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Author: Subject: Help with a low budget duratec installation
jamriggsy

posted on 7/11/15 at 07:35 PM Reply With Quote
Help with a low budget duratec installation

Hi there,
I am a new member to the forum and wondered whether there are any experianced duratec guys here on the forum,

I have recently acquired a van diemen single seater which has the original sierra i4 2.0l engine in which is a cast block so very heavy, not very tuneable and known to be a little unreliable so I am after a small upgrage with a low budget.
I have already sourced a mondeo with a 2.0l duratec with under 100k which was damaged and if my current ebay ads go ok for the unwanted items will have cost me nothing at all for the full working engine complete with any ancillaries I might need. I have read plenty on duratec tuning and there is a great array of options for different budgets but to start with I am after something a little more basic which is where I hope you guys can help. wouldkd like to remove engine andcand fit it directly with no upgrades to intake ect, hence budget. So I am looking utilise the existing ecu in an as is condition, Where I have become stuck is, I believe I will need to keep some of the fuse boxes and insrument cluster with ignition barrel if I am to run the engine as is, Does anyone have experiance of doing such a taskvand would know what I need to keep/ dont need to keep in terms of sensors/ loom etc etc. Cheers
Jamie

[Edited on 7/11/15 by jamriggsy]

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big_wasa

posted on 7/11/15 at 09:30 PM Reply With Quote
I've done this with just about every other <2004 i4 ford engine.

I am a big fan if it's not an out right race car.

Not done the duratec yet so I am not 100% if it's ford or Mazda based. With the ford base you don't need the dash and ecu's with keys sell for bear money on eBay if your patient.

I am über busy with work and a few project cars and half a dozen project engines but I am up for giving you a hand to sort the loom as its one I have not yet done.



[Edited on 7/11/15 by big_wasa]

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big_wasa

posted on 7/11/15 at 09:45 PM Reply With Quote
Zetec SE http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=199233

The Rs turbo is the current project http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=194092

The St170 http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=190440

Silver and Black top zetec e http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=179921

All give you an idea of what is needed



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jamriggsy

posted on 7/11/15 at 09:53 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I've done this with just about every other i4 ford engine.

I am a big fan if it's not an out right race car.

Not done the duratec yet so I am not 100% if it's ford or Mazda based. With the ford base you don't need the dash and ecu's with keys sell for bear money on eBay if your patient.

I am über busy with work and a few project cars and half a dozen project engines but I am up for giving you a hand to sort the loom as its one I have not yet done.



[Edited on 7/11/15 by big_wasa]


Really. That would be great if I could get some help with the loom.
The setup you had there on the st170 looks exactly how I would like to test it.
At the moment I am removing the complete lot from the mondeo in the hope that I can bench run it, barrel, cluster, fuses and all in a similar setup to what you had and then remove what I can in a logical order.
Obviously having no experience in this kind of thing so any help in jumping foward a few steps would be most appreciated.

I'll get some pics up of the project.

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big_wasa

posted on 7/11/15 at 10:02 PM Reply With Quote
It's just a case of letting the ecu see all the sensor info it needs to keep it happy. I am building another at the moment for a turbo charged zetec with focus Rs manegment.
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big_wasa

posted on 7/11/15 at 10:08 PM Reply With Quote
Looking on eBay the mondeo is ford based, the fiesta st150 looks Mazda based for ecu purposes.

It is still fairly advanced compared to say omex/dta ect.


But it is very very cheap

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jamriggsy

posted on 7/11/15 at 10:09 PM Reply With Quote
Yes, definitely in line with my way of thinking.
It's all there. Just working out what's needed and what not and you my friend appear to be many steps ahead of what the general opinion is on using the oem ecu.
I will have to fire up the laptop to start reading through these threads. I can't stand Trying to digest it all via a 5" screen on a mobile

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jamriggsy

posted on 7/11/15 at 10:18 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Looking on eBay the mondeo is ford based, the fiesta st150 looks Mazda based for ecu purposes.

It is still fairly advanced compared to say omex/dta ect.


