If you lend your car to a freind, what would be the aggrement should the car be damaged?

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A couple if times i have been in a situation where I could do someone a favor by allowing them to drive my car.

This includes close and or girl freinds borrowing the car to get somewhere when they either dont have one or done currently have access to theres. And also to slightly less close freinds for use at an autotest event or trackday either because they dont have a car or they would like to try a lap in mine.

So far, other than once when my mum drove the car, and one person who did a lap of some private ground in the kitcar with my in passenger seat i have not not let anyone borrow the car but this has as much been because ive not thought of what agreement to come to as part of the loan.

Obviously they would need to be insured, either by being added to my policy or being covered by there own but this is fairly easy.



What concerns me is who would pay or do the work should the car be damaged.

The kitcar is worth around £4000 and is insured fully comp so if they where on my insurence i could just get it professionally repaired and take the hit on increased premiums or whatever. Or if it was minor, i could do the work and charge parts only? Bodywork could be an expense as the colours not avilable and its basicaly one-peice. And i love it so i would be less likely to lend it anyway.

The peugoet however is only worth £1000ish and as its only insured TPFT if i had a crash in it i would either repair it myself or if it was bad enough, break it for parts and sign the remaider over as scrap as i have done once already.
- however if someone else was driving it at the time, again most likly TPFT, what would i do?
- to book it if for profesional repair would most likely be costly and or write it off
- yet for me to do the work on it myself and just charge parts would leave me out of pocket for the time spent?

And ofcause on a trackday nothing is insured anyway...



On one leval im happy to come to an agreement on each case depending on whats actaully happened, but i wouldnt be happy going ahead with the lend without some form of 'ground rules' previously as its too much money to pottenially loose and expirence shows that when moneys envoled even good freind can become unreasonable and i wouldnt want things to get sour over a bent car!


Bit of a long post (can you tell im at work and everyone else in the office is on a snow-day) but thoughts welcomed.


Daniel

[Edited on 1/12/2010 by dhutch]

Bend it you buy it simple.

If you are worried about "agreements" and so on best not to let anybody else drive it.

And I doubt you want to get friends to sign a legal agreement before letting them drive the car.

I drive other peoples cars on my insurance (TPFT), and if I had an accident I guess I would help out re losses. But no way could I fork out £4000, I would assume there was some kind of cover. Flipside, others drive my cars. If anything happened, I would hope they would be fair and help out, but if they couldn't (or wouldn't) it is really my hard luck I guess. But I only let people I am happy with drive the car....(including PCT's and autosolo's!)
Bear in mind an accident's costs are rarely just the repairs. If bad, you can get stiffed for all sorts of costs like recovery/storage and so on. Many of which may be outside your control.

Bend it you mend it is our principle!

I personally would not lend my car to anyone, particulary if they want to thrash it. I would not also like to borrow someones car as I would feel so guilty if something happened to it even if it was not my fault. I was once lent an Austin A35 rally car for a classic event and the engine blew up, have never lived it down even though the owner said the engine was due for a rebuild. If a close relative or family member was really stuck I would consider it but only if they were fully insured, even then if they wreck your car you would be deprived of it. As for your question "what would be the arrangement if your car is damaged when on loan" I would suggest that if the damage is small they pay you cash for the repairs, if it go's to insurance they then pay any excess costs.

[Edited on 1/12/10 by LBMEFM]

The best way is to not lend.

Everything is OK, until something happens, then it all falls apart.

Difficult one really. I always shy away from anything like that where it could get very messy between friends and family if something went wrong.

For the track scenario the only way I can see it working is on the understanding (written/signed preferably) that if they bend it they're liable for all costs involved in restoring or replacing it.

For the road car scenario at sub £1k value I think you have to consider the risk pretty low and just insist on TPFT cover as you have yourself.

I have friends and relatives who I'd be comfortable lending a car to and others I wouldn't for various reasons, some on ability to drive and others on ability to pay! My tintop is a company vehicle which precludes other people from driving it - except for my BIL who works with me and doesn't have a company vehicle and therefore asks persitently to borrow it on the weekend and seems to think it fills itself with fuel!

1 rule
crash it you cash it
(i make it very clear if you get a loan of anything that is mine and it dont come back as i gave it to you i will want a new one )
i hate giving out my tools are they never clean them and i go mental

quote:

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Originally posted by cliftyhangerIf you are worried about "agreements" and so on best not to let anybody else drive it.

And I doubt you want to get friends to sign a legal agreement before letting them drive the car.

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Anyone can borrow my tin top (company car so I don't give a toss )

A '7' with no traction control, RWD, high power to weight ratio, I can't think of many people I would lend to with the experience to drive it.

An accident waiting to happen.

I would only let two people drive mine on the road, and maybe three or four on a track.

Dad and Brother on the road with me in the car would be fine. Of course they would need to be insured, though probably only third party on their policies. Either way i know it would get paid for / repaired.

If you bend it you mend it.

This is of course still dependant, Id be happy with a scrapyard wing in the right colour and a secondhand arch trim for instance, others would insist on new.

If someone bent my track car Id be wanting more than just parts, my time building it has no value, but my time in the middle of a track season to do repairs does.

I guess thats why I almost never hammer other peoples cars and rarely borrow anything I cant afford to replace.

Tim C (on here) crashed his mates Elise. I think Tim shelled out £4k to repair it.

You may see a different side to your mates when serious money is involved, even with a legal document.

Not everyone would front up like Tim and sort the car.

