richj
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| posted on 18/4/03 at 06:19 AM |
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what to do
Hi, just got the time, space, and money to start my own project.
I was hoping for some pointers...
Should i go the sierra or escort route? and if i built an escort based chasis would i be able to convert to sierra....? i have no idea about the irs
part? Indipendant rear suspension? Thats what i want....
I have the build your own sportscar book, with the design in it... but i was hoping people could tell me whats best, and where i could get possibly
"better" plans from....
I want to use a 2.0l engine, and buy all new suspension transmision (possibly engine) and other components.... I was thinking of using a donor car to
build it at first, to get it going, and then slowly replacing with new parts.... I have 12 months to build the car... with my full attention everyday,
so i am hoping this wont just be a dream 
Any thoughts.... suggestions etc...
Thanx
Rich.
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Jasper
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| posted on 18/4/03 at 09:27 AM |
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1. Can you weld? Do you want to learn? Are you likely to use the welding gear again? It won't be cheaper to make your own chassis if you
don't have the gear, but it is satisfying and then you've got the knowledge and tools for future projects.
2. Live Axle versus IRS. Lots of posts on this already. I've gone live axle cos I made my own chassis to it's simpler. Handling is
excellent with live axle, and it's relatively light. IRS is more comfy on the arse, and there are more Sierra's around as donors. Their
are better plans for the live axle version - M Sorleys plans - downloadable from the net, do a search on this forum, but not as yet for IRS, speak to
James as he has designed his own.
3. Why do you want to buy all new parts? If you've got cash to spend then why not go the bike engine route????
4. It's do-able in a year, that's about how long it will have taken me building from scratch using live axle/bike engine. You gonna need
to put in >10 hours per week.
If you don't wanna build your own chassis then my advice would be to buy an MK IRS chassis and suspension package.
There is no best, just lots of opinions!! It depends how much time/cash you have, how much you want to build yourself, and the final use for the car,
comfy long-distance tourer, or balls out racer.
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craig1410
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| posted on 21/4/03 at 11:59 AM |
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I agree with Jasper and my gut-feeling from what you have said so far is to go for an MK Indy kit from MK Engineering. You can then use a Sierra donor
for almost everything. The MK Indy kit is about £1000+Vat but you get lots for your money and would have a rolling chassis iin next to no time. You
are also then working from an established platform which has an abundant source of donor parts.
If you do go down the route of building your own chassis (as I am doing) then take some advice before buying a welder. You will need a good
semi-professional welder which is likely to cost almost as much as the MK bare chassis (£350ish I'd say) so as Jasper says, are you likely to
use it after this project? I'd suggest that you should get welding tuition even before buying your own welder because it will help you to choose
but make sure it has loads of amps (upwards of 180 and ideally >200) I'm using a 120A Clarke welder and it can't really cope tbh.
Again, if you go the diy route then stick to an "established" set of plans such as the McSorely (which are just a tidied up version of the
book plans) and don't be tempted to widen or lengthen the car. Jim McSorely has produced a +4" wider and also a longer version of the
standard plans. If you do go wider (or longer) as I have done then you will have difficulties using off the shelf Locost stuff such as nosecones and
rollbars etc and will make more work for yourself. Stick to Live axle from an escort with Ford engine and gearbox (or the Bike engine as Jasper
mentioned - very fast but has some practical issues in my opinion)
I have done none of the above and am building a DIY chassis based on +4" wider McSorely plans with a Rover V8 engine and gearbox coupled to a
Sierra diff with a de-dion suspension system previously made by MK so I am highly qualified to give out good advice... 
Seriously mate, don't be a pioneer if this is your first car build, you will lose patience and feel like it will never be complete. Get the MK
Indy if you can afford it initially and then save money by using second hand reconditioned parts instead of new parts. For god's sake
don't buy a brand new engine - get one from a low-mileage insurance write-off at least (rear end damage preferred).
Oh, another bit of advice - Set yourself a 3 or 4 week information assimilation period before you buy ANYTHING at all. What seemed like a good idea on
Day 1 will turn out to have been a bad idea by day 5 and so on. Write down every bit of advice you get in a little book and then read it all over
again just before you make your decision.
My final piece of advice is to watch out for bad advice. This may be the only bit of good advice I have given here... 
I hope this helps,
Craig.
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Jasper
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| posted on 21/4/03 at 07:29 PM |
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(or the Bike engine as Jasper mentioned - very fast but has some practical issues in my opinion).
Practical!!!!! Since when were these cars meant to be practical!!!! Now, my nice red Volvo outside, that's practical. But I don't need any
more practical than that. I want to go fast, VERY fast, in fact, I want to scare myself stupid.....any my passengers, and every time I get out I want
a HUGE grin on my face...
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craig1410
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| posted on 21/4/03 at 08:41 PM |
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Jasper,
Okay so practical isn't quite the right word...
What I'm referring to are the issues such as no reverse (unless you fit an electric reverse), low torque - high RPM, noisy (nice if you like it
though). The sequential gearbox is nice admitedly but not unheard of on a car as well.
I agree completely that the BEC is a natural fitment in a Locost since it's all about low weight - high performance but lets face it, not
everyone wants a bike engine buzzing away in the front of their car!
Car power in the form of a 16valve K-Series, Vauxhall or Ford engine is more in keeping with "convention" whatever that means, although
BEC's are more common every day now. In my case I prefer the V8 route because I love the sound and tractability as well as the potential for big
power (250+BHP) with ease. I have also found a complete low-mileage (since prof. rebuild) V8 with gearbox for about £300 which is probably 2.5-3 times
cheaper than a typical good bike engine. Then again, I'm on a tight budget, others may not be.
