kb58
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 05:03 PM |
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Can you please help this guy...
Over on the Grassroots motorsports forum is this thread:
http://www.grmotorsports.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=7252
Go about halfway down and you'll see this very, very scary suspension - note lower shock mount and small diameter tubing. 3/4" x
1/8" wall tube!
I've tried convincing him to change that lower a-arm and shock mounting point, but he just doesn't seem too concerned.
[Edited on 1/15/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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Peteff
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 05:12 PM |
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If he drives it on the road it won't be long before it changes itself  I'd worry about the top mount and steering arm lash up as well.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Alan B
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 05:17 PM |
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Totally agree KB...
Trouble is you can't tell the "DR" anything....Cos, he's a doctor so he knows it all...
Sorry no time for the guy and his pretension.....he may well be (and I'm sure he is a doctor), but on a car board he is just one of the
guys...
He'd do well to acknowledge that and heed good advice.
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Wadders
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 05:50 PM |
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Dr Frankenstein by any chance?
Originally posted by Alan B
Totally agree KB...
Trouble is you can't tell the "DR" anything....Cos, he's a doctor so he knows it all...
Sorry no time for the guy and his pretension.....he may well be (and I'm sure he is a doctor), but on a car board he is just one of the
guys...
He'd do well to acknowledge that and heed good advice.
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JoelP
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 05:52 PM |
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well he's got my 'expert' contribution too now too!!! lol
Beware! Bourettes is binfectious.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 06:06 PM |
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looks like a lot of birds have been around the joints too........
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 06:12 PM |
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He must be a Doctor
He welds like one
don't forget, turn the gas on !
[Edited on 15/1/2005 by Trev Borg]
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 06:15 PM |
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I just love the shocker top mount
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 06:22 PM |
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all you have to ask is, "would you sit in that car ?"
i hope he aint a cosmetic thingy..... did he do Jacko's jobby ?
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 06:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
all you have to ask is, "would you sit in that car ?"
i hope he aint a cosmetic thingy..... did he do Jacko's jobby ?
Or would you even sit on the car if it was parked !
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RoadkillUK
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 07:11 PM |
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Someone send me the obituary when it's printed in the paper.
Is he planning on using it on the road? If so SVA will pick it up.
Oh, just noticed that KB is in Canada, if it's in Canada are there regs there too?
Roadkill - Lee
www.bradford7.co.uk
Latest Picture (14 Sept 2014)
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Cita
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 07:25 PM |
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It's very nice of you KB to show so much care to the health of fellow builders but it's obvious that this guy is not going to listen.
I would say that you have done the best you could to advize him.
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Pseudo7
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 08:27 PM |
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It's builds such as the Doc's that give scratch built cars a bad reputation.
Not only is the lower control arm/shock mount design suspect, but the fabrication displayed will probably make matters worse.
I've read the good Doctor's web site in the past...doesn't strike me as a guy that admits to errors easily. I hope he'll heed
everyone's advice and redesign the lower control arms and shock mount (both on lwr arm and chassis side)...and maybe take a welding course, or
three!
[Edited on 15/1/05 by Pseudo7]
Pseudo7...similar, but not authentic!
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gazza285
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 08:54 PM |
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The back end looks as bad as the front.
Seperate arms top and bottom! This guy is frightening me.
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gazza285
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 08:55 PM |
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Hi web site is here.
God, look at the welding.
Looked in his website a bit, he also holds patents for a traffic camera system. I am not finding much to like about this man.
[Edited on 15/1/05 by gazza285]
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DorsetStrider
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 09:07 PM |
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All I can say it what do you expect from a texan.... what other famous texans do we know that have a problem admitting to errors of judgement?
Who the f**K tightened this up!
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Liam
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 10:57 PM |
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Jesus guys, give him a break!!
OK the current wishbone design is unsuitable, but like he says - it isn't finished. With a bit of plate welded in similar to the book design
they'll be fine. The shock mount is no further inwards than a book bone and his are made of 3mm wall seamless. Book bones are made of
3/4" 16swg and are obviously fine. Top shock mounts need some gussetts.
What's wrong with the rear? Strong/stiff enough if a little over complicated. Inelegant if you're gonna be picky. Absolutely nothing
wrong with individual straight links instead of wishbones. Totally eliminates bending loads. In his case he may have rear bump steer issues due to
the location of his track control arm mount being further out than his wishbone mount. Maybe he wants some bump toe out? Whatever, it certainly
isn't the worst irs design I've seen.
