ozzy69
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 03:25 PM |
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Megasquirt no spark
Hello i have just had my ms wired up and all setup ready to start but i am not getting spark from leads now i am checking up the list of
possibility's and first is the crank sensor,now when my mate wired it up he was pritty sure that it didn't matter which way the wires
connected to the plug is this true? On a blacktop zetec (two pin plug)
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scutter
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 03:58 PM |
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I'm pretty sure the crank sensor is polarity sensitive.
Check out Here
Regards Dan
[Edited on 29/11/13 by scutter]
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 04:11 PM |
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vr
 
timer socket
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ozzy69
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 05:09 PM |
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Thanks folks,i swaped the wires round and still nothing i also changed coil,checked the coil live thats fine, Is there any getto way to check i am
getting the spark outputs from the ecu without a multimeter as mine has packed up or any other thing to check.?
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 06:07 PM |
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You really can't swap out to a custom ECU without having some working electrical test kit - you'll do more damage than you'd spend
on tools. Do it right, do it once (trust me, I've hours of life gone under a bonnet with a squirt and I HAVE got the right kit!).
Start at the start:
Plug in a laptop, check for (stable) RPM under cranking.
Dont waste time checking outputs and all the rest until you know you have the input working and reading correctly. Needs to be a logical process or
you'll be chasing your tail for days.
Are you sure it's even turning on? Does it know you're cranking? Is it turning on the fuel pump? Are you sure the rest is wired up ok?
[Edited on 29/11/13 by coyoteboy]
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ozzy69
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 07:33 PM |
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Yes everything was wired by a professional more so for the tidyness but i have spent hours upon hours reading and learning all about ms,I had went
over the basic settings over 40 times in the past few weeks reading the manual and double checking my input settings,i have sheets of a4 paper every
ware for things like all the injector info,spark mode,etc,etc ,relays all click when ignition is on and fuel pump primes when turned over but just no
spark,I no i might come across as an idiot asking the questions i am asking on hear but this is all new to me and in a good few months i will look
back and think what was i going on about haha When you say check for (stable) RPM under cranking will this indicate that i am receiving a pulse from
sensor or am i asking a thick question again.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 07:37 PM |
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In tuner studio there is a device called tooth logger. Use that to see if you are getting a stable signal and output from the crank sensor.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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ozzy69
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 07:48 PM |
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Thanks gary i would prob be better getting you to double check everything and see if i have set up the ecu 100%
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dave_424
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 08:45 PM |
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When you are cranking, you want to check your laptop and make sure that there is an RPM, if it is stable then that's good, if it displays 200ish
rpm and then keeps dipping down to 0 every second or so, the crank sensor wiring is the wrong way round.
Are the injectors firing?
While you are cranking, are the two outside LED's flashing on the ECU?
Dave
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ozzy69
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 09:13 PM |
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Just turned her over, rpm is going from 0 to 230 up and down and pulse width 1 and 2 are sitting at 15 ,injection timing is 0,fuel load 90%,ignition
advanced 10, hope this helps.
[Edited on 29/11/13 by ozzy69]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 09:17 PM |
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Sounds like you're getting either noise or sync errors. What sensor is on the crank and how close is the sensor nose to the wheel?
Can you post a datalog of an attempt at starting? I will dig through the log and see what I can see. Also post your MSQ and we can browse that for
potential issues, but the lack of clean input suggests you either haven't sorted the VR conditioner pots right or have noise/polarity issues.
And the age old question applies- where is the ECU grounded and where are all the sensors grounded. And is the crank sensor screened?No daft questions
- it can be a nightmare do debug when you have limited kit (and often when you have enough kit!)
[Edited on 29/11/13 by coyoteboy]
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ozzy69
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 09:34 PM |
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ecu is grounded to the bracket that holds the coil onto the head,ats,cts,tph,all have the same wire (sensor return ) in to pin 7 and cps ground is pin
1,i am using ms-2v3.57 and yes the harness came with the crank sensor cables shelded but i have cut the wires to change them round and they are just
twisted together at the mo also my ms was already build by diy autotune for the zetec. Hope this helps i will try and sort out the rest of your reply
thanks stephen
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dave_424
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 09:34 PM |
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Change the wires going to the crank position sensor around and see if you get a steady cranking RPM, most likely your problem.
