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Author: Subject: Beyond hacked off
nick205

posted on 30/10/16 at 03:49 PM Reply With Quote
Beyond hacked off

I'll be honest and say that I'm finding it rather difficult to convey just how absolutely f8cked off I am. Last year we bought a 57 plate 1.9TDI VW Touran for my wife. Having had a number VAG TDIs I was happy with the choice of car and planned to service it myself as I have done with many others.

For many years I've removed engine oil "topside" using a Pela 6000 oil extractor. Easy, clean and IMHO effective. On trying to do this with the Touran it appears that VW fit an oil "baffle" plate in the sump. This baffle plate prevents the Pela extractor hose entering the sump and therefore seems to force you into raising the vehicle, removing the plastic engine under-tray and draining the oil using the sump plug.

Mess - time - danger...FAFF!!!

I'm so angry I'm actually considering getting rid of the car

I do appreciate others may see this as a small thing to worry about, but I just don't understand what VW feel they're doing






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StevieB

posted on 30/10/16 at 04:26 PM Reply With Quote
I think VAG are top of the pile when it comes to making things awkward enough to try and force main dealer servicing for everything down to headlight bulb replacement.
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ianhurley20

posted on 30/10/16 at 04:29 PM Reply With Quote
I have fallen out with VW over another reason but the same car Nick. You will find baffles in a number of modern cars, my own 1.6hdi Citroen and as that engine fits in fords I guess that car as well. Some of the Audi diesels no longer have a dipstick, or a sump plug. I think its manufacturers trying to ensure their dealer network has a regular supply of customers!





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prawnabie

posted on 30/10/16 at 04:32 PM Reply With Quote
If the car has a sump plug, maybe its concievable that the engine was designed for the oil to be removed from there and you have just been lucky with the dipstick tube method on other cars before. I think you need to get a grip as you posted about this a number of weeks ago, if has been eating you for that long then you may have other issues to deal with before servicing your car?!?!?!
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britishtrident

posted on 30/10/16 at 05:08 PM Reply With Quote
There is a system available that fits an coupling available that fits http://www.stahlbus.com/products/en/oil-drain-valve/

You could even connect it to the Pela or an electric extractor pump.





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ash_hammond

posted on 30/10/16 at 05:17 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by prawnabie
If the car has a sump plug, maybe its concievable that the engine was designed for the oil to be removed from there and you have just been lucky with the dipstick tube method on other cars before. I think you need to get a grip as you posted about this a number of weeks ago, if has been eating you for that long then you may have other issues to deal with before servicing your car?!?!?!


LMFAO!







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PorkChop

posted on 30/10/16 at 05:19 PM Reply With Quote
Look at it this way;

bit of faff servicing (which you don't have to do yourself - unless your missus had a gun to your head!)

or

knackered engine because the oil pickup wasn't the best



Just be glad you're not trying to change the sump on a Clio, which involves raising the engine/dropping the subframe to create enough space around the oil pump to remove it!

[Edited on 30/10/16 by PorkChop]

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wylliezx9r

posted on 30/10/16 at 05:40 PM Reply With Quote
Wow first world problems. Just be grateful you don't live in Alepo, then you really would be "beyond hacked off"





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Toprivetguns

posted on 30/10/16 at 05:43 PM Reply With Quote
The frustrations will continue to grow and grow. If you follow Tesla, cars will need minimal servicing and just major component changes under warranty plus software upgrades. This means no more fettling for the likes of us lot. It depends what you want.

To be honest we as customers have brought this own ourselves. We buy cars and yearn for quality and reliability, however dealerships face the problem of making no money due to these factors. Oil changes, brake pad changes and MOTs are their bread and butter and this will only compound itself with electric hand brakes becoming the norm, hence needing specialist equipment etc.....





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sdh2903

posted on 30/10/16 at 06:02 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Toprivetguns
The frustrations will continue to grow and grow. If you follow Tesla, cars will need minimal servicing and just major component changes under warranty plus software upgrades. This means no more fettling for the likes of us lot. It depends what you want.



It will be donkeys before that's remotely true. I work (as you do I beleive) on commercial aircraft. When the 787 was entered into service it was all minimal maintenence, just software, it will hardly ever be in the hangar blah blah. Nonsense since its intro I've not worked as many hours!! And it's still paying a yearly visit to the hangars for checks.

As for those oil suckers I've never really liked them anyway. It's not really a hardship to drain a sump below and at least you know it's definitely all out. And it's only once a year after all.

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adithorp

posted on 30/10/16 at 06:45 PM Reply With Quote
I just hope when you get the undertray off, you find a hex' plug and not VAGs new design requiring a special socket... or you might have a full on meltdown.





