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Sump below chassis
Johnmor - 15/2/20 at 10:53 PM

Hi all

Just did trial fit of the v8 in the chassis, so far so good

The base of the sump sits around 50 mm below the chasis, how does this compare to others,

My previous viento with the Alfa engine was around 40mm,

Is 50mtoo much??


Angel Acevedo - 16/2/20 at 02:19 AM

50 mm is about 40% of my ground clearance.
In my car Not Acceptable.
Aalso, sump clearance may not be the lowest point of your engine/transmission combo.
If close enough to wheel axis it may not be a problem though.

I would not risk it.


Johnmor - 16/2/20 at 07:50 AM

Thanks for the reply
The sump on the V8 is by far the lowest part of the transmission but its shape means this is about 600mm behind the front wheel axis so I may try to raise it a bit, but it's a tight fit under the bonnet, may need to look at a different carb set up to gain some space.

Think the Weber 500 with manifold could give me another 25mm but it's an expensive way to gain 25mm


Bladerunner - 16/2/20 at 08:26 AM

Is there a kit for your engine that you could get to dry sump it. That way everything stays as is just reduce the depth of the sump.


rusty nuts - 16/2/20 at 08:45 AM

I believe the Rover V8 used a variety of sumps over the years? Might be possible to get one that isnt as deep, possibly a P6? Obviously depending on which engine you are using.Might also be able to cut a section out and install baffles and extra capacity?
Rodsnsods have more info


Johnmor - 16/2/20 at 08:53 AM

The dry sump option would certainly reduce the depth , although it's more expensive than the Weber 500 option
Also you need to then look at the fly wheel as is 320mm diameter means it's only about 20mm above the sump base,

A smaller fly wheel get real complicated , starter motor etc

In my last viento I ended up with around 120mm ground clearance from the chassis and my sump was closer to the wheel line so didn't cause major issues as long as you were aware of speed bumps etc

I'll look at raising the engine as much as I can without hitting the bonnet, I have plenty of room in the transmission tunnel I'll see how things go


Are most engine fits bringing the sump above the chassis??


big_wasa - 16/2/20 at 08:55 AM

With a standard sized car I aim for a max of 25mm.

I have been wondering if the Viento sits higher ?


Johnmor - 16/2/20 at 10:33 AM

The viento is wide and can stand a little taller without looking silly

With suspension adjustment and tyre options I can raise and lower the car a bit

I'm looking at 16" wheels with 50 series tyres ( softer ride) giving the rears a large diameter of 632mm , this will raise the chassis a bit although it may affect the spring loading

If I can get the sump to around 25mm below I think it will be ok

The Joy's of building your own car !!


ian locostzx9rc2 - 16/2/20 at 10:37 AM

Personally in wont want a sump more than 40mm below chassis rail but it does depend on the chassis height to road min ideally is 100 mm clearance anything below that may cause a few headaches but lots of people run 75mm clearance

[Edited on 16/2/20 by ian locostzx9rc2]


Angel Acevedo - 16/2/20 at 02:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Johnmor
The dry sump option would certainly reduce the depth , although it's more expensive than the Weber 500 option
Also you need to then look at the fly wheel as is 320mm diameter means it's only about 20mm above the sump base,

A smaller fly wheel get real complicated , starter motor etc

In my last viento I ended up with around 120mm ground clearance from the chassis and my sump was closer to the wheel line so didn't cause major issues as long as you were aware of speed bumps etc

I'll look at raising the engine as much as I can without hitting the bonnet, I have plenty of room in the transmission tunnel I'll see how things go


Are most engine fits bringing the sump above the chassis??


I think youd need to use several actions.
- Modify sump, Theres 20 mm to be gained. Or even 25 mm
I dont think thats enough to reduce too much oil capacity.
- Install Skid plate (there you loose clearance but increase protection against bumps.
- Increase Ride Height.

The sum of the three may be enough for the protrusion not to be a problem.
HTH

quote:
Originally posted by ian locostzx9rc2
Personally in wont want a sump more than 40mm below chassis rail but it does depend on the chassis height to road min ideally is 100 mm clearance anything below that may cause a few headaches but lots of people run 75mm clearance

[Edited on 16/2/20 by ian locostzx9rc2]


+1


CosKev3 - 16/2/20 at 06:30 PM

Modify the sump and oil pick pick up, and add on a wing or wings to the side of sump to increase capacity


steve m - 16/2/20 at 06:40 PM

Its irrelevant, of how far below the chassis a sump or gearbox or anything else is,
But what is relevant is how much gap between the lowest part is to the ground

My old 7, had 100mm (4" gap between the ground and the gearbox bellhousing, and that used to take chunks out of speed humps if I was traveling a tad to fast

steve


coyoteboy - 17/2/20 at 12:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Modify the sump and oil pick pick up, and add on a wing or wings to the side of sump to increase capacity


This.


tilly819 - 17/2/20 at 03:53 PM

Mine was 25mm below when I built it...
Put a hole in it one day far from home...
I have a sump guard now...

