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Author: Subject: Buying a house - Planning Permission / views
ash_hammond

posted on 28/6/16 at 09:03 AM Reply With Quote
Buying a house - Planning Permission / views

I would assume someone has come across this type of issue before and I would like their advice please.

We are moving house, the chain is STC, so currently we are in the process of completing all the paperwork and surveys etc.

One of the real plus points we liked about the house, is the fact the side and rear of the garden/house looks over a nice farmers field. Also, I'm sure the price of the house took this into account.

I've really asked the solicitor to do their homework, I want to make ensure as much as we can (I understand we can never be 100% on this) that no planning or potential plans are underway to build or extend the estate onto this land and we swap our nice view for a brick wall.

What questions should I be asking?
I've looked on the local council planning portal and nothing is planned / submitted.
Can we check the type of land eg. green built.

I just need to make sure I have asked the right questions, rather than the solicitor saying "well you never asked."

Thanks
Ash







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Jeano

posted on 28/6/16 at 09:14 AM Reply With Quote
You can check its greenbelt, however thats never a guarantee. They built a traveller location for 1 home at the bottom of our road (2miles away) which was on the green belt of Epping forest.
The thing is you never know what the future holds and the council can change there minds to reach demand.
Things you can look at.

Local Authority Plans They have development frameworks where they mark land for the next 5-10 years for development (some of this usually is greenbelt)

Land Registry you can purchase a copy of the title of the land for about 4 off land registry for the land and find out who the owner is and therefore gauge what may happen. If its a farmer you would be safe. Finding out Barratts own it however could raise red flags.
As I said they are things that may give you piece of mind but you never know!

All the best with the Move!
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loggyboy

posted on 28/6/16 at 09:33 AM Reply With Quote
Check the council website for local policies and adopted plans.

I.e my local council have these:
https://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/planningpolicy
https://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/adopted-policies-map

It will need some digging but will give you a long term idea if there are any plans to develop. As above there are no guarantees though.






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nick205

posted on 28/6/16 at 10:04 AM Reply With Quote
Your local planning office may be helpful to you - mine was when I had to get permission to add a conservatory. The guy was able to tell me if anyone else in my street had made an application.






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mookaloid

posted on 28/6/16 at 11:18 AM Reply With Quote
You can be sure if you buy the field





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ash_hammond

posted on 28/6/16 at 11:46 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
You can be sure if you buy the field


Great Idea... I will get my just giving page ready right now.







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lsdweb

posted on 28/6/16 at 11:54 AM Reply With Quote
You should be able to view any current planning applications via the Planning Portal - https://www.planningportal.co.uk/ This isn't a time machine though!

Wyn

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coyoteboy

posted on 28/6/16 at 11:56 AM Reply With Quote
You have no right to a view, and there's no way of knowing if someone is going to convert that field into housing in 2 years time (and the moment they choose to, no-one else will pay a premium for it). My advice would be that if the house is backing onto anything that might be built on, don't assume it won't and don't pay extra for it.

That said, the likelihood is going to be pretty small unless it's in commuter-belt with a dire local housing status. Look for big businesses opening in the area too, like Tesco - they often come with a requirement of building houses.

[Edited on 28/6/16 by coyoteboy]





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Chris_Xtreme

posted on 28/6/16 at 12:05 PM Reply With Quote
going off from the original question a bit -

my parents bought the field next them their house for this exact reason.

~10yrs ago, blind auction. they put in 40k and got it from a farmer.

the deeds say that if they change the purpose of the land, or even just increase it's potential value then the farmer gets 50% of the increase. This came with a 25yr tie in.

so if they got planning permission on the land, but did not build, they would need to probably at today's money hand over half a mill plus to the farmer. This puts off some development. (they are nr buckingham buckinghamshire)

this all depends on the deeds for the land in the small print. you might be able to see this in the land registry details to know what the situation is, but as someone said, nothing would be stopping them trying to put up 100 homes on the site, or few big ones. they have a land owner over the road who is getting his way even tho every one in the village doesn't want any houses in the field, but the council are edging towards yes. they already said yes to a barn against everyone's no thanks.

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gregs

posted on 28/6/16 at 05:16 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
You can be sure if you buy the field


+1 and not as daft as it sounds....

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ash_hammond

posted on 28/6/16 at 05:21 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gregs
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
You can be sure if you buy the field


+1 and not as daft as it sounds....


With rough google maps measurements it would be 61 acres.... probably out of my price range once the house is purchased.

I do get what you mean though.







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ReMan

posted on 28/6/16 at 05:25 PM Reply With Quote
Good question, as said before nothing is OT here!

