J90rdn
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| posted on 31/10/15 at 11:53 PM |
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Jenveys, Webers, or Bike ITB's?
Bought the Avon without engine, gearbox or ECU. Have Zetec mounts and full exhaust so like the idea of going 2.0 Zetec. Did some basic research and a
well trodden path seems to be 45 Jenveys and an Omex600 ECU. Problem is, I can't afford new, and second hand they don't seem to be coming
up.
So what are the alternatives? From what I can see weber carbs are also popular, and would obviously only require ignition ECU. Bike ITB's also
seem popular.
I'm looking to get to around 160+bhp in the first instance, so I'm interested in hearing what the pros and cons are of using webers and
bike ITB's as opposed to Jenveys?
As a side, I have a friend who has some k-series ITB's, but they are only 38mm. If I got the right manifold, how restrictive would they be?
Thanks
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Adamirish
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 12:08 AM |
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I too am keeping my eyes open for a set of 45mm jenveys. As you say, they just don't come up for sale very often.
I think the expense of jenvey or omex itb's is why you see so many bike itb setups. I don't think there is anything wrong with them as
such but do hear people say about the progression from a closed throttle on bike itb's is not exactly progressive! Plenty on here run them so
hopefully they can give you some words of wisdom.
I currently run a set of weber 40's on my crossflow and I think they are excellent. Set up correctly they can be fantastic but can be fiddly
fine tuning. Then you have the old school issue of running a choke(some don't) which can make cold starting/driving err.... Interesting. Mine
have no issues in that department though. Besides, I love the sound of a barking set of webers!
Personally, I am going to keep saving and buy a set of new omex/jenvey tb's unless some 2nd hand ones come up for sale.
Reading back my post, it doesn't help you at all so good luck on your hunt!
MK Indy 1700 Xflow
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snapper
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 07:03 AM |
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Set of bike carbs and a Megajolt
The cheapest way to get you up and running and will produce power not far off an injection set up for a third of the cost
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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Ugg10
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 07:55 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper
Set of bike carbs and a Megajolt
The cheapest way to get you up and running and will produce power not far off an injection set up for a third of the cost
Seconded, had a silvertop 2.0L with the chestersportscars bike carb setup on it and that made around 165hp. Nodiz ecu sems to be the current choice
and you can get a ready made zetec loom for it. Zx6r carbs seem to run well on an unmodified zetec as well.
http://motorsport-electronics.co.uk/zetec-nodiz-complete-kit.html
http://www.chestersportscars.co.uk
Danst also does a carb kit with nodiz.
Ford Zetec E 37mm Bike Carburettor Deluxe Kit
Or there is this. http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=882670
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Mikef
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 11:22 AM |
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Nothing wrong with the bike ITBs, except as people say there is very little progression, from tick over to full throttle, so not so comfortable for
road use. I have run 45 twin Webers, and they perform really well, But would consider it a bit of a backwards step , when you can have injection and
control this by the ECU. 45s dont come cheap either. I have used 2 Nodiz setups and found them first class. So defn Plus one for the bike ITBs and
Nodiz. I would really recommenced fitting a wideband AFR sensor, not a lot of money but really helps with the setup.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 01:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikef
Nothing wrong with the bike ITBs, except as people say there is very little progression, from tick over to full throttle, so not so comfortable for
road use. I have run 45 twin Webers, and they perform really well, But would consider it a bit of a backwards step , when you can have injection and
control this by the ECU. 45s dont come cheap either. I have used 2 Nodiz setups and found them first class. So defn Plus one for the bike ITBs and
Nodiz. I would really recommenced fitting a wideband AFR sensor, not a lot of money but really helps with the setup.
I thought nodiz was ignition only, bike itb's need injection therefore megasquirt, omex, emerald, emu etc. The nodiz is for bike carbs, similar
to megajolt.
Is the progression thing to do with the bike itb's having a smaller quadrant on the throttle cable actuation and therefore you need to move the
throttle pedal pivot point to get the travel back?
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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Jenko
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 03:00 PM |
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If budget is an issue, then go for bike ITB's and megasquirt...But there is a fair bit to do to get them to fit and get it working. Reality is
that going for ITB's is not a budget job anyway. Unless you plan to do some serious tuning, you don't need 45's either. 40's
will be just fine. For ITBs, something like gsxr750 TBs are around 42mm and perfect. The larger the size the more you will see the issue with
throttle snatch....I've done the megasquirt thing which was great, and taught me loads, but I now have an omex 600 mapped by Northampton
motorsport which is works really well.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
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Mikef
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 06:14 PM |
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As far as I know Nodiz do the full Monty now , have a look at their website. I used their ignition only setup as they were so helpful , but I know
there are a lot of people out there with good feed back on Mega squirt. I am using an Emerald now, which I have to say I have found excellent.