I don't want to get into an off-topic debate on BEC versus CEC (Car engined car...) since we each have our preferences but I think we can agree
that either way is going to produce a quicker car than 95%+ of everything else on the road today. Each have their pro's and con's.
Getting back to the question from Rich, my point which I hope you'll agree with Jasper, is to stick to something tried and tested. When I say
this I mean something tried and tested AND ON THE ROAD TODAY, rather than something someone is still trying to get to work. BEC's are certainly
in this category now but you should use a platform such as the Indy which people have used for a BEC project many times. By the same token, the
various Ford engines in a "book"chassis have been done many many times. The Rover V8 which I'm using has been done and is being done
by a few on this list but there is a bit more work involved to fit it all in and will work best with a wider chassis like mine.
Anyway, 'nuff said from me since I'm a relative newbie myself compared to some of the wise old men on this list. Seriously consider the MK
kit. I may still buy one yet and flog off my "unfinished project" if progress doesn't start to speed up soon!
All the best,
Craig.
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kb58
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 01:13 AM |
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Yup, sounds like you'd be best off with an existing kit where you put in your own drivetrain. Really depends on your budget and timeframe.
FWIW, I was rather shocked to realize I've been working on my home designed/build mid-engine Mini going on 7 years That's the other
extreme of doing it *all* yourself. How involved do you want to be? When must it be done? The sky's the limit.
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elewayne
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 04:59 AM |
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What to do
Hi all, I'm in Texas not England so I can't speak for the Sierra of Escort as I've never even seen one.
I think the question you might ask at this point is.....Why am I doing this?
Do I just want a Seven?
Do I want a cool car cheap........fast?
In my case I'm a builder, I like to build.
I like figuring it all out and making it work.
I built one chassis then built another the way I really wanted it.
Well,also to fit my transmission.
I too spent a lot of time talking with Jim McSorley. Great guy by the way.
I studied his drawings then got on my Auto Cad and drew up my own plans.
I went live axel. I really don't see any reason to go IRS unless you just really like it or want to use a doner with one.
My son drives a 240 SX with IRS and it just eats up rear tires.
Another thing, I'm a tool guy, and I've spent almost as much on tools as the car to this point. But I'll keep using them, and my
boys will too.
Any way I've rambled enough.
What does that guy say?
Buy the book, Buy the mig, build the car, Get the t shirt.
Good luck! It really is fun.
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JohnFol
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 07:50 AM |
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elewayne, the escort and sierra do exist in the US. The name taurus springs to mind, but I would need to check.
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Philbo
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 09:51 AM |
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Hi Richj,
I'm somewhat of a newbie myself having just started...I wanted a rwd track car (having explored the limits of a 300bhp fwd track car) and I
wanted to have the option of racing, and I wanted to learn more about the "oily bits" of a car as opposed to just tinkering with engine
and suspension components as I have done so far.
Anyway 3 months in and I can say that undertaking a "book" 1300 xflow build to comply with 750MC locost regs will satisfy all of the
above.
But you do need to decide what you want. Building the chassis yourself from scratch with no tools will undoubtedly add a *long* time to your build.
And, if you do an average job, you may regret the hours and time you spent on the job rather than just £400 buying in a chassis. Even if you do just
buy in a chassis, there is a *lot* more to do to give you the satisfaction of building the car. Buying a chassis is *not* a cheat.
Also, *do* add up the cost of buying tools and components before you start. As has been said, read and re-read many times before committing to a
design or idea. Become fully familiar with the options and what they really mean. Bike engined may seem like a simple choice but it has a lot of
knock-on implications for things like general component availability and even things like propshaft connections.
Doing things "by the book" makes sourcing components the easiest and cheapest by far, and that can be a consideration.
It also depends whether or not you are prepared to break a donor car for everything you can use. If you decide to buy off-the-shelf reconditioned or
new components, be prepared for a big spend (Stuart Taylor Motorsport quoted me about £6000 for a semi-complete "kit" less drivetrain,
propshafts, tyres etc going that route.) And, IMO if you are prepared to spend that sort of money there are probably better options than a Locost to
build.
Road car, racing car or track car? With regards to engines, I personally would obtain a second hand one for which tuning components are widely
available. A number of Ford, Vauxhall and Peugeot engines are in this category and should be widely available. It depends how much performance and
tuning potential you want. Also don't discount buying someone else's highly tuned engine: you can get fast road or ex-racing engines for a
fraction of the money that has been spent of them if you know where to look.
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Alan B
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 12:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnFol
elewayne, the escort and sierra do exist in the US. The name taurus springs to mind, but I would need to check.
John, the Escort does exist but only in FWD versions...the Sierra lives under the guise of the Merkur..which are not very common.....
I HAVE seen RWD Escorts here..but they will have been personal imports and are VERY rare..maybe 10 in the country (guessing)
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 22/4/03 at 01:09 PM |
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someone on the yahoo list called
minicountryman1961 or don davis is using a merkur. He is such a nice guy too
The engine in these sounds a good proposition - about 190hp or so from a 2.3 litre turbo four.
do a search on yahoo for pics of the cars and you will soon see similar stuff.
BTW - even toy story has a cartoon version of a fwd usa version escort in it.
atb
steve
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