50mm sounds like trouble assuming you have the standard-ish 100-150mm ground clearance.

Tilly


Johnmor - 17/2/20 at 07:17 PM

Thanks for the responses

I agree 50mm is too much, to compound issues the standard SU carbs are around 30mm too high for the bonnet, so I need to lose around 75-80mm

I have found a pair of stromburg carbs that will release about 30mm, it also appears the range rover sump would give around 10mm

So still 40mm short, could move the engine back around 40mm that may give another 10mm

OR bite the bullet and spend 1000 on Weber 500 and manifold, give around 60mm but 25hp!!

I can see the mounting up

However I'm in no great hurry so I'll keep working on it and find a solution.

Thanks for the ideas

John


big_wasa - 17/2/20 at 07:33 PM

I thought 17s where the norm on a Viento.

Ive got 16s with mine but thought they might be a bit weedy


Johnmor - 17/2/20 at 07:54 PM

I had 17" before on my last Viento, but 45 series tyres with the low weight of the car made for a hard ride,

I have a new set of 16" i bought with the kit so ill go for 50 series tyre , diameter is the same so ride height not compromised

I have a set of 20" of my Mercedes GL with 275/50s that would add some ground clearence


big_wasa - 17/2/20 at 08:03 PM

Yeh Ive got 18s on my Renault and its gocart hard.


Mr Whippy - 18/2/20 at 12:05 PM

Personally I would not want the sump to be the lowest part no matter how much it stuck out, its only a matter of time before the inevitable happened.


Johnmor - 19/2/20 at 09:56 AM

Yeahh the sump is a vunerable part but engine design always puts it at the lowest point (for good reason), large capacity engine are always a challenge although the 45 degree v8 is better than most and shorter than almost any v8-straight 6-v6 etc

My Alfa v6 with fuel injection fitted under the bonnet (just) but the sump was 40mm below

The viento is wide but not that much taller than the Velocity , ill keep finding solutions but will almost certainly have a sump guard as i cant see how im gonna get it above the chassis without a dry sump and thats big money

imsure many on this site have done it so a solution is there, just got to make it work


JonBowden - 19/2/20 at 01:31 PM

I know that you have space issues at the top of the engine but how about raising the engine by say 20mm.
To help compensate for this, you might be able to move it back a wee bit (to put it under a higher part of the bonnet.
Then you might be able to make a fuel injection system fit (?) or a big hole for the carb(s).

I used to have a Rover V8 engine with an australian market EFI plenum. This plenum was much lower than the Vitesse one

The standard oil filler is quite high but my Australian one had a lower filler - or it could be machined


Johnmor - 19/2/20 at 02:33 PM

Hi Jon

Yeahh id like to raise the engine but the current SU carb set up is already 30mm to high so I need to reconsider the carbs or possibly FI but i dont want to complicate things too much.

Its a pity cause the SU carbs are pretty good and just been reconditioned (previous owner) they were on the engine when i got it

Its a goldseal reconditioned engine so although 35 years old its only done around 2000 miles.

It maybe a combination of things that provides the space, incuding a shorter sump and differnt carbs etc

ill keep on it

john


JonBowden - 19/2/20 at 05:54 PM

Sounds like the opportunity for a big bulge / scoop.

Out of interest, I see from your photos that you had a rather nice looking Alfa engine in your other car.
Why a Rover engine this time?


Johnmor - 19/2/20 at 06:38 PM

Hi Jon

I used an Alfa v6 previously as it was an engine I was familiar with and always loved the sound of the v6, the issue was making a FWD engine fit a RWD car, all the Alfa with rear wheel drive use a different system with the gearbox in the back axle, not suitable for a kit car.

So I had a conversion plate made and engineered a bell housing , mated it to a Ford gearbox, lots of work but was successful

However I bought the recent Viento part built and the engine came with the deal , I have always liked the V8 so I'm going to go with it, in addition, the engineer chap who helped on the last project has retired and moved away so access to engineering machines is now limited

The v8 has less power (about 160hp alfa was 190) but it's great soundtrack and looks tidy under the bonnet, if I can squeeze it in