Anyone who hasn't driven such a thing before will quickly come unstuck.

No go as far as I'm concerned.

Folks who have expereince of 'our' type of car probably would not want to borrow, for all of the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread.

I was offered a double drive in a fellow Sylva owner's car earlier in the year.
I found it quite difficult to deal with. If it's worth driving, you've got to stand on it to make the experience worthwhile.
If you break it, well that's very tricky. I can't afford to fix someone else's car, far less my own.

I'll drive mine, you drive yours is the best approach. And if you don't have one but want to drive one, then you better start building / buying.

Nice and simple.

Sheds are different.

Simple, if you borrow it and crash it, you pay for the repairs, I did when i shunted my sisters Merc ML(although I'm convinced the tw@t in front slammed is brakes on to put an over inflated claim in).

i have a simple rule for all things like this. dont loan what you cant afford to lose. works for money cars etc etc

Always lend my cars to my mated as long as they have insurance. The do the same for me.

dont lend or borrow anymore, i lent a friend my car and so as not to fall out over fuel i filled it up and just said bring it bac full , anyway i get a phone call and he says he cant turn ignition off and wantng to know if i knew about it , anyway he carries on his journey and what he did was just stall it then disconnect battery then to start it he arked it ascross starter motor , he also with messing about let it run down a drive into a wall , anyway he brought it back dumped it in my yard saying he would fix it , that was the last i saw of him then to add insult to injury when i put a new ignition switch on what comes onbut the diesel light not enough in to get to filling station ,, friends who needs em ,,,,oh also with disconecting battery i lost radio code ad could not find code so had to shell out for replacment code ,, so dont lend anything anymore,,, you soon find out who your real friends are ,,,,

funny how many relationships turn sour at the mend it stage, my old chap always said lend a friend lose a friend. Any real friend wouldn't ask you would offer.

Legally i t would be difficult as they would be covered 3rd party only at best, at worst not insured to drive another car so no cover and you get shafted by th elaw for allowing them to drive so pick up points and a fine for no insurance,.

Its a minefiels

I let my big brother have a go on my Harley. He promptly dropped it right in front of me on Blackpool prom. £3700 worth of damage. He did the honourable thing and paid out in full from his own pocket. I felt quite rough about the whole thing. Lesson learnt, don't lend anything to anyone unless fully insured. He also had my leather jacket on too which suffered some great scuff marks. It makes me look extra tough in the pub!!!

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Originally posted by austin man
Any real friend wouldn't ask you would offer.

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I have had my car on the road 4 years now and only 2 people have driven it, me and the SVA tester and thats the way it will stay. I would never let anyone drive it even with me in the other seat.
Steve.

I agree with those who say dont lend it out - simple as that. Its easy to say they'll pay for any damage - until they end up with a £10k bill if they write it off............then what happens?? You end up losing a friend over it potentially, they then refuse to pay, and you end up with no legal rights to pursue them for damages caused. I'd be very wary lending my car for use on the road with full insurance cover - never mind uninsured on an event / track day!!

with my group of friends it was always "the 3 B's". Borrow it, bend it, buy it. Simples. That said, i dont remember anyone bending anyone elses car, so it never came to that.

We always lent cars between ourselves, and also did the 'friends and family recovery service', so no one ever needed breakdown cover

I let mates drive the CEC when i was in it, but could never ever lend the BEC as its too much of an aquired skill.

I wouldnt let a mate drive off in my kit because there is no reason to let them - with a tin top, people borrow them because they need to get about. Not so with a kit car.

I've got experience of this. Borrowed a good mate's Mondeo Estate about 2 years ago as I had to move something - can't remember what - and I didn't have my Audi then. A guy drove straight into the back of me whilst I was stationary at the traffic lights.

Keep in mind my mate paid about £500 for this car, it was already held together with gaffa tape, and was previously a cat D. He used to drive it like he'd stolen it.

Didn't do much other than putting a big crack in the rear bumper, and even thought I knew he didn't give a toss about the car I still felt guilty as hell telling him.

Claimed on the third party's insurance, obviously had to tell mine. I was concerned that they'd try to wiggle out of it as I was under the 'third party extension' but they were good as gold. They said they would write the car off for the second time but in the end I got them to pay out £350 and we keep the car. Of course, I gave the cash to him. He just stuck gaffa tape over it (matched the rest of the car!) and pocketed the money.

Great thing was they didn't record the write off, so it didn't need the VIC check, insurance notification, anything. He just got £350 in his back pocket lending me the car for the afternoon. Result all round really!

Chris

Me and my (petrohead) mates work on a couple of principles.

If you help build it you can drive it, but only on the you bend it you fix it principle..

quote:

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Originally posted by zilspeed
Anyone who hasn't driven such a thing before will quickly come unstuck.

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As above, I too only have one mate who I would consider safe to be let loose with a 7, having driven too many RWD sports cars than I care to remember, he would be the only person I class as safe as me behind the wheel.

As regards lending goes, my granmother had a great saying " Never a lender or borrower be" for all the reasons that folks have mentioned.

Only lend it to someone if you are quite happy paying to repair it should they damage it.

Stu

Both my brothers borrow mine.

Younger brother I know will tool it around but he can afford to replace it if needs be.
The other (my twin) could fix it himself while lending me one of his spare cars and also can afford to replace it. (Or maybe the trike he has just finished building)

The moral of this story is i'm the only one that can't afford to tool my own car around :-)

Dan

Bit of a JCB job on this thread isnt it!?