amalyos
|
| posted on 16/9/14 at 09:47 PM |
|
|
Steering UJ caused my crash, be aware!!
On Saturday, I was taking part in the 750MC RGB race, during the race I had a steering failure and went into the armco at around 60mph.
Luckily I got away with a headache from hitting the cage. The MNR chassis did a magnificent job and the driver cell remained intact.
After investigating the video and parts I discovered the reason for my loss of steering. It was down to an incorrectly manufactured GP4 steering UJ.
The pinch bolt that should locate into the rack shaft groove, is out of position and doesn't locate. This means the only thing stopping it
sliding off the shaft was the clamping force. This wasn't a major issue when I had the paddle shift, as I was continuously pulling the steering
wheel against the paddles, but when I changed to the stick shift, I must have been pulling the steering wheel whilst driving, which eventually pulled
the UJ off the rack!! The 2 freeze frames from my video show that the steering wheel had moved further from the column just before the crash.
Anyone who has a GP4 forged UJ should check them. I'd hate this to happen to anyone else, I was very lucky it happened where it did, even though
I've still written off the chassis 
Please check your UJs!!
Steve
 
UJ1
 
UJ2
 
Steering wheel comparison
http://stevembuild.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
|
rdodger
|
| posted on 16/9/14 at 10:03 PM |
|
|
Sounds like a lucky escape!
Was the upper part of the column not fixed?
I know no amount of pulling on my wheel will pull on the UJ's. I use an mx5 column and I imagine the Sierra one is the same?
|
|
|
snapper
|
| posted on 16/9/14 at 10:09 PM |
|
|
Fled your ok
New pants and pin ( or wire lock) the joints
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
|
|
|
owelly
|
| posted on 16/9/14 at 10:14 PM |
|
|
I have used several steering u/js on my car over the past few years during its 'development' and quite a few don't use the pinch
bolt to stop the joint pulling off the splines. In fact, some of the splined sections don't have the notched cut-out. I just make sure the
column can't move too far!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
|
|
|
gavin174
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 05:58 AM |
|
|
Steve,
if its a manufacturing fault, surely you have comeback with the supplier/manufacturer.
there must be 100's of these fitted on kitcar/racecars and this must be a dodgy batch!!
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 06:33 AM |
|
|
I think you will find you have misidentified the problem, it is an issue that has been around for a long time.
What is actually wrong is the bolt you have used to pinch the joint is unsuitable.
On tightening the nut becomes thread bound before sufficient clamping force is exerted on the splines, as a result fretting starts to
occur the splines wear and the situation becomes worse.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 06:39 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
Steve,
if its a manufacturing fault, surely you have comeback with the supplier/manufacturer.
there must be 100's of these fitted on kitcar/racecars and this must be a dodgy batch!!
No different from the millions of similar splined joints used on production cars since the mid-1960's.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
r1_pete
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 06:51 AM |
|
|
Really glad you're OK, and that only welded and folded metal has suffered.
But, you have named a product, and blamed it for an accident on an open forum, if you were the MD of the company who manufactured this component
reading this, what would you do?? I have no axe to grind here just don't want to see your problems get any worse.
BT makes a good point and there are many other factors at play here, tightening torques, steering column location etc. etc.
|
|
|
Andy B
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 06:52 AM |
|
|
With reference to the wrong selection of bolt I am not sure we would agree having had multiple issues with multiple suppliers of this very same joint.
The simple fact is that it is a copy of a copy of a copy, manufactured in countries where quality control of both material and machining is dubious to
say the least. It is possible to lay half a dozen joints side by side and not find two machined the same.
On the G1 Sabres we had loads of problems caused by premature wear ( in one case after one qualifying session from new) the joints appear to be cast
from chocolate, the uj's themselves literally lose all integrity after a couple of outings and the bolt location is drilled off in all sorts of
positions.
I can assure you we tried all sorts of tricks to try and solve the issues and it most definitely was not an issue caused by bolt selection.
In the end we adopted the old adage of - if it looks like shite and smells like shite, then it probably is shite and machined our own from scratch
|
|
|
gavin174
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 06:53 AM |
|
|
If the hole for the locating bolt is in the wrong position, and the bolt doesn't sit in the groove on the steering rack spline......l
IT doesn't make a difference what bolt you use.
http://www.essexkitcarclub.com
|
|
|
r1_pete
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 07:11 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by gavin174
If the hole for the locating bolt is in the wrong position, and the bolt doesn't sit in the groove on the steering rack spline......l
IT doesn't make a difference what bolt you use.
If the joint in the top picture was sold as an equivalent part number to the middle picture, yes the bolt position is wrong, but only if sold as an
equivalent.
The bolt does matter, too much plain shank and you run out of tightening ability, too coarse a thread and you loose clamping force, a fine thread will
excerpt much more clamping force than a coarse thread tightened to the same torque.
|
|
|
Jon Ison
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 08:03 AM |
|
|
If Im understanding correctly (probably not) did the bolt pass through the groove in the shaft ? If not then It wouldn't have got fitted to my
car, if the bolt would pass through without the aid of the groove in the shaft then it also wouldn't have got fitted to my car, maybe I'm
miles off ?
Not trying to be controversial just as I think I see it.
|
|
|
Stot
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 08:40 AM |
|
|
I noticed this on my RD joint so I milled the hole to the correct position so the bolt would be in the spline groove and then welded washers onto the
