mark.
Don't count on selling bits of the donor engine to recoup costs. My experience is the bits are worth pennies.
You can also get a 2.0 lump for jut over £100.
Keep it simple and get it tested and then have years of upgrade fun is the way I would go. 
I would not count on getting an engine with carbs through an iva unless its a pre aug 1995 engine, and they are now rare.
[Edited on 26/7/15 by big_wasa]
So a 2.0 black top with sub 100k, Now this one is a bit far but there are others and my guess is he would do a deal for cash
eBay Item
The St170 exhaust manifold is a good quality tuned length 4-2-1 that can easily be modified to fit a 7. The Avon chassis is a little different but
worth a look. eBay Item
Do the sump your self.
Same basic Denso alternator as the rest but a real one and designed to rev unlike the copy's.
eBay Item
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=195884
Oem ecu for £20.
Make up a plenum.
You could install a 2.0 for around £500 it will give around 150bhp and pass iva with no tuning.
It also gives you the 2.0 base engine to tune the next year.
Just my opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisLeary
Zetec, ITB's and cams would get you close to 200bhp I think, I'm prepared to be corrected though. That could definitely be done for less than a grand...
Chris.
F@*K me backwards and call me shurley...
Just got myself a ST170 engine, complete with all aux loom and ecu, no exhaust manifold though. 60k miles. (seen and heard running)
How much i hear you say...£100
So thats circa 150bhp as is.
1: Will running bike throttle bodies and NODIZ/MS (with vct control) pass IVA. and do i use the st injectors and blank off the bike or run the bike
infectors and blank off the st's.
2: If no to the IVA pass, will ditching the ford ECU and running NODIZ/MS on a stock engine give me a good BHP improvement.
cheers guys.
use the standard ports for car injectors and blank the bike TB injector ports.
Sounds like the one I was watching and forgot about.
Forget bike carbs for iva.
Forget switching the vvt on/off.
You will need a cat for Iva.
Cheapest, use all the donor bits for an easy Iva pass and power of around 155~170
Other option, Tb's and stand alone with vvt delete or controller. Costs soon run away.
oem
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=190440
Its a brick...
So the ST170 engine is dead. long live the standard 2.0 zetec.
Now lets try again.
2.0 zetec 92k 2000 w reg. I have a new 1.8 flywheel and clutch, new spigot bearing, type 9 gasket kit & new reverse switch. All plugs and sensors
seem to have been left on but looms been cut at each one to remove. pulleys and water pump all there. inlet and injectors look good. alternator
bracket and engine mounts still attached and the 2.0 flywheel. £120 and a little man handling into the boot.
I now need to sort out getting it hooked up, serviced and running... easy ???
I have £500 (excluding exhaust and service parts)
I trust you lot can point me in the direction of 150+ bhp, i'll be doing it all myself & free help.
Looking at R1 throttle bodies at the minute delivered for £65.
leaving £435.
what next
What's up with the st170 ?
not what he said, video he sent was of a silver st, got there to collect it and he showed me the blue st it came out of with front end damage, said it had been listed in error and could only supply main block and head.