Adamirish
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| posted on 15/12/16 at 10:39 PM |
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Mig welding advice
I have decided to pull my finger out and start welding myself. I have all the gear(no idea) now but just a couple of questions.
Firstly the gas(argon). Being a poverty spec disposable bottle, the regulator has no gauge so how far do I undo it? Full bore or just half a turn or
so?
Now I understand this may open a can of worms judging by the internet but which is the best practise, push or pull? Or in reality does it not matter?
I have read arguments for and against both ways but as a relative beginner, I would prefer to learn to do it properly from the start. Or is it a case
of it depends what i'm doing?
I have mig welded in the past with a welder that was set up for me so I kind of know what does what. Going it alone is a different ball game though. I
intend on getting all the scrap metal I can get my hands on this weekend and just practising, I may well end up with some form of scrap metal
sculpture thing by Sunday night!
If there are any other words of wisdom you can throw at me then please feel free!
Thanks in advance for any advice.
MK Indy 1700 Xflow
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Shooter63
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 08:10 AM |
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The 1st thing I would do is get a proper gas bottle from a company like sgs, they do a rent free system, then get a proper welding gas, I presume you
want to weld steel apposed to alloy, pure argon will be terrible for steel, you need an argon/co2 mix, then get a gauge and set it to around 20cfm, I
know it will mean spending money but in the long run you will be a happy man.
Shooter
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 08:16 AM |
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I would suggest a look at the Mig welding forum , instructional videos and loads of advice for novice welders.
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CosKev3
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 08:22 AM |
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YouTube FTW 
Just bought myself a TIG and used Youtube to get me going
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Slimy38
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 08:43 AM |
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As mentioned forget the disposable bottles. They're such a hassle to setup you'll have wasted half the gas by the time you're ready,
and then you'll have maybe ten minutes of welding at best. I use Adams gas, there's a deposit to pay but the gas itself is quite cheap and
there's lots of places to go. One bottle refill typically lasts me a year, and I can get the deposit back anytime.
As for push vs pull, I'm not convinced there is a 'right' way. On my welding course we were taught both. Welding technique is going
to be largely based on what feels comfortable and more importantly how much access you have. Even on a spaceframe chassis there are certain places
where your access is restricted and you have no choice. Particularly with vertical welds, because you can't weld from top to bottom you'll
probably end up with the torch at a certain angle anyway.
It's a good idea to practice on scrap, what I would recommend is pick the metal that is the same thickness of what you'll be using. Or
practice on a wide range of thicknesses to tell the difference. I made the mistake of practising on thick metal, then spent ages wondering why I was
blowing holes in the chassis tube!!
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 10:17 AM |
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Push or Pull?
Depends..... as always.
I predominantly push, why? Well, I find it easier to see where I'm going. I have issues which you won't, predominantly with visual acuity,
myopia, old age.
I find pulling is better for heavy sections, less initial build up, better penetration.
Vertically, I always go down.
Inverted is really a fun thing, especially when trapped, on your back, under a vehicle. I always try and rotate the job if possible, avoids the smell
of burning flesh. If not, just bear in mind that penetration can be quite considerable when adjusting wire and voltage.
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WesBrooks
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 12:15 PM |
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First of my experience is limited. I've only done City and Guilds level one in MIG and TIG and nearly done level 2 in MIG. It's £250 for
15 3 hour evening sessions in my local college and all the metal, wire, and gas you can burn in that time included. Level 1 is make it look consistant
and good on the flat horizontal position of various welds. Level 2 introduces the but joint, vertical welding, along with macro testing (to visualise
the penetration on a sectioned weld) and destructive testing to make sure the pretty weld also holds well.
When working on the scrap cut out some 50mm sections and try to break the welds. It is really easy to make a weld that looks great but has next to
zero penetration on at least one of the sides, resulting in a very weak weld.
With regards to vertical welding you'll struggle to get decent penetration on plate thicker than 3mm with down hill. Having said that use of 3mm
and above is probably limited on a typical Locost! In equal measure up hill on 3mm and less is very difficult without burning through.
Edit: With multiple pass vertical weld the root pass on open root joints is often down hill followed by one or more uphill passes.
[Edited on 16/12/16 by WesBrooks]
http://doctrucker.wordpress.com
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Slimy38
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 03:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Vertically, I always go down.
It's interesting you say that, I could never get a decent weld going down. The weld puddle would simply drop due to gravity and if I tried to
keep up with it the penetration was almost zero.
I found this picture to be the best description of how I weld upwards;
I have to admit it's not the easiest technique (and you're absolutely right that the preference is to move the work piece rather than work
around it!), but it has resulted in nice welds.
To be honest I use that zigzag technique on a lot of my welds, I can see the penetration as I move and some of the welds are almost TIG like in their
presentation (if I do say so myself!).
[Edited on 16/12/16 by Slimy38]
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bonzoronnie
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 04:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by motorcycle_mayhem
Vertically, I always go down.
It's interesting you say that, I could never get a decent weld going down. The weld puddle would simply drop due to gravity and if I tried to
keep up with it the penetration was almost zero.
[Edited on 16/12/16 by Slimy38]
For vertical down, power up, wire speed down + correct torch angle.
As for all welding, it's all about welder settings & technique
Vertical up gives excellent penetration & is a must for thicker plate. ( The only method allowed for coded vertical weld procedure )
That said, vertical down is fine on thinner materials, 3mm & less
[Edited on 16/12/16 by bonzoronnie]
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Adamirish
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| posted on 16/12/16 at 06:08 PM |
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Thankyou for all the tips guys, much appreciated. It gives me something to play with this weekend! I expect lots of clothes with holes in them and
with Xmas just round the corner it's good timing!
As for the gas, I completely agree that the disposable bottles are a waste of time but one came with the welder so I will use that until it runs out
then look into a proper bottle and regulator. Providing I don't burn my garage down first.
Thanks again guys.
MK Indy 1700 Xflow
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Adamirish
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| posted on 17/12/16 at 05:13 PM |
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Well it seems you guys were right. Those disposable bottles are a waste of time.
Had a bit of play, welded some 3mm steel at right angles and beat the snot out of it with a hammer. It just bent the metal. So being confident it was
strong enough I set about making some seat brackets, did 1 1 inch weld and it ran out.
I will try and source a decent size bottle and a new regulator next week.
MK Indy 1700 Xflow
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prawnabie
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| posted on 17/12/16 at 05:20 PM |
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If your in the redditch area I have a sealy big bottle regulator with an adapter to fit the disposable bottle size line on your welder if you need it.
It doesn't have a gauge but it works!
http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?gotonode=ViewProduct&method=mViewProduct&productid=7412&productdescription=&productcode=&
;category=16&catgroup=238&catmicrogroup=1376&analysiscode=&requiredresults=16
Also got a full small bottle if that's any good to you aswell - it all came free to me with my welder and I never used it
[Edited on 17/12/16 by prawnabie]
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