The wheelbase is 96". Height ground to top of windshield is 39". That's with 5" ride height. Wheel height is 22".
Please let me know what you think.
Rescued attachment La-Bala-Aug-4,-2003.jpg
This weekend was good. I made a lot of progress on my car. Here is a photo of it. There are still misc braces and brackets missing, but it is close to
being ready to move on to the body.... I'm looking forward to that and at the same time NOT looking forward to it!
The wheelbase is 96". Height ground to top of windshield is 39". That's with 5" ride height. Wheel height is 22".
Please let me know what you think.
Rescued attachment La-Bala-Aug-4,-2003.jpg
WELL DONE THAT MAN!!!!!!
Looks great Steve
Ian
Looking good!
I bet you can't wait to get working on the skin of it now? 
Terry
ps. how high is the top of engine from ground?
[Edited on 4/8/03 by Spyderman]
I am really dreading the bodywork. I have a very bad back which can put me in bed for months at a time if I make one wrong move, caution will be the
better part of valor in this case.
Engine height: I think it's around 26", Other people are using 4AGE with 5" ride height) but when I get home I'll measure it to
the top of the Oil Filler cap and also to the top of the intake and let you know.
I have a lot more photos of the car taken from various angles posted on my website. See them here:
http://www.newtier.com/graber/mid-engine/diarymain.html
[Edited on 8/4/03 by sgraber]
Steve,
Looking good (although I'm not so sure about the new avatar ). I'll be cutting and welding soon too. My engine and gearbox are
sitting in the garage now and I've found a set of front suspension uprights, rack and coulm that another builder has surplus to his
requirements.
Terry,
Assuming Steve's 16-valve 4A-GE isn't too much different to my 20-valve, the top of the engine is about 850mm from the ground - say 34"
in the old money.
Dominic
Ha! Steve replied while I was still composing my reply.
My figure of 34" is based on level driveshafts and 24" diameter wheel/tyre combo - ie driveshafts 12" off the ground. Also, by my
measurements, the front of the package (eg clearance for the extractors) is ~550mm (22" from the axle line.
Dominic
Hey Dominic! Don't care for my ugly mug eh?
My feelings are hurt.... not.
In anycase, my driveshafts are not level when the car is at ride-height. I didn't think that this would be a problem. Is it?! If so, I can simply
redo the motor mounts to raise it an inch or two. But I much prefer to keep the engine height lower.
quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
Don't care for my ugly mug eh?
quote:
In anycase, my driveshafts are not level when the car is at ride-height. I didn't think that this would be a problem. Is it?!
Then again, the 20-valve motor does appear to be a bit bigger. Looking good. Look forward to hearing reports of it moving under its own steam.
Regarding the drive shafts, I think it is better if they aren't level at normal ride height. You can wear the joints in one place if they
aren't oscillating (not sure if this describes the motion correctly) much. In real life driving on bumpy roads this probably isn't much of a
problem though. So as long as the joint angles don't get too extreme at the limit of travel you should be OK.
Steve....looking good.....very satisfying isn't it?
Now the body......
Steve, would it be possible to add bracing like the following to your chassis?
It would stiffen the cockpit area quite a lot I think. Are you planning on welding in a steel floor or rivetting in an ali one. If you are going ali
maybe it would be worth putting some 3/4" square diagonals in the floor area. At the very least it will stop the ali drumming which is really
annoying.
Regarding your rear wheels I would probably go with a 1/8 or 1/4 spacer. It is amazing how much tires can deflect under load. Also I am sure there
will be a little bit of deflection in the suspension. Its amazing that even really stiff TransAm chassis deflect under load. I spoke to a criew chief
who said they had some really bad handling problems caused by the swaybars locking up in their bushings due to chassis flex. They went with a floating
system to avoid this.
What spring rates are you using? Looks like the rocker ratio is 1:1 Have you plotted out the spring compression as you move the wheel vertically? Did
you go for a rising rate or static rate setup?
Ok, thanks guys for the kind words. It's nice to know that at least it doesn't 'LOOK' like it's going to suck.
Here are most of the answers to previous questions.
