woodster
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 11:59 AM |
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42 days
Do we all really feel safer now that we can be locked up for 42days without charge
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chrsgrain
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 12:05 PM |
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No
Spoing! - the sound of an irony meter breaking...
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DavidM
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 12:08 PM |
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Many of the so called anti terror laws recently being passed in this country, bear a striking resemblance to many that were passed in Nazi Germany in
the years leading up to WW2 and the holocaust.
I have no fear of Terrorism, but serious concerns about this government.
David
Proportion is Everything
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coozer
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 12:09 PM |
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Only need to be worried if your a terrorist or the pigs use it as an excuse.
So either way, pi€€ up a lamppost and your in bother
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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jabbahutt
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 12:13 PM |
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if there are no prison cells to keep current crims in prison where are they going to keep these people for 42 days?
get out Mr Brown, shouldn't you be in the Scottish parliment anyway?
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eznfrank
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 12:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by woodster
Do we all really feel safer now that we can be locked up for 42days without charge
I'm not sure I feel any safer but I'm certainly not threatened by it in any way whatsoever. In the same way that I don't really
care a jot about ID cards and the like, I don't really care if a government body has my fingerprints or retina scans, it's just somethign
that is very very unlikely to ever effect me personally.
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woodster
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 12:48 PM |
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i can understand locking someone up if its proved that they are guilty but locking them up for 6weeks whilst you decide if theres a case doesn't
seem right ..... this can't be the same labour party that fought for workers rights fighting with the unions to free workers from evil bosses
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82 Locost
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 12:51 PM |
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^^^^^
what eznfrank said
I think everybody should have to give DNA to make police investigations easier, then I would feel a little safer.
Oh yes, and if you're caught with a knife you should have a finger cut off with it, and if you're caught with a gun you get shot with it.
And if you're caught with a beer, you should have to drink it. And if you vote for Labour at the next election, you deserve everything those
inept B'stards give you. 
work must be affecting me more than I thought!!!
[Edited on 12/6/08 by 82 Locost]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 01:03 PM |
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Read something the other day that said that were in more danger when the IRA were doing their worst than we are now.
Didn't see many calls for anti-terrorist measures then...
[Edited on 12/6/08 by David Jenkins]
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02GF74
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 01:10 PM |
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interesting speech by David Davis though about why he is standing down.... 
eroding our liberties etc. blah blah
I wonder if they chose 42 because it is the answer to life, the universe and everything?
[Edited on 12/6/08 by 02GF74]
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BenB
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 01:12 PM |
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No way. The whole thing stinks.
If it was 42 days max between arrest and trial that would be one thing.
But six weeks before the police have to produce any evidence at all to suggest you've done anything illegal? BS!!
If there isn't enough evidence after 4 weeks to charge you with something whilst keeping the investigation going the chances are you
haven't done anything wrong. MI6 say they don't need it anyway.
It's BS and just more evidence of this dictatorial state we live in. Oh well, looking at the black skies outside it's the end of the world
anyway.............
Happy days 
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 01:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by eznfrank
I don't really care if a government body has my fingerprints or retina scans, it's just somethign that is very very unlikely to ever
effect me personally.
Until they lose the data. Or sell it to a third party. Or are hacked into. Or decide to change the law yet again and use the data they've been
collecting to do something you do happen to object to. I'm sure the millions of people whos bank details the govt 'misplaced'
thought it wouldn't affect them, right up until they had to change banks or risk being cleared out by whoever got hold of the missing CD.
Let's face it, the government have an absolutely p*ss-poor record on data security, large scale IT projects, and actually doing what they
promise to. I agree with the idea that you've nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong, but only if I can trust that my data is secure
and isn't going to get misused in the future (or present). And I have no trust whatsoever in this government
[Edited on 12/6/08 by martyn_16v]
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02GF74
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 02:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by martyn_16v
Until they lose the data. Or sell it to a third party.
Let's face it, the government have an absolutely p*ss-poor record on data security
don't be so foolish, that would never happen
AGAIN!
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woodster
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 02:30 PM |
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david davis's speech says it all take a minute to watch the video of his speech
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/2116756/David-Davis-resigns-from-Commons-over-42-day-anti-terror-plan.html
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Benzine
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 02:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Read something the other day that said that were in more danger when the IRA were doing their worst than we are now.
I don't know, what about that IRA bomb that went off last week in Belfast? 45 people were stuck to the floor when a No More Nails bomb went
off
[Edited on 12/6/08 by Benzine]
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Spyderman
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 02:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by woodster
..... this can't be the same labour party that fought for workers rights fighting with the unions to free workers from evil bosses
Looks like "New Labour" has become the "evil bosses"!
Whatever happened to "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"?
Obviously they consider the poorer folks as the causes of crime, hence trying to tax them off the roads. If you have an older car you must be a
criminal, therefore we will tax you more. If you can't afford to drive, tough, you have no rights travelling to the better school that you want
your kids to attend. That is only for the wealthy.
If you can't afford to eat healthy, tough sh1t because soon you won't be able to afford to go to the doctors either as we are moving them
all to the wealthy areas.
Oh what a shame you can't afford to drive to the supermarket that is now out of town and there are only charity shops in town. You are poor, you
need the charity shops now!
Now it seems, if they want you arrested and withheld without charge they can do, because you can't afford a decent lawyer to get you off.