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Irony

posted on 30/10/16 at 07:51 PM Reply With Quote

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Nickp

posted on 30/10/16 at 08:56 PM Reply With Quote
Is it really that hard to jack it up once a year to drop the oil? Surely you'll have to get it off the ground to do its yearly brake service anyway, as I do with the wifes similarly engined Seat Ibiza? You may even find other issues that need addressing, that can't be seen from under the bonnet
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mcramsay

posted on 30/10/16 at 08:58 PM Reply With Quote
Surely money you would lose changing the car is far more than the cost of an oil change? Personally I would much prefer to buy a car with a dealer service history than one done by the owner.
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ashg

posted on 30/10/16 at 10:27 PM Reply With Quote
Our Tiguan is easy to service. It's so high it doesn't need jacking up to get the under tray off. Took me less than 30mins to do the last service. The only thing it's been back to the dealer for is a leaking rocker cover gasket. I could have changed it but it was under warranty. Now if you want to talk about difficult cars to service my Porsche Cayman S is up there. it's mid engine can't get the spark plugs out without the rear wheels off and arch liners out, no dipstick no visible water resevoir everything on a sensor. Air filter and belt changes require pushing the seats all the way forward removing the carpet and bulkhead behind the seats and having triple jointed arms. I can do it all but, 1. the car is only a year old and I want to keep up the service history, 2. I would rather spend my time doing fun things other than fixing daily hacks. So I suck it up and pay. If it goes wrong I look at them and say well your the guys that do all the maintenance on it fix it now please. The best thing about the Porsche that ultimately won out over all the other fun cars I was looking at was the 100k 5year warranty!





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Shooter63

posted on 30/10/16 at 10:28 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
I'll be honest and say that I'm finding it rather difficult to convey just how absolutely f8cked off I am. Last year we bought a 57 plate 1.9TDI VW Touran for my wife. Having had a number VAG TDIs I was happy with the choice of car and planned to service it myself as I have done with many others.

For many years I've removed engine oil "topside" using a Pela 6000 oil extractor. Easy, clean and IMHO effective. On trying to do this with the Touran it appears that VW fit an oil "baffle" plate in the sump. This baffle plate prevents the Pela extractor hose entering the sump and therefore seems to force you into raising the vehicle, removing the plastic engine under-tray and draining the oil using the sump plug.

Mess - time - danger...FAFF!!!

I'm so angry I'm actually considering getting rid of the car

I do appreciate others may see this as a small thing to worry about, but I just don't understand what VW feel they're doing


A friend of mine suffered the same illness you are going through, I watched him change very much like you seem to be, it nearly all ended very tragically, can I suggest that you go to speak to a professional , they will be able to help you, he is now fully fit healthy and driving.

Shooter

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mark chandler

posted on 31/10/16 at 12:05 AM Reply With Quote
My XC70 has no dipstick push buttons and it shows you oil level on the dashboard, you cannot suck the oil out the filler however up in the air and within 5 minutes engine oil draining out the sump bung.

while this was going on replaced the front and rear diff oils, Haldex fluid and checked the gaiters for wear and had a good look around.

It's easy to just work from the top but to actually keep on top of maintenance you should be underneath it anyway....

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907

posted on 31/10/16 at 06:30 AM Reply With Quote
Cut an access hole in the undertray in line with the sump plug and cover it with an, er, cover plate.

In future you will be able to change the oil without removing the undertray.



My car doesn't have a dip stick (apart from behind the wheel) but a company in Poland makes an
aftermarket universal one that's for sale on eBay.

There are ways around every problem, otherwise hedgehogs wouldn't breed.

Paul G





Member of the Suttol Owners Club, the MX5 Owners Club and the BMMC

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nick205

posted on 31/10/16 at 09:14 AM Reply With Quote
Points noted chaps and thank you for taking the time to reply.

Yes...working "topside" can be viewed as lazy, but the speed and cleanliness cannot be denied. Granted you still need to get underneath to check other items such as drive shaft bellows, suspension bushes etc. I don't disagree with this. Personally I have a local independent VAG specialist who I use for jobs I can't do, including MOTs. I know the mechanics there on first name terms and they're well aware of my desire to carry out most service work myself. As a result when they have the car they do check the parts that I may not have got to. They have the benefit of 2 post lifts, air tools and brand familiarity. They're also honest about what may or does need doing and the costs involved.

Different people will have different ideas about the merits (or not) of oil extraction - the web forums are full of them discussing it. For me personally though oil extraction works fine - clean/fast/easy - all good IMHO. The fact that the extracted oil ends up neatly contained and easily disposed of (local household recycling centre) is a real bonus as far as I'm concerned. With the forthcoming loss of my garage service work will be done in the street outside my house. I don't have the luxury of space for car ramps so I do what I can my way.