The wheels are Panther 16x7-1/2 with a 5-7/8" backspacing. (feel free to convert to mm. Since I am a back country 'merican, I never was
lerned that shyte in school.) They were 'Freebie'. The tires are BFGoodrich EuroRadial T/A 40H. Size 205/40 R16 75H. I am sure that it will
be a very harsh ride with this little bit of sidewall rubber. The tires are used and abused, so I will need to get a new set anyways. Khumo or
Sumitomo I think.
LMP-man, Your drawing of the additional bracing is almost exactly what I have planned. (it's already cut, but not welded in yet.) I also intend
to add triangulation across the main footwell compartments.
I am using 18ga steel floor panels, continuously bonded to the frame with 3M VHB epoxy tape. There will be no welding or rivets for any structural
panels. I am going to trust the VHB tape. I will gladly report on it's effectiveness in the future.
The steel paneling will be used to enclose the passenger compartment. Notice the package shelf behind the seats. That will all be
'steeled'.
There will be a removable engine undertray (carbon fiber, or ali?) attached to my engine bay brace that will completely cover the back under-half of
the car from the fuel tank back. There will be cutouts for the oilpan and other vents, but essentially the car will be completely flat bottomed with a
rear extractor... ground effects hopefully.
The Bellcranks - I am using the Yamaha R6 bellcranks that came with the stock Yamaha R6 shocks I bought off of eBay for $30 each. They are 3-1/2"
x 2-11/16" The fronts are definitely rising rate. The rears are.... just stuck on there for now! I intend to refine the spring/bellcrank setup
once I get the car rolling. The stock Yamaha springs are #420. The shocks are fully adjustable.
Engine Height:
Ground to oil cap - 27-1/4"
Ground to top of intake - 28-1/2"
Dominic: Distance from axle line to front of engine(extractor you say?) - 28" (Old world)
I hope this info is useful to someone.
Graber
Dominic - how did you know I was naked!? Actually, I was simply adjusting my webcam for a better angle of me with my autoparts.... kinky!
uuuuuhhhhh. Just kidding!
quote:Hmmm, I'll run around my engine with the tape measure tonight when I get home. The height difference is very interesting because I didn't think that the 20-valve was that much taller. With respect to the "extractors" I mentioned - the 20-valve 4A-GE comes from the factory with nice, tubular, 4-into-1 extractors.
Originally posted by sgraberEngine Height:
Ground to oil cap - 27-1/4"
Ground to top of intake - 28-1/2"
Dominic: Distance from axle line to front of engine(extractor you say?) - 28" (Old world)
quote:OK, now I just feel dirty
Dominic - how did you know I was naked!?
quote:
I am using 18ga steel floor panels, continuously bonded to the frame with 3M VHB epoxy tape. There will be no welding or rivets for any structural panels. I am going to trust the VHB tape. I will gladly report on it's effectiveness in the future.
quote:
Dominic - how did you know I was naked!?
Steve,
It is looking great and coming on well!
Hope you don't mind me making a few observations?
First is the clutch and brake lines. In the one photo it shows the clutch line radiused around the outside of the passenger box. Although I realise
you have the box sill area that can be utilised, I think it would be better that the clutch and brake lines went through the passenger cell and not
around it. This ensures there are no corners or sharp edges that a line can be crushed against. What is more worrying is that the lines at the front
pass along side the offside wheel and would be prone to stone damage! Extreme I know but I am not aware of any production car that does this. All
cars I have worked on have the pipes passing inside the passenger cell.
A bit too late now to change things, but I would have packed the clutch and brake master cylinders forward and extended the push rods instead of
cutting away the lower screen mount.
And yes I think you will need spacers with those wheels. As has be stated you can get quite a lot of tyre deflection when cornering. The tyre will
roll quite a bit.
Also if you change the tyres there is no guarantee that the next one will fit the same way.
Why are you going for steel floors over Ali as you are going to bondit on?
Dominic,
Is your measurement to the top of the air intake?
Wish I'd remembered to measure mine whilst it was on the ground!
Terry
[Edited on 5/8/03 by Spyderman]
quote:
Originally posted by Spyderman
Dominic,
Is your measurement to the top of the air intake?
