aplmack
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 posted on 9/5/03 at 04:49 PM |
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Bike engines last?
Looking into building a car and trying to decide on car or bike power. I have read all the other posts but am dubious on how long a bike engine will
last if I use it in a car . I doubt I will ever take it on a track as I dont live anywhere near one but do enjoy country lanes. What range of weights
do people currently have and what do they go like when you get a passenger?
Cheers
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 9/5/03 at 05:16 PM |
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I don't think anyone can answer the "how long will it last" as well as you can with a car engine because the BEC scene is
comparatively new. However, so far engines seem to be pretty reliable, particularly blade engines, but also ZX9s seem OK, and busa's as long as
they are dry sumped although there's not as many examples of the last two as there are blades on the road. The only one that has been a little
suspect out of the popular choices is the Blackbird, which has suffered oul starvation issues unless dry sumped, and even then a couple have gone
bang.
Personally, Ive done 8 track days in mine plus about 4000 road miles, and have several friends who have done similar without problems.
I have blown one engine, but that was entirely my fault as I caught the sump plug on a speed bump just before going on track, which decided it would
make a bid for freedom whilst on track and blew an engine due to no oil, which would have blown a car engine in the same way so not really
relavent!
I guess at the end of the day it depends on how you are going to use it, I'm not sure one would cope that well with say 20k miles a year if it
was a daily driver, but as a fun/track car doing only a few thousand a year, they seem fine.
Regarding weights, mine weighs about 420kgs wet, and yes it does noticably slow you down with a passenger on board, but its still bloody quick! The
difference as I say is noticable, but it doesnt make it any less fun to drive, and so virtually every time I go out on track, Ive got someone tagging
along for the ride as its not a huge difference.
Chris
[Edited on 9/5/03 by ChrisGamlin]
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Stu16v
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| posted on 9/5/03 at 10:28 PM |
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Having come from the Autograss racing scene, I would say that if the car is going to be 'ragged' on a regular basis,  the bike engine
has got to be the winner. Car engines, whether standard or tuned to give comparable output in such a light car, would cost you a lot more money for
the same performance. And they wouldnt last as long either. And then you have the problem of a crap gearbox on a car motor, unless you spend yet more
bucks......
Stu.
Dont just build it.....make it!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 10/5/03 at 04:48 AM |
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Ditto, only one winner.........the little buggers (with proper care) are dam near bullet proof.
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aplmack
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| posted on 10/5/03 at 08:33 AM |
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Cheers for all the replies guys. Now got to put my degree to some use and build a a chassis as light as possible! One last thing though, the
sequential boxes - need to use the clutch all the time or not? (as you can tell I have never been on a bike and am more familiar with jet engines - I
could build one of them no problem!)
I am looking forward to hearing the noise of a bike engine!!!! (eventually)
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 10/5/03 at 11:59 AM |
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Yup can upchange without a clutch, just lift off and bang the lever across, though downchanges need the clutch still.
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ceebmoj
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| posted on 10/5/03 at 06:56 PM |
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palmack
hi i sem to remember a car was developed in the us caled the patriot witch used a gas trubine for power do you know any thing about this.
all thow i would imagen that this not praticale but i would be intrested to learn more
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aplmack
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| posted on 11/5/03 at 10:05 PM |
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Yeah I rememebr seeing a car powered by a gas turbine. It used it like a helicopter with all the the thrust going to power a shaft (also like a power
station). Rolls Royce are using marine versions of their Trent engines to power cruise ships (and I mean really big ships). Jet engines generally get
more efficient the bigger you make them in terms of HP per ton so a small engine is not much cop. You can get pretty powerful starter engines (I saw a
100HP Jag starter in a gokart).
Basically the main problem with jet engines is they run best in quite a small RPM range and it is only engines like military engines that are designed
to be throttled. Helicopters use constant speed engines and use pitch changes to vary lift and some jet props also use a variable pitch blade. The
best way to do this in a car is to use a CVT like in Nissans but I am not sure this will take take 800+ HP.
Most small planes up to 1000HP (racing planes) use piston engines so they can have fixed props and as you get tot he 800HP + range you then switch to
jets.
(getting a bit long now)
Basically if you want a jet car get hold of a small helicopter engine e.g. Turbomeca and power your wheel of the shaft. This will produce about
950sHP and I reckon could fit in something long like the Dodge Viper. It would also be loud, run on just about any flamable liquid (perfume to jet
fuel)and would probably weigh less than the 7 or 8 litre that the Viper already has but you will need a hell of a gearbox and a big gas tank!
Sorry for the length but I got a bit carried away! If anyone has the money to start one I would be more than happy to help!!!!!
PS I dont think using a jet exhaust to power the car would pass the SVA!
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Viper
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| posted on 11/5/03 at 10:09 PM |
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I remember seeing a hot rod with a helicopter turbine in it..they had a gearbox to reduce the revs to the wheels, i think the engine spun at
something like 32000 rpm...
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aplmack
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| posted on 11/5/03 at 10:27 PM |
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YOu got me wanting to get hold of an old helicopter engine now to put in a car!
Dammit I was going to use a ZX9R or a blade engine!
Just another note - jet engines are incredibly reliable - thats why we put em in helicopters but I am not sure on the torque as they get most of there
power from the fact that they spin at many tens of thousands of RPM - but I suppose thats what a gearbox is for although you may have to slip the
clutch a little (will 100HP not good!). All in all better suited to a high speed motorway muncher than a country lane thrasher I think!
Does anyone fancy having a go at fitting a 1.4m long, 0.48m wide, 150kg 590sHP engine into a Locost?
have a look here:
Turbomeca info
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UncleFista
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 12:59 AM |
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If anyone sees one of these in a breakers...
Gimme a shout 
click here
[Edited on 20/5/03 by UncleFista]
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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James
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| posted on 20/5/03 at 01:22 PM |
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ChrisW- new section needed: HEC (Helicopter Engined Car)
Cheers,
James
P.S. For goodness sake don't let Hicost read this thread- he'll want two!
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