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Author: Subject: How many kit cars are built a year?
smart51

posted on 8/2/18 at 08:29 AM Reply With Quote
How many kit cars are built a year?

I work for a firm that makes aftermarket car electronics. Another division of the company remanufactures car engines. Vauxhall mostly, for historic reasons. We could easily make a box of electronics that would allow a stock engine managment ECU to work outside the original car without the need for all the other electronics to be fitted. Basically you would have our box, the ecu, a battery and a key and it would all work.

So how many kit cars are sold a year? Sure, we would only sell our box of electronic magic to a fraction of those, but a fraction of what?

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nick205

posted on 8/2/18 at 08:54 AM Reply With Quote
Would the DVLA tell you how many they register per year?

Granted the DVLA aren't always the easiest people to deal with, but that may give you a more accurate figure to work from!

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loggyboy

posted on 8/2/18 at 08:59 AM Reply With Quote
I doubt there is anyway to tell.
Kits dont appear on 'how many left'.
I doubt DVLA would be able identify kits from any other new cars being registered, not without knowing someone in the DVLA who can do some selective searches anyway.
VOSA might be more helpful, but again, I doubt their records will distinguish kit cars vs any other car being IVA'd. Again it would be about 'who you know' not 'what you know'.






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40inches

posted on 8/2/18 at 09:46 AM Reply With Quote
Some of the specialist insurers would know, whether they would be helpful is another question!
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hughpinder

posted on 8/2/18 at 10:12 AM Reply With Quote
try
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/vehicles-statistics#publications-2017

go to whichever quarter you fancy, select the tables bit which downloads a zip file. Pick the biggest .ods file (opens in excel) and start filtering.....

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nick205

posted on 8/2/18 at 12:14 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
I doubt there is anyway to tell.
Kits dont appear on 'how many left'.
I doubt DVLA would be able identify kits from any other new cars being registered, not without knowing someone in the DVLA who can do some selective searches anyway.
VOSA might be more helpful, but again, I doubt their records will distinguish kit cars vs any other car being IVA'd. Again it would be about 'who you know' not 'what you know'.



Good point!

When I SVA'd my Indy a few years back there was a constant stream of imported cars through the test centre. Not sure the DVLA or VOSA would be able to distinguish between kits and imports or indeed how helpful they'd feel like being.

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smart51

posted on 8/2/18 at 12:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
try
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/vehicles-statistics#publications-2017

go to whichever quarter you fancy, select the tables bit which downloads a zip file. Pick the biggest .ods file (opens in excel) and start filtering.....


Interesting stats page. The closest I could get is that there are just short of a million cars registered that are not one of the top 30 makes, or about 3% of the total. Not all that helpful. I might browse the list for personal interest later on though.

[Edited on 8-2-2018 by smart51]

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Mr Whippy

posted on 8/2/18 at 12:45 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I work for a firm that makes aftermarket car electronics. Another division of the company remanufactures car engines. Vauxhall mostly, for historic reasons. We could easily make a box of electronics that would allow a stock engine managment ECU to work outside the original car without the need for all the other electronics to be fitted. Basically you would have our box, the ecu, a battery and a key and it would all work.

So how many kit cars are sold a year? Sure, we would only sell our box of electronic magic to a fraction of those, but a fraction of what?


why do you think only kit car builders do engine swaps? ever heard of the custom car scene??? it's quite big...

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smart51

posted on 8/2/18 at 12:50 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I work for a firm that makes aftermarket car electronics. Another division of the company remanufactures car engines. Vauxhall mostly, for historic reasons. We could easily make a box of electronics that would allow a stock engine managment ECU to work outside the original car without the need for all the other electronics to be fitted. Basically you would have our box, the ecu, a battery and a key and it would all work.

So how many kit cars are sold a year? Sure, we would only sell our box of electronic magic to a fraction of those, but a fraction of what?


why do you think only kit car builders do engine swaps? ever heard of the custom car scene??? it's quite big...


Just a starting point.

