Calzonii
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 12:20 AM |
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Best Indy Engine? ;)
Hi Guys,
This summer I will be purchasing an MK Indy!
Ive been looking at them for so long i think im starting to re-read the entire internet on MK.
I know everyone will comment about putting a BEC into the car but I just dont think I can bring myself to do it.
So i guess I'm asking that age old debate of: What is better? CEC or BEC for an MK?
For starters BEC engine noise just doesn't do it for me.. the high pitched squeal at about 10,000rpm just sounds too hissy and treble-y compared
to the bassy splurting from the exhaust of a larger car engine. But then again does the weight and size of a CEC severely take away from the
performance of the kit? Its just too hard to decide!  Sound is important!
Anyone care to comment?
Thanks,
Cal
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bi22le
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 01:51 AM |
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just from what you said your a CEC man.
i have had both and while i dont doubt for a second that my BEC was faster. i dont care. two trips to the ring, several track days later and many many
miles i love my CEC.
in my eyes one of the only good things about a BEC and what i miss is the pure sensory overload of feeling like your driving a race car. high reving
and sequential gears. if you dont like that then its not for you.
in terms of speed difference, it used to annoy me to take friends out in the BEC and say " yeah its quick but its ridiculous with just me in
it". my CEC at 150bhp is slower than my 180bhp BEC but i know its still the fastest car you will come across and with mates in it loose little
speed compared to just me. intact i would say from experience a BEC two up is slower than a CEC with driver only.
these cars are fast, Thats why they still race little crossflows. you wont beat it in anything other than an extraordinary tin top.
buy what excites you not what pub banter sounds best.
oh and at the end of all this BEC fans my perfect car is still a BEC abperformance sabour2!!!
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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gingerprince
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 08:43 AM |
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blowden86
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 08:57 AM |
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Hi Cal,
Based on you living in NI I'd definitely go BEC all the way, I've covered a lot of road over there and in my opinion a BEC would be much
more exciting to hoon around in.
That's not to say that a CEC won't be as good, it's all down to personal preference. I hired a Caterham over in NI (although
unfortunately the guy seems to have stopped hiring it out now), that had a 1.6 Rover engine and was still epic to drive. But I went for the GSXR as I
want something that's really going to scare the hell out of me
Got your U2U, will email later when I'm home with my budget. If you're not in a rush to buy anything now, wait until Stoneleigh and
you'll be able to talk to everyone there.
Cheers,
Ben
My MK Indy R GSXR 1000 Build Diary: http://www.suma-uk.com/indy/
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parkiboy
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 09:24 AM |
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Also a vote for a BEC, everytime I drive mine it feels special, you deffinetly get that race car feeling and puts a massive smile on your face.
One thing the CEC boys wil comment on is the lack of torque in a BEC, to be honest they don't really need it, they weigh around 450kg! Yes you
have to be in the correct gear a little more than a CEC but they are a drivers car and isn't that what driving is about?
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 09:55 AM |
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Duratec
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 10:04 AM |
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Some smaller BEC powerplants aren't terribly useful at 10,000rpm, so your worries about a high pitched squeal aren't a serious
contraindication. The R1, for example, isn't really happy until 11,000 or so and then sings all the way to 13,000 and beyond. My GSXR750 powered
cars weren't happy until 13,000rpm, keeping to the 13-15K powerband. So, no, don't assume that you have to put up with a 10,000rpm
soundtrack unless you have a large bike engine.
The 2.0 Pinto has lots of low end power and torque, is very affordable, simple and reliable. This really is (I believe) what would fit your needs
superbly. I have (by chance) two 2.5 litre ex-transit DI diesels (with MT75 gearboxes), if you're after serious torque.
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wylliezx9r
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 11:03 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Some smaller BEC powerplants aren't terribly useful at 10,000rpm, so your worries about a high pitched squeal aren't a serious
contraindication. The R1, for example, isn't really happy until 11,000 or so and then sings all the way to 13,000 and beyond. My GSXR750 powered
cars weren't happy until 13,000rpm, keeping to the 13-15K powerband. So, no, don't assume that you have to put up with a 10,000rpm
soundtrack unless you have a large bike engine.
The 2.0 Pinto has lots of low end power and torque, is very affordable, simple and reliable. This really is (I believe) what would fit your needs
superbly. I have (by chance) two 2.5 litre ex-transit DI diesels (with MT75 gearboxes), if you're after serious torque.
LOL
I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered.
George Best
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Custardpants
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 11:36 AM |
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Consider your use for the car too. If you are just going to use it in early morning blats and track use then the bike engine is perfect. Ultimately
the bike engine will be much more satisfying to drive with the sequential gears, it really is an onslaught on the senses. The additional benefit of
the bike engines are they are far easier to service bits like clutches. Personally I wanted performance first and foremost so I went for a hayabusa
engine so I am biased. But is not a car for daily novelty use and not for the motorway. If you are an oversteer god then the low down torque of the
CEC will be better though, and you have the added advantage of running an engine which will be very lowly stressed.
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andy1303
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 11:41 AM |
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There is no best engine. You have to ask yourself what do you like about driving and how do you drive.
Me? First transport was a motorbike. Still riding 20 years later. But I tend to ride v configuration engines because even when riding a bike I like
lazy torque, and I've never liked making an engine scream.
My CEC indy has 150bhp and runs out of puff by 6k but I love never having to change gear and the fact it pulls from virtually nothing. My mate has
bikes and loves making them scream, has a classic with a cross flow and loves making that scream, and if he had a kit he'd be a perfect
candidate for a BEC.