Wish I'd remembered to measure mine whilst it was on the ground!
quote:
Originally posted by Spyderman
First is the clutch and brake lines. ....... I think it would be better that the clutch and brake lines went through the passenger cell and not around it. ..... the lines at the front pass along side the offside wheel and would be prone to stone damage!
The side pods, which are not finished at this time, will actually be more like encased
tunnels. Look at the modified photo LMP posted and imagine steel or ali panels creating an encased tunnel. With VHB tape that will be easy to
accomplish. Across the front wheelwell you are absolutely right! I thought about that as I was bending them and I am fabricating a rock guard to cover
the lines through that area. Since the car is full-bodied, it will also have complete fenderwell covers around the wheels front and back. Thanks A LOT! gotta change my avatar.
I think I read that the VHB tape has a foam core. Is this correct? If so this may limit the amount of rigidity of the bonded panel. If the foam
distorts even a few thousands of an inch rigidity will be effected. The problem with adhesives is they often have poor peel strength. Maybe a few
rivets would help avoid this.
A lot of kit cars (Ultima, Westfield etc) use ali floors for at least the part forward of the seat mountings.
Dominic,
Thanks for the measurements.
Steve,
Please don't take what I say as gospel!
I only say what I think might cause problems, after all you did ask for comments!
I look at your work and Alanb as guidence for my project.
I look at things and sometimes see things that don't quite seem right, not really knowing why. Then I forget about it and come back to it later.
Usually the second time looking I can work out what I think is wrong. This does not always work out right, but very often does! Therefore if I think
something is amiss then I will say and either get corrected if way out, or ignored if right!
Nobody likes a smart ar*e!
The floor should be fine using Ali as you will be putting in crossbracing anyway.
The only way you might get intrusion was if you tried to jack the car under it.
The clutch and brake lines I think should be protected as much as possible. Putting covers or guards over them just hides any possible problems.
Running them through the passenger cell you are more likely to notice any leaks (although less likely) due to soggy carpets, etc.
Worse case scenario; you don't want to loose your brakes after or during a shunt.
Maybe I'm just a pessimist!
Terry
ps, I've got to stay on your good side, cuz as soon as I've finished rewiring the garage and got some steel I'll be drilling you for
suspension measurements!
[Edited on 6/8/03 by Spyderman]
quote:
Originally posted by Spyderman
I look at your work and Alanb as guidence for my project.
The floor should be fine using Ali ....
The clutch and brake lines I think should be protected as much as possible. Putting covers or guards over them just hides any possible problems. Running them through the passenger cell you are more likely to notice any leaks (although less likely) due to soggy carpets, etc.
Worse case scenario; you don't want to loose your brakes after or during a shunt....
ps, I've got to stay on your good side, cuz as soon as I've finished rewiring the garage and got some steel I'll be drilling you for suspension measurements!
hahaha Well done Steve! I like your project a lot, especially the simplicity and functionallity of the whole rear end of your car.
quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
Well, I look to Alan's project for guidance, so in reality you are just looking at Alan's project for guidance. If he's wrong we're ALL screwed!
Graber
Yep...blame me.....
Should be reworking the body very soon.......lots of fun.........NOT
Ah well.....
Very sweet looking car!
On the topc, as coincidental as it may be, im in the doing a car with basically idental requirements as ProjectLMP, and i had no idea about his
project. Hehe the world is a funny place. Mine will be built around a modified Locost chassis (wider, longer mid-mounted) and probably with a 4AG
unless i can figure out how to use a bike motor cheaply
Mind you, me being my lazy self will prbably cut off the back of a MR2 and ust weld it in .
Stealing bodywork from Le Mans cars , that will certaily get the looks cruizing trough town.
(I have a reputation for not finishing things and am currently unemployed!)
[Edited on 17/11/03 by gsand]
[Edited on 17/11/03 by gsand]
quote:
Originally posted by sgraber
I am using 18ga steel floor panels, continuously bonded to the frame with 3M VHB epoxy tape. There will be no welding or rivets for any structural panels. I am going to trust the VHB tape. I will gladly report on it's effectiveness in the future.
quote:
Originally posted by kb58
Do me a favor then and at least put a few rivets in the leading edge. Or, put a second floor panel directly below your feet. There are dire consequences if that floor starts to peel off. Seriously.