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SPYDER
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 09:35 PM |
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I've fitted GSXR 750 ITBs to my 3SGE engined car.
The throttle progression (or lack of) problem can be sorted by fitting a larger diameter pulley then offsetting its centre from that of the tiny
standard one.
I've got about 70mm of cable travel. The effective diameter of the pulley decreases as the throttle is applied giving a rising rate.
I turned a full disc on the lathe then cut some away to give the "D" shape. Its centre of rotation is in the middle of the four little
bolts that fix it to the existing pulley. All this means, of course, that the cable angle changes as you push the throttle so I used a little rose
joint at the outer cable end to allow for this.
It works a treat. Lots of throttle movement at low throttle openings.
Disc diameter has to be carefully chosen to give the correct angle change with whatever cable travel you have.
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richard munnis
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 11:03 PM |
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above
Nice piece of work
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Adamirish
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 11:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SPYDER
I've fitted GSXR 750 ITBs to my 3SGE engined car.
The throttle progression (or lack of) problem can be sorted by fitting a larger diameter pulley then offsetting its centre from that of the tiny
standard one.
I've got about 70mm of cable travel. The effective diameter of the pulley decreases as the throttle is applied giving a rising rate.
I turned a full disc on the lathe then cut some away to give the "D" shape. Its centre of rotation is in the middle of the four little
bolts that fix it to the existing pulley. All this means, of course, that the cable angle changes as you push the throttle so I used a little rose
joint at the outer cable end to allow for this.
It works a treat. Lots of throttle movement at low throttle openings.
Disc diameter has to be carefully chosen to give the correct angle change with whatever cable travel you have.
That looks ace! Out of interest, are you running a type 9 box? Sorry, I don't want to steal the thread!
MK Indy 1700 Xflow
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SPYDER
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 11:22 PM |
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I used to run the Toyota T50 5 speed.
It now runs the AZ6 6 speed.
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Adamirish
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| posted on 1/11/15 at 11:28 PM |
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Cool! Nice to see something different.
Ok thread, as you were!
MK Indy 1700 Xflow
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mcerd1
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| posted on 2/11/15 at 08:15 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikef
As far as I know Nodiz do the full Monty now , have a look at their website. I used their ignition only setup as they were so helpful , but I know
there are a lot of people out there with good feed back on Mega squirt. I am using an Emerald now, which I have to say I have found excellent.
is this the bit you read:
quote:
The NODIZ Pro™ is a state of the art microprocessor controlled digital stand-alone, fully mappable ignition controller for 4, 6 or 8 cylinder
spark ignition engines. It can be used either to replace older distributor based ignition systems for more modern coil packs, or even to allow the
running of carburettors on more modern engines which do not feature a distributor drive.
"stand-alone" in this contect means it doesn't need any other ignition controllers (like the ford EDIS unit that the current
megajolt needs)
I don't see any suggestion on there site that it can run fuel injection....
-
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SJ
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| posted on 2/11/15 at 09:14 AM |
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I'll 2nd bike carbs. I have respaced ZX6R carbs and Megajolt and they work great. Very reliable and great drivability.
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J90rdn
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| posted on 3/11/15 at 12:45 AM |
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WOW - thanks for all the replies. I now know a lot more on this matter :-)
Thanks for the above links. Going to have a long hard think about which way to go.
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J90rdn
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| posted on 17/11/15 at 11:59 PM |
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Thanks for everyones input. I was on the look out for GSXR throttle bodies when I managed to find a set of Jenvey 45's for a very reasonable
price, and on a genuine Jenvey Zetec manifold - result
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Adamirish
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| posted on 18/11/15 at 12:05 AM |
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Excellent! If you don't mind me asking, where did you find them? I have my eyes on eBay but very rarely see them.
MK Indy 1700 Xflow
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J90rdn
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| posted on 18/11/15 at 12:10 AM |
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eBay. Don't think they were on very long - they were on a buy it now. I had a search saved which emailed me when anything with the word
"jenny" in the title was listed, but to be honest it seemed to take about 24 hours to send me an email. Just by pure luck I happened to be
searching and these had just been posted.
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Adamirish
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| posted on 18/11/15 at 12:13 AM |
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Ah ok, thanks for the info. I mustn't be trying hard enough! I will set something up.
You have the right kit, you won't go far wrong with those. Good luck with your setup.
MK Indy 1700 Xflow
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mackei23b
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| posted on 18/11/15 at 01:36 PM |
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I too got lucky and managed to get a second hand set of Jenvey 45 SFS's on an inlet manifold.
These are attached to a Duratec, running with ST170 injectors and controlled by a Megaquirt III.
 
Description
Cheers
Ian
[Edited on 18/11/15 by mackei23b]
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stevec33
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| posted on 2/1/16 at 06:30 PM |
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Is there any difference between the outright power a set of bike itb's will make compared to jenvey 45's on the same spec engine?
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