Shilvers
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 05:08 PM |
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Fireblade clutch
Hi folks
Just joined as I've finally got myself a Mac#1 complete with Fireblade engine! :-)
That's where my joy ends for the moment though. On my first ride out, broken clutch cable!  (Was lovin' it until then!)
Now I've searched for an answer a few times but hoping you guys might be able to give me a quick solution since my head is now spinning!
I'm in the process of fitting a new cable. (Doesn't look too difficult) but I'm having a problem where I can put the car in neutral,
start the engine, but as soon as I shift it into gear it stalls the engine even when I have the clutch lever (above the clutch on the engine) held
round to the 11 oclock position. It will then return to a nine o'clock position as it's spring loaded. (Clock position as if you are
looking at the engine from the drivers side, 9 oclock points roughly to the rear of the car)
This as you can imagine has me scratching my head as I've no idea where to go from there.
Unfortunately this is my first bike engine related problem so I've know idea if it's me, the engine/clutch, or the Gods trying to test
me!
Any ideas as to what I'm missing or does it sound like something a bit more complex? I'm really hoping it's not as taking apart
clutches this early into ownership I really did not want to do!!!
Cheers in advance guys, any help appreciated! 
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the_fbi
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 05:19 PM |
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Does it appear to drag (wheels start turning) at all when putting it into gear?
If not, then I'd suggest you've somehow disconnected the sidestand loop to ground.
On the blade, you can't start the engine if its in gear, and you can't select a gear (or at least it'll stall the engine if you try)
unless the sidestand is up. Sounds like you're hitting the latter.
From memory they are green wires with silver bands, for both cluth and sidestand switches.
I'm guessing it won't even try and start if you have it in gear?
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Shilvers
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 05:32 PM |
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It does try and lunge forward a bit when first is selected. I'm pretty sure if it was revved high enough, it would set off. (Not that I'll
be trying that)
You're right, it has to be in neutral to start and wont start if in gear.
As I say, literally just bought the car so if I have disconnected anything by accident I probably haven't noticed. I will have a look though and
make sure everythings still connected, especially the ones you mention.
Very frustrating! 
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the_fbi
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 05:48 PM |
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If it tries to move then its more likely that you've not adjusted the clutch cable so that it disconnects enough.
Stick it in gear, wedge the clutch down and try and push it. If it doens't move then you'll need to adjust some more clutch onto the pedal
so that it disengages fully.
You may find there is a choice of positions on the pedal for the cable, one giving more movement?
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Shilvers
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:00 PM |
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This is what's confusing me.
Without the cable itself being attached to the clutch lever on the engine, and the engine off, is it not possible to dis-engage the clutch by hand by
turning the lever? It's turning to the eleven oclock position and wont budge any further and I dont want to force it, it then returns to 9
oclock via the spring. I haven't connected it to the pedal yet as I just can't see how it's going to pull the clutch lever with the
pedal any differently then I can by hand. Once the cars in gear it will only rock in that gear a bit, but no matter what the position of the clutch
lever, will not dis-engage the clutch so it can then free wheel.
Not knowing bike engines/gearboxes etc I'm not sure if there's a reason for it or it something more major has happened when the cable
snapped.
:perplexed smiley:
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the_fbi
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:32 PM |
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Its possible the cable snapped for a reason then
The clutches are mega stiff, the leverage gained on the pedal clearly helps, that said, its "normally" done by hand on the bike.
I've not had the opportunity/reason to take mine apart, but sounds like something may be jammed on your clutch release.
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Shilvers
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:33 PM |
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Avoneer
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:37 PM |
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The clutch arm will go a lot further - it's just virtually impossible by hand as the blade clutch arm is so short.
This had me worried at 1st and nothing really worked correctly until I had the cable and pedal fully sorted.
Get a new cable from Mac#1 - they do a really good one that's easy to fit and works very smooth and slick.
Where abouts are you?
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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The Great Fandango
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:37 PM |
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I'm not saying this is the safest option but definitely one I'd have a go at if you feel up to it...
You could put the rear of the car on axle stands.
The car should start and the wheels will turn.
I've done this many a time to for calibrating speedos, testing gear changes etc.
As long as the front wheels are sufficiently chocked and you don't floor it then the car's quite safe.
That will allow you to change gear by lever or in the case of my Yamaha just by hand on the engine's gear selector.
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Shilvers
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 06:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
The clutch arm will go a lot further - it's just virtually impossible by hand as the blade clutch arm is so short.
This had me worried at 1st and nothing really worked correctly until I had the cable and pedal fully sorted.
Get a new cable from Mac#1 - they do a really good one that's easy to fit and works very smooth and slick.
Where abouts are you?
Pat...