Dave
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 09:42 PM |
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He's tried that 
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ozzy69
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 09:42 PM |
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Will try them round the other way again tomorrow and do a test.But i have tried them round both ways.
[Edited on 29/11/13 by ozzy69]
[Edited on 29/11/13 by ozzy69]
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ozzy69
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 09:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ozzy69
ecu is grounded to the bracket that holds the coil onto the head,ats,cts,tph,all have the same wire (sensor return ) in to pin 7 and cps ground is pin
1,i am using ms-2v3.57 and yes the harness came with the crank sensor cables shelded but i have cut the wires to change them round and they are just
twisted together at the mo also my ms was already build by diy autotune for the zetec. Hope this helps i will try and sort out the rest of your reply
thanks stephen
Its the blacktop sensor thats all i no and am not sure how close it is but that was what i was going to be checking next as
the sensor had to be cut to fit and am not sure if the bracket that holds it is original as i never build the engine.The sensor was held in place with
metel weld !!!!!!!!!
[Edited on 29/11/13 by ozzy69]
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 10:08 PM |
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All sensors should be grounded via their own wire back to the ecu, not via one wire, that will introduce issues of offsets to start with but wont
cause sync issues unless it's extreme.
Get a tooth log, msq and log up
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ozzy69
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 10:30 PM |
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This diagram i got from diyautotune http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/grounds.html for my engine .
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 29/11/13 at 11:45 PM |
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Personally I think that's about the worst possible way of grounding sensors. The voltage offsets will be small due to the low currents in each
sensor but it's bad practice at the least.
[Edited on 29/11/13 by coyoteboy]
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atm92484
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| posted on 30/11/13 at 04:28 AM |
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Do you propose each sensor having its own lead to the chassis? I would think that would be worse since the reference could differ significantly from
lead to lead just based on where it is grounded.
OP - have you played with the potentiometers at all? It surprised me how much tweaking it took to get a good, clean signal.
[Edited on 30/11/13 by atm92484]
-Andrew
Build Log
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coyoteboy
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| posted on 30/11/13 at 12:03 PM |
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no, I propose every sensor has a ground back to the ECU ground. That way they all have the same reference point as the ADC doing the measurement and
don't have cumulative voltage drop along the ground line. takes a bit more wire but it is far cleaner and separates signals completely so noise
on one ground line doesn't get referenced by the next sensor in line, also never ground to chassis.
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ozzy69
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| posted on 30/11/13 at 12:23 PM |
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Right today i took out my spark plugs then turned over car and my rpm is sitting at 195 and not going up and down it is sitting still,i have my data
logging but i am still trying to figer out how to put it up on hear or can i send it to you via email?
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 30/11/13 at 01:13 PM |
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You in this afternoon?? Could have a very quick look if you want. Busy but could cast an eye on it and see if its owt obvious.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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ozzy69
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| posted on 30/11/13 at 02:11 PM |
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Need help putting msq and data log onto this forum,ms forum has a upload attachment but what do i do for this forum ?
[Edited on 30/11/13 by ozzy69]
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daxtojeiro
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| posted on 30/11/13 at 04:56 PM |
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Sorry if Im repeating anything thats been posted already, I havent had a good read of the entire thread but:
Check gap between teeth and sensor if its not the OEM setup, it needs to be 0-5 to 0.75mm and the sensor needs to be perfectly square and central to
the teeth!!
Check you have resistive spark plugs and resistive HT leads!
All ground wires (4 minimum) need to be wired directly to the engine block.
Open the lid on the ECU and turn the 2 pots anti-clockwise, just turn them 10 complete turns to ensure they are setup correctly.
You say its a V3.57 board, ensure the link is set to VR OUT - TACH SELECT (Assuming its an MS2) Not INV VR!! If its an MS1 set it to INV VR
If its still the same email me a Composite Data log of it cranking over with the coil packs conencted, without them connected and with the VR wired
the other way around without the coil packs connected. My email is
phil (at) extraefi.co.uk
thanks
Phil
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