MK9R
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 01:44 PM |
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Not a good shakedown
Well an eventful morning at mallory has resulted in a hole in number 1 cylinder block The damage is at the top of the cylinder and looks like part of
the piston has exited the block, leaving its ppiston rings hanging out the hole. Oil pressure looked fine during the 15 laps I did (watched it all
through gerards and stayed at a constant 70ish. The engine let go half way down the start finish straight, I hadn't over reved it, and
wasn't that high up the rev range (had just changed into 4th exiting the elbo I watched video to back this up). Water and oil temps were all
normal and I had only really just started to push on in the last few laps (about 7 laps into the 3rd session but had been in 2 laps earlier just to
check car over).
So i've got to source another engine, but just worried about it happening again.The car was running standard map so when new engine is in I will
get it on RR to check aand map a commander.
Any thoughts?
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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coozer
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 01:45 PM |
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Fragile, not much use in cars....
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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eddie99
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 01:54 PM |
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I feel the pain for you.... Having our Carbed R1 dropping a valve the other day 3rd lap or so  .... My first call was Andy Bates!!
http://www.elitemotorsporteng.co.uk/
Twitter: @Elitemotoreng
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Elite-Motorsport-Engineering/153409081394323
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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britishtrident
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 02:07 PM |
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Tough luck --- know how it feels
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mrwibble
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 02:08 PM |
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sorry to hear that mate, was this the new r1 that went bang, or the previous, (fireblade?).
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rallyingden
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 02:21 PM |
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Sorry to hear that BUT...........
Where's the link to the video 
RD 
[Edited on 16/3/11 by rallyingden]
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probablyleon
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 02:29 PM |
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I know only too well how that feels, I blew my Blackbird up last summer after only three laps!!! I'm now replacing it with an 06 R1 so I'd
be very interested to hear what the problem was if you ever get to the bottom of it.
Take a deep breath...
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ashg
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 04:23 PM |
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Why would you even attempt to track it without getting it on the rollers first? Looks like you have had to learn the hard way. Sorry if that sounded
harsh. At least bike engines are not hard to change.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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adithorp
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 04:37 PM |
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First...Bad luck. Second... mines done several track days and 3000mile tour of the alps and almost 10000miles totalwithout incident so it's not
a case that it'll go gang. I assume you did the breather mod? Standard fueling might nthave helped. Mine ran weak initialy on the stock map.
When I picked up my new motor I was told of some issues they'd had in SuperBikes of No1 (I think) cylinder/piston failure on early 5VY engine.
Something to do with the coating on the bore??? I'll u2u the guys number; He's a mate of Malc.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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TimC
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 04:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adithorp
First...Bad luck. Second... mines done several track days and 3000mile tour of the alps and almost 10000miles totalwithout incident so it's not
a case that it'll go gang. I assume you did the breather mod? Standard fueling might nthave helped. Mine ran weak initialy on the stock map.
When I picked up my new motor I was told of some issues they'd had in SuperBikes of No1 (I think) cylinder/piston failure on early 5VY engine.
Something to do with the coating on the bore??? I'll u2u the guys number; He's a mate of Malc.
That's interesting to know but I am sure that Austen's motor was a last-of-the-line 5VY.
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 05:19 PM |
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I feel your pain the only other 5VY i read about here letting go in a big way was the guy from Hungary (Gergely)
then the "breather mod" came about
i did two trackdays in mine without having it rolling roaded, had a power commander fitted with a typical exhuast/filter map.
never had any issues after the breather mod.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 07:17 PM |
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It's pointless telling you now but Mallory is not particularly a good choice of track for shaking down a BEC running a standard map  Gerards
has killed quite a few BECs as well as CECs........
Phil
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MK9R
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 08:44 PM |
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Engine now out and partly dismantled, the hole was actually between the short block and crank, not the top, my mistake through my tear filled eyes .
Good news is head is and valves look perfect, thepiston top has a very very small mark on it, big and little end feels perfect, but will know for sure
tomorrow once we have got it off (heads mangled on bolts) but conrod is broken with centre section missing. The crank also looks and feels fine, but
again need to crack case open ad check the journals. I strained the oil when I drained it (still 3 litres of it in engine) and it was clean as a
whistle. So at the moment it looks like a pure conrod fatigue failure, whiCh must have beenpresent in the engine when I had it as I did not strain it
today (my times prove that )
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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adithorp
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| posted on 16/3/11 at 09:24 PM |
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Sometimes things just break and there's nothing you could do about it. Maybe it had been over reved or maybe it was a fault from manufacture.