The concessions are a joke as well! £3000 for every day you are held without charge. Some trumped up charge however minor will be used to avoid
payment.
How long before these measures are used for non terrorism restraints?
How long before that allowance is changed anyway?
The powers that be already have access to much more information about you than ever before so why would they need more time to access it? The police
already know before they stop you that you don't have tax or insurance. Maybe we will soon be wearing registrations on our forehead so we can be
ID'd if we are away from our cars.
The government can't be trusted with the information they have already, why should we trust them with any more?
In what other industry or business can you set your own wages and expenses and stay employed?
Politics these days stinks of corruption!
If the Government (any Government) can't afford to implement new changes then don't implement them. Don't put in stealth taxes and
hope no one will notice.
I for one am sick and tired of this and the previous governments continual lies about how these taxes are for our benefit. Be honest, they are purely
for revenue.
The Road Fund Licence became Car Road Tax, because very little of it was being used for the roads. It became another revenue for the Government.
If you travel abroad do you pay for using the roads? Yes, it is put onto the fuel costs!
Do foreigners pay to use our roads? They would argue yes through the fuel prices, so if they fill up before they come over and don't buy fuel
here then no they are not, much like a lot of heavy lorries.
Why are we paying higher fuel costs then as well as Car Tax?
It seems that nowhere else are you taxed for owning as well as using a car.
David Davis is the first Politician that has stood up for human rights for a long long time. A shame he never made it to become Tory leader. Enough of
stage rehearsed politicians. Let's get back to grass roots politics!
Sorry for ranting, but I am getting old and grumpy!
Spyderman
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Duncan_P
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 02:45 PM |
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The thing that worries me about this is although it is dubbed an 'Anti Terror Law' it will probably be used (illegally) in much the same
way that a lot of the recent anit terror laws have. In that it will also be used against the general population who are in not way related to
terrorist activity.
So you will potentially have your right to free speak impeded, have your right to public protest impeded or removed and be detained for 6
weeks........all without having anything illegal
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oliwb
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 05:30 PM |
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I just don't trust them. Take a look at the DVLA. First of all there's the data protection act. Sounds good no one can get hold of my
details - good idea that!
Next a loop hole is brought in which means that the police are able to request data held about us if it is to help in a criminal investigation. Again
a good safe idea I would say. Makes sense that they should have access to any information that might incriminate and the decent law abiding people in
this land have nothing to worry about. Then very quietly OUR elected government change the wording from police to interested parties. Which now
means that every tom, dick and harry (namely clampers!) can purchase our details from the DVLA to fine us?! I think its ridiculous and a total abuse
of public trust!
The stupid thing is that this country is so obsessed with the media and the coming and going of fashionable fads that people aren't interested
in real political matters just whether or not replica london buses will remain on the street! I think we will end up like Italy - lots of red tape,
lots of laws and everyone will ignore it (of course they'll still have nicer lady eye candy and better weather!).
And who is to blame for all of this??!! We are - as tax payers and as voters.
Oli.
If your not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 05:46 PM |
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They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review
of Pennsylvania, 1759
Said 249 years ago - not much has changed.
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smart51
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 06:09 PM |
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42 days and ID cards will be the downfall of this government. Perhaps in their way, then, they'll serve a purpose. That is if the opposition
get in on promises to repeal both laws.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 09:08 PM |
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I was dead against the 42 day ruling until an acquaintance of mine who is still in the military mentioned that an officer under cover almost had his
cover blown until the person who recognised him was 'withdrawn from general circulation' for 28 days, but it would have been really useful
to the investigation if he were to be out of sight for longer.
Misuse of the laws, or a necessity?
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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Benzine
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 09:35 PM |
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woodster
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 10:03 PM |
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Mrs T the iron lady god bless her x x x
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MikeR
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| posted on 12/6/08 at 10:05 PM |
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42 days - stinks
ID cards - bring em on, so what, i carry my driving license, health insurance, bank cards. Why not an ID card?
DNA - you're having a laugh. Its trumpted up and programs like CSI give you COMPLETELY the wrong impression. I haven't been round to
NSDevs house in ages - bet they can still find my DNA there. So if something happened and they've found my DNA i must be guilty. Its complete
tosh and the people who do DNA work keep telling the gov to STFU, yet they keep going on about it.
As much as i think people panic over nothing - we are heading in the wrong direction. I've said it hundreds of times, the first law the gov.
should bring in is this ......... all prospective parents MUST go on a parenting class. Don't go and your child is put into foster care until
you do. As its a new law, all parents with children under 16 must also go within the next 4 years. That would make so much difference to society.
After that remove the police targets - bloody waste of effort, time and money. NHS ..... oooh don't get me started the people are great, the
systems and petty politics every does drives you potty (and before someone says anything g/f and all her family work in NHS and i have a great
pleasure of working for a company that has to interface with them).
In fact many times i've wondered about standing cause if believe that if you're prepared to moan you should be prepared to do something
about it (hence always voting).
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 15/6/08 at 12:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
ID cards - bring em on, so what, i carry my driving license, health insurance, bank cards. Why not an ID card?
Because it'll cost £90 and do sweet FA? I would have no problem with it if it would replace my driving license/passport, but it does about as
much for me as my NI card (which I haven't seen since I was 17).
And oh look, they've lost another lot of sensitive data. Two in two weeks...
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