I've discovered oil drain taps http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/. Removing VWs plastic engine under tray and fitting one to the sump is a possibility. I'd then cut an access hole into the plastic under tray to enable an oil drain without the need to remove the under tray again. For me personally it's far from ideal (still very unhappy with VWs incosistant engine sump assembly), but may provide a route forward.

Finally...yes, my desire to get rid of the car may seem too much, but I also have rather an issue with the lack of spare wheel and VWs inclusion of tyre sealing gunk instead. I am well aware that other manufacturers do the same and that eventually many if not all cars will end up the same. However changing a wheel is easy, fast and gets you back on the road quickly.






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nick205

posted on 31/10/16 at 09:15 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 907

There are ways around every problem, otherwise hedgehogs wouldn't breed.

Paul G


LMAO - how very true






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David Jenkins

posted on 31/10/16 at 11:01 AM Reply With Quote
I've said many times on this forum how much I'm unimpressed with VAG cars - I won't repeat all the details as that would be boring, but suffice to say that I found problems with a Golf Mk4 that STILL appear on later Seat and Skoda cars that use the same mechanical bits. They don't seem to grasp the concept of finding a problem and making sure it doesn't happen again.

I've owned a lot of Toyotas, and they're good but not perfect - no car can be - but problems I saw in earlier models were fixed properly in later ones.





The older I get, the better I was...

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prawnabie

posted on 31/10/16 at 11:13 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Points noted chaps and thank you for taking the time to reply.

Yes...working "topside" can be viewed as lazy, but the speed and cleanliness cannot be denied. Granted you still need to get underneath to check other items such as drive shaft bellows, suspension bushes etc. I don't disagree with this. Personally I have a local independent VAG specialist who I use for jobs I can't do, including MOTs. I know the mechanics there on first name terms and they're well aware of my desire to carry out most service work myself. As a result when they have the car they do check the parts that I may not have got to. They have the benefit of 2 post lifts, air tools and brand familiarity. They're also honest about what may or does need doing and the costs involved.

Different people will have different ideas about the merits (or not) of oil extraction - the web forums are full of them discussing it. For me personally though oil extraction works fine - clean/fast/easy - all good IMHO. The fact that the extracted oil ends up neatly contained and easily disposed of (local household recycling centre) is a real bonus as far as I'm concerned. With the forthcoming loss of my garage service work will be done in the street outside my house. I don't have the luxury of space for car ramps so I do what I can my way.

I've discovered oil drain taps http://www.quickvalve.co.uk/. Removing VWs plastic engine under tray and fitting one to the sump is a possibility. I'd then cut an access hole into the plastic under tray to enable an oil drain without the need to remove the under tray again. For me personally it's far from ideal (still very unhappy with VWs incosistant engine sump assembly), but may provide a route forward.

Finally...yes, my desire to get rid of the car may seem too much, but I also have rather an issue with the lack of spare wheel and VWs inclusion of tyre sealing gunk instead. I am well aware that other manufacturers do the same and that eventually many if not all cars will end up the same. However changing a wheel is easy, fast and gets you back on the road quickly.



Whilst your method of saving yourself money whilst befriending the people who can do the bits you can't is commendable, it sounds like your situation is going to get worse and if these small problems are causing you so much grief, that to is going to increase.

Most of the problems you are encountering are classic "I want a cheap perfect second hand car" issues. Your spec could be achieved (spare wheel) A warranty given (door lock) and a service plan sold with a new car would eradicate all of them so perhaps for your sanity an new car would be better for you?

Another thing to consider too is that if you are not doing a complete job whilst "servicing" the car and there is something dangerously wrong that you can't check, and it is a few months till MOT time until the pros can, how would you feel if you put your family's life in peril?

On here we all want to save money and all feel capable of doing the work, but you have to ask yourself if it is worth it in your case.

[Edited on 31/10/16 by prawnabie]

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garyo

posted on 31/10/16 at 02:29 PM Reply With Quote
If you think it's bad now... in five years you're going to get home from work to find that your self-driving vehicle has popped itself down to the local dealers to treat itself to a new set of brake pads because it was feeling a bit down. It'll be like having a second wife!
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nick205

posted on 31/10/16 at 04:52 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by garyo
If you think it's bad now... in five years you're going to get home from work to find that your self-driving vehicle has popped itself down to the local dealers to treat itself to a new set of brake pads because it was feeling a bit down. It'll be like having a second wife!



Sadly I suspect you're not far off the truth






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Irony

posted on 31/10/16 at 05:27 PM Reply With Quote
My father spent 50 years being a mechanic and engineer. Claims to have rebuilt 1000 engines of different varieties and has some great engineering stories. Now he is unable to service his new car.
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