Andy
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Calzonii
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 01:47 PM |
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Cheers Ben! Look forward to having a read! 
The road here in NI are pretty nice especially round the mountains where I live so BEc probs would be better but is the torque issue that
important?
Im getting the impression that CEC's arent all that fast compared to BEC's?
Seq gearing would be unbelievable to have and I was watching a few videos on youtube last night of BECs and they definitely seem rediculously fast!
What disadvantage does low torque have? No burnouts? haha
Whats the most fastest reasonably priced BEC and CEC'd engine?
Cheers,
Cal
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blowden86
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 03:06 PM |
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You've probably seen this already Cal but my rationale for the BEC is on this page on my blog:
http://www.suma-uk.com/indy/plan-budget/what-engine/
Also the link on that page takes you to a website that compares bike engines. The reason I went for the GSXR is that it has more low end torque, so
you have a lot of power in the lower revs so you're not having to scream the tits off the engine (whereas you would with an R1). I think the
Kawasaki's are similarly good for low end torque, but the Suzuki's tend to be more popular for reliability.
I'm told by a very seasoned biker that the K3 is the best of the GSXR engines which is why I went for it. No chance I'll have mine on the
road to take you out at Stoneleigh unfortunately, but I'm sure there'll be others around who can give you advice. Although note I would
have gone for a Hayabusa if I could have afforded the extra £2K but decided against it for now.
Car engines are a lot heavier so that's probably the main impact on performance. As others have said, a bike engine will be easier to maintain.
The gearbox is all enclosed in the engine, so it's more compact. I can pick my engine up on my own! (So no need for a crane/hoist for
fitting...).
If you do go for a BEC, you'll need a Dynojet Power Commander, Speedo Healer & gear indicator (around £530 for the 3 but you can get them
cheaper used on ebay). All covered in my budget you'll be pleased to hear, but all things people aren't aware of when entering this game
for the first time. At the same time, I think custom ECU's for CEC's can be just as expensive if not more!
My MK Indy R GSXR 1000 Build Diary: http://www.suma-uk.com/indy/
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parkiboy
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 03:31 PM |
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Just to add, although I have said BEC is the way to go I must say I have struggled a lot with it when it comes to maintainance as I know jack shit
about bike engines. It's very out of my comfort zone. However because It's a joy to drive so I am slowly trying to learn but I would be
lying if I said I haven't thought about changing to a CEC for that reason when things have got tough.
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Calzonii
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| posted on 29/3/13 at 04:29 PM |
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great advice guys thanks!
Charts are super ben.. I must have a better look now! i missed the link on that page in your blog last time i read it
Trying to keep cost to a minimum aswell so a BEC might be the answer as much as i hate to admit it! haha
Cal
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Hellfire
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| posted on 31/3/13 at 06:31 PM |
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It's quite difficult to compare torque for BEC v CEC and there seems to be a common misconception that bike engines lack torque due to figures
being quoted at the crank. What you need to consider, is that bike engines have a torque multiplier in the form of a primary reduction gear. BEC
torque actually isn't as low as others would have you believe.............
BEC all the way!!
Phil
[Edited on 31-3-13 by Hellfire]
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daniel mason
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| posted on 31/3/13 at 06:49 PM |
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go on youtube and watch an RGB race. you then will probably go for a bike motor!
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OrangeJuiced
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| posted on 13/4/13 at 09:09 AM |
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I'd say the decision is based on budget vs performance.
A Pinto engine can be tuned relatively cheaply and will still be relatively reliable unless you tune it to an inch of its life. Reverse gear is
standard on a ford box as well! This is more than enough power and torque to put a sideways smile on your face.
BEC will typically cost more and if you are after performance the more powerful engines like the hayabusa arent cheap.
If money was no object I'd have a track car with a performance bike engine.
For the record I have a pinto powered road car.
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evonigel
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| posted on 23/4/13 at 09:57 PM |
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if your budget can stretch to a hayabusa or zzr 1400 power plant then go BEC without a second thought.Anything less in the BEC department and you will
soon get fed up with it.Like yourself I am also from norn iron and would be happy to take you for a spin if it helps you make up your mind.
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twybrow
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| posted on 24/4/13 at 06:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by evonigel
if your budget can stretch to a hayabusa or zzr 1400 power plant then go BEC without a second thought.Anything less in the BEC department and you will
soon get fed up with it.Like yourself I am also from norn iron and would be happy to take you for a spin if it helps you make up your mind.
Whatever engine you put in, you will eventually think about turbos/suprchargers/tuning - enough is never enough!
I have a ZX12R powered car, and I love it - every journey is an event, and it never fails to make me grin like a school child. I have been in some
very quick CECs, but none has the theatre that the bike engine delivers. In my opinion, they are well suited to small, lightweight cars where handling
is key.
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Calzonii
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| posted on 25/4/13 at 11:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by evonigel
if your budget can stretch to a hayabusa or zzr 1400 power plant then go BEC without a second thought.Anything less in the BEC department and you will
soon get fed up with it.Like yourself I am also from norn iron and would be happy to take you for a spin if it helps you make up your mind.
Aww mann! if you wouldn't mind giving me a spin that would be AWESOME!
Where abouts are you based?
And are you perchance heading to stoneleigh?
Thanks
Cal
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evonigel
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| posted on 26/4/13 at 07:38 AM |
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i am in the big city of garvagh
not going to stoneleigh
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Calzonii
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| posted on 26/4/13 at 07:54 PM |
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Nice!
Haha we are a bit far apart then! Im from Banbridge  ! but thanks!
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