Either way I'd look at that as a bit of a result; Better it fails now than in qualifing for the first race.
One bit of advice I got with R1's is get it warmed up properly. Apparently the race teams run them up to full temp in the paddock and then
switch off and let it heat soak, before going on track.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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HowardB
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 07:37 AM |
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sorry to hear that, I was looking forward to meeting you at Mallory after your recommendations,..
hope that it all comes back together soon
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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MK9R
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 08:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by HowardB
sorry to hear that, I was looking forward to meeting you at Mallory after your recommendations,..
hope that it all comes back together soon
I'll be there with or without car!!!! 
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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MK9R
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 08:06 AM |
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OK so here are some photos of damage, and a video of the last 2 laps before death. I only noticed this morning the video captures the oil pressure
light (set at 30 PSI) just below the "best time". It flicks on at the hairpin which purely down to the fact that i am banging down 4 gears
with clutch depressed so engine is at tickover RPM so not an issue. I have watched all my laps and the light never flickers, so it wasn't oil
pressure related.
ENGINE DEATH VIDEO
[Edited on 17/3/11 by MK9R]
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Gergely
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 11:51 AM |
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Hi,
Been there, done that, exactly as you, killed the first 5VY engine during a shakedown on track, in about 10 laps.
Have you done the breather mods to the engine? We haven't back then, and that seemed to be the reason for the failure... the engine was spitting
oil out through the top of the engine, and into the airbox, where it was nicely burnt, and after as few as about 15 laps the engine ran dry...
Have a good read through this:
Link
We have made the engine mods - see with photos in the link -, and have also added an oil cooler. Now the engine has not spat any oil out and seems to
work (although I have not been on track since, because of some drivetrain issues I could not solve myself - car went back to MNR and now is soon to
come back to us).
The mods were not our own idea, but taken from road warrior in Australia, and using ideas from Andy Bates, and some racers in the UK as well.
If you have not made the breather mods to the engine, I'm 100% sure that's the reason for your failure, not fatigue.
Where have you vented your crankcase breathers? If directly without mods into the airbox (as on the bike), check for signs of excessive oil. If there
are any, that's the proof. Ours was soaking...
I hope this helps. Good luck!
Gergely
Our build pictures
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Gergely
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 11:55 AM |
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Another thing... I haven't been able to watch your video from the office, but the flickering pressure light could very well be that the engine
was running out of oil, and seized shortly after.
In our case, there is a middle speed (3rd gear) right hand hairpin on the track, and the engine gave up about 200-300 meters afterwards. So if your
engine died roughly the same distance after the hairpin, then that's what killed it.
Gergely
Our build pictures
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MK9R
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 11:56 AM |
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Breather mod done, with a drain plug back into the crank case from the catch tank. There was still 3 litres of oil in the engine when i drained it at
home, and obviously i lost some whole the hole appeared
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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MK9R
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 11:57 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gergely
Another thing... I haven't been able to watch your video from the office, but the flickering pressure light could very well be that the engine
was running out of oil, and seized shortly after.
In our case, there is a middle speed (3rd gear) right hand hairpin on the track, and the engine gave up about 200-300 meters afterwards. So if your
engine died roughly the same distance after the hairpin, then that's what killed it.
Gergely
Only flickered coming into hairpin as engine dropped to idle revs as dropped down 4 gears with clutch depressed. Tick over pressure when hot is 8PSI,
oil light is set at 30.
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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Gergely
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 01:20 PM |
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Well, then it must have been something else then... just thought I'd share my experience...
Our build pictures
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MK9R
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 01:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Gergely
Well, then it must have been something else then... just thought I'd share my experience...
Thanks for input, I just want all scenarios covered and ticked so I can hopefully get an accurate diagnosis
Cheers Austen
RGB car number 9
www.austengreenway.co.uk
www.automatedtechnologygroup.co.uk
www.trackace.co.uk
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 17/3/11 at 05:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
quote:
Originally posted by Gergely
Well, then it must have been something else then... just thought I'd share my experience...
Thanks for input, I just want all scenarios covered and ticked so I can hopefully get an accurate diagnosis
Just looks like a conrod failure to me.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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