I'm particularly interested in the answers as were looking to move and my prerequisite is room for a 3-4 car garage either built or space, which in itself these days is practically a building plot.
So not dissimilarly also interested in the options of converting field space into garage space, ore even how easy it is to buy a small piece of field for a house build, or to place a barn on that then does not become an estate.

I suspect as mentioned there's no guarantees unless you buy them
Good luck too





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Sam_68

posted on 29/6/16 at 07:51 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
Check the council website for local policies and adopted plans.

I.e my local council have these:
https://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/planningpolicy
https://www.basingstoke.gov.uk/adopted-policies-map

It will need some digging but will give you a long term idea if there are any plans to develop. As above there are no guarantees though.


This is the best answer; not just adopted policy and Local Plan though, but potentially emerging policy and assessment work, too. In particular look for a document called the SHLAA (pronounced 'schlar'; it stands for Strategic Housing Land Availability Assessment).

It's a highly specialised job though: trying to make sense of this sort of stuff is very hard work indeed, if you're not used to the legal frameworks and jargon that go along with it.

If you're really serious, then employ a good Planning Consultant who specialises in Planning Policy (NOT a Solicitor) to do the research for you and to prepare a summary report. It would cost a few hundred pounds.

If you're really, really serious, then U2U me... my architectural practice employs one of the best Policy Planners I've come across in 30 years in the business (which is why we employ her, of course!), and we'd be more than capable of doing this work for you.

As Loggyboy says, there are never any cast-iron guarantees, particularly into the distant future, but a decent Planning Consultant will be able to give you a clear indication of the development potential of the site in the short to medium term.

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ashg

posted on 29/6/16 at 04:43 PM Reply With Quote
Sometimes you have to play smart

regardless of if you can afford it or not, ask the farmer if he would consider selling it to you. if he says yes then you have your answer not to buy the house.

if he says no then you know your safe. if he says no live him your contact details and say to him that if he ever wants to sell it you will buy it. even if you don't have the money or never intend to buy it he will think you want to buy it and give you a heads up that hes looking to sell before anything bad happens, giving you the opportunity to move before the storm.





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Neville Jones

posted on 29/6/16 at 05:43 PM Reply With Quote
Something I learned recently is a thing called an 'option to purchase'.

This is an agreement between the landholder and a prospective purchaser, and doesn't have to be legally recorded anywhere but in a solicitors files.

This only came about during a chat with the young farmer who farms the land adjacent to my property, when he told me that every bit of farm land adjoining the developed areas around here, had an option on it from one of two developers. He told me that the family took the money, which is non refundable, for an option for twenty years. He says the land will always be owned by his family, as that was the wording of the will that left it to them.

But these things can be changed. So, ask if there are any purchase options on the bit you have a view over.

'Land Banking' is another that's cropped up. Wealthy investors buying chunks of farmland on the off chance it could be worth a lot in future, or just appreciate better than bank interest. Then they cover it with solar panels, and get big tax write offs. Scum!

Cheers,
Nev.

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Sam_68

posted on 29/6/16 at 06:30 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
Something I learned recently is a thing called an 'option to purchase'.

This is an agreement between the landholder and a prospective purchaser, and doesn't have to be legally recorded anywhere but in a solicitors files.



Developers don't lay out money on Option agreements for fun, though.

They do it so that they can then promote the land through the Planning system, and they won't do it unless that process stands some chance of success. Although the Option agreement itself may be confidential, therefore, both the prospect of success and the 'footprint' left by any attempt to promote the land for inclusion the Local plan are something that a competent Planning Consultant can pick up.

Ditto 'land banking'. Although there is the occasional naive idiot who will be sold land as an 'investment' that has no realistic prospect of development in the foreseeable future, most people will only buy when there is a reasonable chance of it coming forward in a measurable length of time, and will then start to try promote it through the Planning process, which leaves a trace. Of course a simple title check can help pick this up, too, as unlike an Option it requires a land transaction to take place that is logged at the Land Registry. If it's registered to a development company in the Cayman Islands, you know you've got problems.

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Neville Jones

posted on 30/6/16 at 09:22 AM Reply With Quote
The greedy scum who went around handing out money on options came unstuck here, because they thought that they could appeal to the govt, (easy peasy they thought)who then referred it back to local. And you don't screw with locals, particularly when most of them are related and even moreso in the farming community. Those ooh arrrhhh dozey sounding yokels aren't as silly as the London smartarses thought.