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Mr Whippy

posted on 8/2/18 at 12:56 PM Reply With Quote
why not have a look at the number of engine changes done if the DVLA data shows this (I haven't had a look), it must be in the thousands. Loads of people want to put modern engines in older cars but always the complexity of the electronics is a major put off. I've seen vw campers with the donor cars dash dials in the engine bay just cos the immobiliser for the engine ECU needed to have it connected.
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luke2152

posted on 8/2/18 at 03:38 PM Reply With Quote
I would have thought most people who wanted to buy a box to make a stock engine run would rather buy an aftermarket ecu and have all the tuning options open that come with that.

Those happy with the stock ecu would probably be doing so for cost saving reasons so the magic box would need to be priced to suit.

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jossey

posted on 8/2/18 at 04:10 PM Reply With Quote
From speaking with the iva guy when I was getting my car done they iva around 150 kitcars a year in Nottingham alone.

They are the busiest centre they told me this was 3 years back.

I don't think the market is that big.





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David Johnson

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smart51

posted on 8/2/18 at 10:25 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jossey
From speaking with the iva guy when I was getting my car done they iva around 150 kitcars a year in Nottingham alone.

They are the busiest centre they told me this was 3 years back.

I don't think the market is that big.


So maybe 1500 - 2000 a year. Of which many will have a fixed idea of what they want, like a bike engine or a V8.

quote:
Originally posted by luke2152
I would have thought most people who wanted to buy a box to make a stock engine run would rather buy an aftermarket ecu and have all the tuning options open that come with that.

Those happy with the stock ecu would probably be doing so for cost saving reasons so the magic box would need to be priced to suit.


Afermarket engine management ECUs tend to be quite expensive. Our kit would be quite cheap in comparison.

The trouble with the stock ECU on a late model car is that it won't work without half the car's systems attached, or without a box of tricks to replace them. Unless you dismantle a car yourself, the cost of buying from a scrapper the ABS, immobiliser, instrument pack and so on could be more than the emulator box.

If we could offer a box that makes, say, a Focus eco boost engine work with just the engine, ecu and our emulator, it would be a popular choice for kit cars and engine swaps. It seems the numbers might be a bit too low to cover the development costs.

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kingster996

posted on 8/2/18 at 11:54 PM Reply With Quote
One thing that makes an ecoboost install expensive is the ECU needed to run the direct injection malarkey.

I reckon a fair number of people would be interested in an alternative to the expensive options currently available for something that would give you a modern, economical 250bhp out of a standard lump.






I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure

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dinosaurjuice

posted on 9/2/18 at 08:46 AM Reply With Quote
To me this 'box' would be worth ~£300
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Mr Whippy

posted on 9/2/18 at 12:38 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
To me this 'box' would be worth ~£300


doh now you've done it...he was going to sell it for £150....

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dinosaurjuice

posted on 9/2/18 at 01:50 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
To me this 'box' would be worth ~£300


doh now you've done it...he was going to sell it for £150....


Haha, they’ll just do what everyone else does. Spend more time removing functionality, make a ‘light’ model for developing markets which costs more but the margins are so high it’s sill worth selling for half price

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smart51

posted on 9/2/18 at 06:27 PM Reply With Quote
I don't know the detail of the selling price of our stuff. I do the reverse engineering and write the software. I'd guess a CAN box with ignition switch and light switch inputs would probably be more at the lower price than the higher one. The cost is not in the electronics, it's in the time spent working out what to do.

I think you're right about the ecoboost engine. They're good engines as fitted to Fords but with the boost turned up, they're even better.

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jossey

posted on 9/2/18 at 07:21 PM Reply With Quote
The real Issue with the ecoboost engine is the direct injection.

There is an aftermarket ecu for £1400 already and others for a few grand.

The engines are pretty cheap around £1800 for the 1.6 crate

I think the bmw engine would be a better bet as it seems that donors will maybe move in that direction slowly but surely.

The red top. Engine will run out soon and the blacktop focus engines will disappear too leaving less and less options.


David





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David Johnson

Building my tiger avon slowly but surely.

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