Some of the welding in hard to reach places looks a bit bumpy. So does some of mine. A weld has to be strong enough - not look pretty
Sorry for the moan. It's good to give people advice and also to criticise (providing you really know better), but it's not very helpful
the way people seem to be jumping on the "lets slag off somebody for a laugh" bandwagon with, in some cases, comments just as misguided as
the current wishbone design.
OK moan over. Lets keep this friendly!
Liam
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 15/1/05 at 11:13 PM |
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Liam, you obviously have a very generous nature which is to be commended, I also try to look for the best in everyone, but in this case I have to
agree with the general consensus.
If this car ever gets near tarmac in its present condition, Dr Hess will probably die, and possible others in the immediate vicinity
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Liam
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 12:04 AM |
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I'm not ignoring potentially dangerous construction in some quest to see only the best in people - like i said, I agree the wishbone in
it's current form is unsuitable. But like the DR says, it's not finished!
My interpretation of 'the general consensus' from reading the posts here goes like this...
The whole car is a piece of crap. The rear end is laughably bad too (ha ha). The guy is obviously a complete tw*t (ho ho). He's a disgrace to
amateur car builders everywhere. It's probably cos he's from texas.
That's what I dont agree with, and dont like to read. A bunch of comments ranging from technically incorrect, through smart-arse digs to
personal insults. Constructive criticism is good, if mostly absent from this thread, but the slagging off is pointless. Even if he really is a
pretentious arse (he does call his car Papillion) the thought that he might be reading this makes me feel slightly ashamed.
Liam
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 12:21 AM |
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If he lived in Cornwall, I would offer to give him a hand with the welding, the design I am not qualified to comment
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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gazza285
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 01:58 AM |
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"What's wrong with the rear? Strong/stiff enough if a little over complicated. Inelegant if you're gonna be picky. Absolutely
nothing wrong with individual straight links instead of wishbones"
Are you taking the piss?
[Edited on 16/1/05 by gazza285]
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internetautomart
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 03:34 AM |
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the rear suspensiondoesn't need wishbones, a pair of staight arms works just fine.
Hell my production car uses a pair of straight arms for the lower part of the IRS. and there's one in texas that hangs with the best of them on
the track.
Let me know if you need parts in the US
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Cita
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 08:19 AM |
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I dont have enough knowledge to critisize the design but i probably would have done a few things differently like turning the upper brackets on the
IRS 90° to give a longer welding area to the frame.
He did reinforce the rails where he drilled holes through so that's not bad thinking i guess.
The welding quality...hmm,we all,except those we know on this forum,could do with some improvement.
The main point was that KB (and others)had some serious thoughts about the front wishbone design and tried to advize the Dr. to change that in order
to avoid serious accidents in the future with that car.
He (the Dr.) did'nt give me the impression that this well meant advize was taken seriously.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 10:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
"What's wrong with the rear? Strong/stiff enough if a little over complicated. Inelegant if you're gonna be picky. Absolutely
nothing wrong with individual straight links instead of wishbones"
Are you taking the piss?
[Edited on 16/1/05 by gazza285]
On this particular car horrendous rear bump/roll steer --- the outside wheel will toe out as the car rolls --- very bad idea.
Also I can't see any viable restaraint against fore-aft forces
[Edited on 16/1/05 by britishtrident]
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 11:06 AM |
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as an ex scrutineer all i can say is if a car built by "whoever" turned up with welds presented in that condition i personally would not
sign my name and allow it to race. allmost all the cars i scrutineer'd where home built (grass track) and the 1st point of call, cos its in your
face was look at the welding, this often gave an indicator as to what the rest of the car was like, welds ground back made you look twice too.
Allmost all our customers specify "leave welds as laid" and at times "unpainted" that way they can be inspected visually, i
accept visual inspection is not the "be all and end all" but working on the principle "if it looks right it prob is" you get
there most of the time. I suspect given a bit of a knock or tug you could pull bars off that chassis, take a look at Hellfires pics, the bars have
broken in places with the welds still intact, i fear in this case the bars would pull out of the weld as there looks to be next to no penertration.
Sorry if i offend but thats my humble opinion.
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