End result is farmers with houses in Florida and no plans whatsoever of selling their farm land that's been held in the families for hundreds of years. In fact, they have grouped as a consortium, and grow some of the best prime beef eaten in London restaurants.

Same with Land Banking. The farm land around here has been going up quicker than inflation and bank interests. When the developer got told very plainly that he would never get permission in the lives of the present council, he appealed, and guess what? Got referred back to local... His proposal was outside of the County Plan, so he ended up having to sell back to the locals he bought it from, because all the greedy bastards who may have wanted to buy it, became aware they'd never make an easy profit on it.

So, land registry searches are the easy bit, but ask the landowner about options, and watch the look on his face. That look may tell you what you want to know, more than the words that come out.

Cheers,
Nev

[Edited on 30/6/16 by Neville Jones]

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ash_hammond

posted on 11/7/16 at 09:40 AM Reply With Quote
Well, what can I say. Disappointed is probably the best I can muster.

We have been looking for a house for 18 months now and we finally found the house we were willing to settle down in the for next 20+ years, the family home before we down size etc.

Since my original post a few things have come to light. One of the fields behind the house is on the councils development plans (nothing granted yet) for 350 dwellings to be build. This will be about 80 to 100m from our house.

The biggest kicker for me is, as of Friday last week, we found out the new HS2 route. It will run in the opposite field and be within 400 to 600 meters of our new house. Fortunately, we have not signed anything yet.

Advise and opinions welcomed.

#gutted







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perksy

posted on 11/7/16 at 09:56 AM Reply With Quote
You must be gutted, I know I would be

So a high speed railway line on the one side and the possibility of 350 houses on the other

Sadly I think you know the answer and will have to continue the search


Some friends of ours bought a lovely detached bungalow a couple of years ago with lovely views over open countryside, Even built a raised decking to enjoy the view.
They now look over 100 houses, To say they are gutted is an understatement, They tried all the usual appeal avenues and attended all the public meetings but the developers were well versed and had all the answers ready.

As said above there's no guarantees...

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Chris_Xtreme

posted on 11/7/16 at 09:58 AM Reply With Quote
sorry to hear that for you.. but at least you found out now.

hunt on, there will be another that you will find that you will be happy with.

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loggyboy

posted on 11/7/16 at 10:10 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ash_hammond
The biggest kicker for me is, as of Friday last week, we found out the new HS2 route. It will run in the opposite field and be within 400 to 600 meters of our new house. Fortunately, we have not signed anything yet.



I didn't think anything was confirmed north of B'ham yet?






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ash_hammond

posted on 11/7/16 at 10:54 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by ash_hammond
The biggest kicker for me is, as of Friday last week, we found out the new HS2 route. It will run in the opposite field and be within 400 to 600 meters of our new house. Fortunately, we have not signed anything yet.



I didn't think anything was confirmed north of B'ham yet?


You're correct, nothing is set in stone. The new "lower cost" route they unveiled on Friday goes past my new house, so currently we are mostly in the cross hairs out of the pool of people.

From what I understand, now the route has been "advised", if we buy the property we wont qualify for any compensation due to the fact we went into it with our eyes open and aware of the facts.







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sdh2903

posted on 11/7/16 at 01:38 PM Reply With Quote
The old saying that there's plenty more fish in the sea is very true.

We were looking for 3 years for our first house that was big enough in the school catchment we wanted that we could afford. We found 2 perfect houses that we fell in love with. The first the sellers were basically arse holes who had pulled out of the sale 3 times after agreeing a price and they did the same with us. The second we were outbid on a sealed bid by 250 quid!

After that we were devastated and lost interest in looking. However 3 weeks later we found a house that was over budget but the sellers had found another property to buy. We viewed and sat down with a coffee with the 2 nicest people you'd wish to buy from. Straight and honest and we basically told them our budget and they agreed to sell as long as we could move quickly. 6 weeks later we were in. And looking back it's the best property of the 3.

Don't accept something now and regret it later. It will cost you In the long run.

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coozer

posted on 11/7/16 at 02:01 PM Reply With Quote
No chance of it not happening...

Farm up the road from me belongs to a dude who for donkeys years has been trying to get planning for his fields. Local planning office have always knocked him back and had a big fight with him when he converted chicken sheds into bungalow.. They always said it was green belt and a barrier between the two towns...

Now he's getting on and low behold selling everything on... The very field he couldn't do anything with has been sold to a developer who now has planning for 500 homes!

He's also selling his chicken shed for 425,000

Fields to the west have also seen a sign put up with planning for domestic development...

Whether it happens who knows but what was definitive green belt before is now sitting with planning for thousands of homes!





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