outside edges to keep the bolt in the correct position.
Cheers
Stot
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 11:55 AM |
|
|
Looks like the cheaper pressed units will work better than the cast ones.
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
MK9R
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 02:10 PM |
|
|
Im Astounded by some of the replies to this thread!! Steve put this out her to warn people. It wasnt fitted incorrectly or with the wrong bolt, or
lose or thread bound. These things are checked by not only the driver but safety scruitineers. Infact the exact issue of the correct bolts being used
has been checked by the scruitineers on several occasions this season. The item is a piece of crap, it was made incorrectly and unfortunately not
noticed by steve, why would you be checking something like this when you bought it new, well that is unless someone had documented their misfortune
and you had happened to read this.
This is a warning check your uj's instead of critising. Mine are going in the bin and I will be purchasing some safe ones from AB
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 02:21 PM |
|
|
Andy - do you details/prices on your ones please?
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
DW100
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 02:23 PM |
|
|
Yes these do appear to be poor quality copies. It is difficult to tell just from the photos but the middle picture appears to show a forged steel
joint and the top one a cast iron item.
I would also be looking at the steering column design that allows you to pull on the splines.
If the scrutineers have had cause to check the pinch bolt design have there been previous issues?
[Edited on 17/9/14 by DW100]
|
|
|
MK9R
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 02:26 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by DW100
Yes these do appear to be poor quality copies. It is difficult to tell just from the photos but the middle picture appears to show a forged steel
joint and the top one a cast iron item.
I would also be looking at the steering column design that allows you to pull on the splines.
If the scrutineers have had cause to check the pinch bolt design have there been previous issues?
[Edited on 17/9/14 by DW100]
Not in the 750mc but there have been a couple of cases of failing in the past year or so. Not sure what the failure was though.
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
|
|
|
Andy B
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 02:56 PM |
|
|
Hi all as requested I have posted up full details and pictures of the joints we had manufactured on our facebook page at
https://www.facebook.com/abperformanceltd
If someone wants to put the piccies up here feel free - I never mastered it
We had these joints manufactured for our Sabre and subsequently our Arion race cars and keep a small quantity on the shelf but in light of Steves
recent accident I am more than happy to get more machined if people want some
best regards
Andy
ps If I screwed the linky thing up just search normally 
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 02:59 PM |
|
|
https://www.facebook.com/abperformanceltd
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
Andy B
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 03:05 PM |
|
|
Thanks for that Loggyboy - it would appear I cocked my link up
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 03:05 PM |
|
|
The primary purpose of the groove is to ensure the male and female halves of the joint are engaged to the correct depth before the bolt is inserted.
It is the clamping force that holds the male and female parts.
On some vehicles ( for example Chrylser Sunbeam & Avenger also Triumphs) that have a short shaft with at one end an a male spline at the other
the splined part of the shaft didn't have a groove but instead had a machined flat that allowed for the shaft length to be adjusted and also the
the shaft to be change without disturbing either the rack or the upper steering column.
In the old days when this type couplings were first used on steering racks the bolt would be 5/16" with a thick washer and a spring washer
under a plain nut. If the washers were omitted the nut would run out of thread when tightened and the splines would not be nipped up.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
britishtrident
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 03:08 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
Im Astounded by some of the replies to this thread!! Steve put this out her to warn people. It wasnt fitted incorrectly or with the wrong bolt, or
lose or thread bound. These things are checked by not only the driver but safety scruitineers. Infact the exact issue of the correct bolts being used
has been checked by the scruitineers on several occasions this season. The item is a piece of crap, it was made incorrectly and unfortunately not
noticed by steve, why would you be checking something like this when you bought it new, well that is unless someone had documented their misfortune
and you had happened to read this.
This is a warning check your uj's instead of critising. Mine are going in the bin and I will be purchasing some safe ones from AB
You clearly don't understand the issue.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 03:15 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
Thanks for that Loggyboy - it would appear I cocked my link up
No problem.
They look a work of art... I guess they aren't that cheap to make?
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
MK9R
|
| posted on 17/9/14 at 03:22 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
Im Astounded by some of the replies to this thread!! Steve put this out her to warn people. It wasnt fitted incorrectly or with the wrong bolt, or
lose or thread bound. These things are checked by not only the driver but safety scruitineers. Infact the exact issue of the correct bolts being used
has been checked by the scruitineers on several occasions this season. The item is a piece of crap, it was made incorrectly and unfortunately not
noticed by steve, why would you be checking something like this when you bought it new, well that is unless someone had documented their misfortune
and you had happened to read this.
This is a warning check your uj's instead of critising. Mine are going in the bin and I will be purchasing some safe ones from AB
You clearly don't understand the issue.
Hahahahaha, Obviously........
Please introduce yourself next time we are all leant over the cars in the paddock, I didnt realise you were there last time
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
|
|
|
