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Author: Subject: Carbonfiber bodywork
MadMaxx

posted on 30/11/16 at 07:03 AM Reply With Quote
Carbonfiber bodywork

Has anybody esperienced home made Fury carbon fiber bodywork?





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FuryRebuild

posted on 1/12/16 at 09:08 AM Reply With Quote
It's on the list as part of the diet my car is undergoing. However, i'm still finishing off the CF tub.

The side pods are especially heavy.





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MadMaxx

posted on 1/12/16 at 09:50 AM Reply With Quote
Having fixed some cracks and distorsions and asimmetry in the fiber glass bodywork its now heavy and I' evaluating to produce new light one without faults. So the idea of Carbon version once undestand the total cost, both for material and mould necessary even if low-cost home made.

How many layers of which wheight each one and how much epoxy resin are my questions in these days as well as hoven parameters. Hence request of other experiences





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jeffw

posted on 1/12/16 at 10:36 AM Reply With Quote
BGH Geartech had a classic Fury Carbon body made..it is sitting in someones garage currently (BGH garage).





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FuryRebuild

posted on 1/12/16 at 11:49 AM Reply With Quote
I'm on the lemans light-weight bonnet.

For the side-pods:

I'd be looking to do one outer layer of 300, and a second layer of either 200 or 300 depending on if I really wanted to save all the weight. I think there's about 1.5m squared of cloth in each side-pod. outside and a 2mm core in parts. On the other side of the core I'd do another two layers of 300. It would also use resin infusion to do it.

You need a minimum of 2 layers of carbon on the outer layer to avoid seeing through to the core. I think 300 slightly has the edge cosmetically - the weave is slightly more prominent. You could go a little cheaper and back the inner layer in e-glass rather than CF if you wanted - it would still be light, but it wouldn't be a strong part - purely cosmetic.

Resin uptake is about 30-40% resin to cloth. So, a side-pod would probably need 6m of cloth, at 300gsm, and say 1m of core such as soric at about 300gsm as well. All in, a side-pod could be fettled for about 3kg each. That's with 150 of cloth and probably 25 of resin.

That doesn't include making the mould, and time spent making the part cosmetic enough to take an acceptable mould from.





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MadMaxx

posted on 1/12/16 at 12:58 PM Reply With Quote
Not particoularly interested to cosmetics because I will anyway paint the bodywork, loving classic vintage shape of Fury and classic colours livery. Just want to lighten. Don't mind the time invested being my leasure time.





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FuryRebuild

posted on 1/12/16 at 06:29 PM Reply With Quote
True, but whatever surface you either paint or gel-coat, it has to be good enough to give a reasonable finish. A bad surface will only show up in the paint. I find the surface prep to be very satisfying.





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Sam_68

posted on 1/12/16 at 06:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
True, but whatever surface you either paint or gel-coat, it has to be good enough to give a reasonable finish. A bad surface will only show up in the paint. I find the surface prep to be very satisfying.


There's always the option of a wrap, these days?

What methods of moulding do you have in mind, Maxx?

My old FW400 had full CF bodywork (the only one done with CF bodywork to go with the CF tub), but it was done in wet lay-up with polyester resin.
I had the chance to compare it directly to one of the other cars, done with GRP bodywork, and subjectively I'd say that the main bonnet moulding felt about 2/3rds the weight in CF and was maybe twice as stiff... so better, but not a monumental difference.

For the difference to be really impressive, you need to do it in pre-preg epoxy, vac-bagged/autoclaved.

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FuryRebuild

posted on 1/12/16 at 07:13 PM Reply With Quote
I have a friend who has a wrapping company, and he's pretty much of the opinion that the surface prep is stil crucial - most surface imperfections will show through the wrap, and can be emphasised even.

With regards to the different layup techniques, pre-preg is going to be lighter for sure than wet-lay. Also you'll be pre-preg with epoxy, which will be much stronger.

There are considerations to pre-preg which are normally you struggle to get as good a surface finish as you may with infusion. Often there can be small surface holes - pinpricks. The talc or wax test revealed these. I think a company like easy composites now do a cosmetic pre-preg which has a higher resin load. Pre-preg was designed to take some of the craft-work and error from the composites process over and above resin-infusion. The resin load is already sorted and the parts can be machine cut (either laser or wheel) and assembled as a pattern with instructions. Aerospace companies pioneered it to reduce waste and decrease rejected parts. In essence, pre-preg was designed so less skilled labour could adopt a production line process. So in one aspect it is better in as much as less parts are rejected.

Resin infusion when done properly can achieve a better surface finish and equally well consolidated parts. Again, the resin load is just as predictable if you hold it under vacuum until the resin gels off. The resin at the correct temp (see the appropriate technical data sheet) will have a carefully formulated viscosity and when pulled through the part under vacuum and allowed to drain out in the catch-pot, will leave only the right amount of resin in the part, and will achieve full consolidation.

You can do pre-preg badly (not compressing and rollering it well enough, letting the pre-preg go off over its age) or leaving bridges, just as you can with infusion (bridges, not getting a full bag seal and dragging air into the part).

So, there is no necessary better output between pre-preg and resin infusion. One is easier and one achieves a better surface finish if your mould can deliver the surface.





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motorcycle_mayhem

posted on 2/12/16 at 12:35 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
I'm on the lemans light-weight bonnet.

I'd be looking to do one outer layer of 300, and a second layer of either 200 or 300 depending on if I really wanted to save all the weight. I think there's about 1.5m squared of cloth in each side-pod. outside and a 2mm core in parts. On the other side of the core I'd do another two layers of 300. It would also use resin infusion to do it.

You need a minimum of 2 layers of carbon on the outer layer to avoid seeing through to the core. I think 300 slightly has the edge cosmetically - the weave is slightly more prominent. You could go a little cheaper and back the inner layer in e-glass rather than CF if you wanted - it would still be light, but it wouldn't be a strong part - purely cosmetic.

Resin uptake is about 30-40% resin to cloth. So, a side-pod would probably need 6m of cloth, at 300gsm, and say 1m of core such as soric at about 300gsm as well. All in, a side-pod could be fettled for about 3kg each. That's with 150 of cloth and probably 25 of resin.

That doesn't include making the mould, and time spent making the part cosmetic enough to take an acceptable mould from.


How essential is the Lantor Soric? I'm currently making two (very good) moulds for a single seater (race application) - one for the floor and the other for the sidepods. The floor mould is finished, but still green (vinylester tooling), so almost there...
The floor will require Soric - I believe, but is it common practice to use a core on sidepods? They're not essentially structural, only there to support the floor edges and guide the air into the radiator and oil cooler.

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FuryRebuild

posted on 2/12/16 at 01:02 PM Reply With Quote
I tend to use sonic for a couple of reasons:


  1. as a core that needs to work in a curved part
  2. as an insert into a part for a hard point, which wouldn't be as strong as an aluminium hard point


if your floor is flat, then sonic probably isn't the right answer. I would always use closed-cell foam for that (don't forget to cross-drill and score so the resin gets through both sides).

You don't need a lot to go far - I made an apprentice piece which was a symmetrical sandwich of two layers of 200gsm carbon and one layer of 300gsm aramid around a 10mm closed-cell foam core.

the panel was 600mm x 300mm and if I balanced it on two soup tins and stood on it, I could bounce my 15st on it without any issues or deflection. It did take another 5 stones before I heard a fibre crack.

So, a 10mm core with 800gsm composed either side of it was incredibly strong in bend.





When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.

www.furyrebuild.co.uk

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