Halesowen, not far from Birmingham (Junc 3 M5)
After searching the boards I've read that the lever is hard to move by hand but I'm paranoid that after taking up the slack on the spring
from 9oclock and turning to 11 oclock theres more to go? Deffo don't want to force anything. Isn't the clutch starting to dis-enagage when
its at nine o clock and pushing against the spring, then fully dis-engaged at 11 oclock and it will turn no more? Or, it is actually starting to
dis-engage at 11 and I'm too puny to turn it further by hand? I'm fairly sure at 11 oclock there's only about an inch more room
before the sleeve of clutch cable would get in the way.
I bought a universal cable today just to see what's what but I was going to phone Mac1 tomorrow to see if they had any ideas and to get a proper
cable for when I've figured it all out. At the moment I just can't get my head past the fact that I can't dis-engage the clutch by
hand, is there really that much extra force generated via the pedal? Just seems strange but at the moment is all pointing that way.
[Edited on 7/10/07 by Shilvers]
[Edited on 7/10/07 by Shilvers]
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Jubal
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 07:20 PM |
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FWIW I can't move my clutch lever by hand at all since I fitted stiffer springs. I snapped a couple of standard cables and then bought an MNR
one. Super thick. Still going strong.
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Shilvers
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 07:39 PM |
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Can anyone tell me where the lever is while at rest and when fully dis-engaged by the pedal? Photo would be even better. If it's further than I
can move it by hand fair enough, but if it's the same, I think I need to tell Houston there's more of a problem then maybe I first
thought.
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Avoneer
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 08:59 PM |
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As you've said, 9-11 is free play - you take this up by adjusting the cable so that when the pedal is at rest, the clutch arm has no slack and
is at 11.
It doesn't move that far past this point to engage fully (unlike a car) but you won't be able to do it by hand.
Speak to Mac#1 - they know there stuff.
I'll take some pics if you're still struggling tomorrow.
Pat...
No trees were killed in the sending of this message.
However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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chrisf
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| posted on 7/10/07 at 11:53 PM |
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This exact same thing happened to me--down to the broken cable and the clutch arm issue.
I ended up pulling the whole clutch basket and replacing stuff like frictions, etc. What I think happened to me was the judder spring hopped off its
track and got lodged between two frictions.
Andy Bates at ABP offered me tons of advice over the phone that helped me through the process. Ring him. Were I close, I'd have dropped the car
off 
--Chris
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Shilvers
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 07:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
As you've said, 9-11 is free play - you take this up by adjusting the cable so that when the pedal is at rest, the clutch arm has no slack and
is at 11.
It doesn't move that far past this point to engage fully (unlike a car) but you won't be able to do it by hand.
Speak to Mac#1 - they know there stuff.
I'll take some pics if you're still struggling tomorrow.
Pat...
Thanks for that. I'll set the pedal up when I get back from work to start pulling at the 11 oclock position then. I'll give Mac#1 a ring
in the meantime and get me a proper cable on order. Still hoping I don't need to open anything up. Fingers crossed this'll do the trick.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 12:08 PM |
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As Pat says, the first part of movement is 100% certainlty slack / free movement, the only reason there's any resistance to it at all is because
of the return spring fitted underneath the lever arm.
If you want to try without having to set up a new cable, just clamp a pair of molegrips on the lever and gently turn it, it will convince you
there's more movement there if you have sufficient leverage.
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Shilvers
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| posted on 8/10/07 at 02:20 PM |
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Cheers guys. Feeling a bit better about it now. I've ordered the proper cable off Mac#1 which will hopefully be here tomorrow (no thanks to the
Royal Mail! ) so fingers crossed it will all be up and running again very soon. (Hopefully before our next lot of crappy weather!)
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Shilvers
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| posted on 11/10/07 at 07:56 AM |
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Woo hoo!
All done.
The actuator arm is very difficult to move by hand but now it's connected up to the pedal it all works well as suggested.
Thanks for all your help guys, plus a big thanks to the guys at Mac#1. Great service and customer care which goes a long way in this day and age.
Cheers
A happy again Mac#1 owner!
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andrew.carwithen
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| posted on 11/10/07 at 08:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Avoneer
As you've said, 9-11 is free play - you take this up by adjusting the cable so that when the pedal is at rest, the clutch arm has no slack and
is at 11.
It doesn't move that far past this point to engage fully (unlike a car) but you won't be able to do it by hand....
Pat,
I think this may need some clarification.
What blade engine do you have fitted?
On my 893cc engine, the clutch actuating arm is at 9 o'clock with pedal at rest. The arm only moves through to just past 10 o'clock when
pedal fully depressed.Clutch disengages fine with no clutch slip.
If, as you suggest, I try to adjust cable to take up slack past 9 o'clock position, I get clutch slip. I've compared mine to same engine
in its original situ in the bike and the actuating arm is in exactly the same position (9 o'clock) and has the same degree of movement as my
set-up.
Hence, perhaps your suggestion of adjusting clutch cable until actuating arm is at 11 o'clock at rest only applies to 918cc (and later)
engines?
Andy.
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