But it is very very cheap


Promising then based on your earlier comment about not needing clusters and such.

Consider me your new apprentice!!!.

If people are interested I will add all the info and pics and detail etc to a project thread so there's a duratec specific version.

You point. I'll drive. Lol.

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big_wasa

posted on 7/11/15 at 10:22 PM Reply With Quote
I actually bought a low miles cat c duratec mondeo to play with.

For one reason or another it's got pressed into service so I can't play with the engine just yet. Not that I've got the time.

I am a big fan of the oem ecu but I am in a minority. You wouldn't know it but the name of the site is "Locost builders" not cheque book warriors

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ian locostzx9rc2

posted on 7/11/15 at 10:44 PM Reply With Quote
Just a thought how are you going to mount the engine to the gearbox as the bolt pattern is different to the normal run of the mill ford engines?
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monkeyarms

posted on 8/11/15 at 01:30 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I am a big fan of the oem ecu but I am in a minority.


Another OEM ECU fan here. I have installed 2 Zetec SEs

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jeffw

posted on 8/11/15 at 07:12 AM Reply With Quote
And you will likely need a dry sump in a single seater.





was 640 BHP per ton.....now 1127BHP per ton

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jamriggsy

posted on 8/11/15 at 07:45 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ian locostzx9rc2
Just a thought how are you going to mount the engine to the gearbox as the bolt pattern is different to the normal run of the mill ford engines?


A good question.
I am going to use the casing from the mondeo and modify it into an adaptor to fit onto the ld200 box that's in the car.
Fortunately I have experience and access to everything I need in this aspect as I work for a aerospace company with access to lathes/mills ect and have experience in programming them too.

I will need a dry sump though. Might need some pennies spent there but will avoid if I can design/fab something.

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melly-g

posted on 8/11/15 at 08:45 AM Reply With Quote
Where are you based?
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jamriggsy

posted on 8/11/15 at 08:50 AM Reply With Quote
South Devon.
Compete in local hillclimb events.

Here's my usual car which does well


And here's the new project

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snapper

posted on 8/11/15 at 10:45 AM Reply With Quote
Ford badged the later Zetec engine as a Duratec the way to tell is if the inlet is on the left looking at the front of the engine it's a Zetec
On the Right its a Duratec
The Duratec is a Mazda engine so bellhousing bolt pattern is Mazda not Ford
The Duratec may need the dash
There is a comprehensive pin out thread somewhere on this forum
I have a great interest on where this thread goes as I'm currently trying to progress from tuning Pinto's to Duratec
I've just bought an Fiesta ST 150 and it's a jem, just freeing up the inlet with a bigger throttle body and free flowing airbox, using a better exhaust manifold can get 180+ bhp, I've heard that in a kit car getting 200bhp is simple but after this you need rods, Pistons and cams.
Best of luck





SVA passed first time... Trousers in the wash to remove stains

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jamriggsy

posted on 8/11/15 at 10:53 AM Reply With Quote
Yeah the duratec is easily identifiable by
1.inlet at front, exhaust at back
2.timing chain, not belt
3.alloy block, not steel,

From what I have read, 200bhp is easy with stock internals, just bolt on itbs and cams with a remap, none of which is cheap so as mentioned, I am going for a proper cheapskate version to start with, then we'll see how it progresses.

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big_wasa

posted on 8/11/15 at 12:32 PM Reply With Quote
Yep 200bhp could cost you £3k by the time it's mapped less if you make "stuff" but 150bhp is Free with the oem bits you already have.

I will put money on the mondeo ecu not needing the dash.

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jamriggsy

posted on 30/11/15 at 08:30 PM Reply With Quote
Ok so here we go with an update of progress.

Heres what I have done so far with the engine and associated wiring looms

During this process I have removed the engine and most wiring and have learnt that there is essentially 1 wiring loom through the whole car which is separable into 4 main sections. I may need all or none of this but will certainly need key pieces/modules ect to make the engine run in a bench type environment. these four modules from front to back are:-

a, Engine Bay Loom + Fuse box & Battery connections
b, Engine sensor Loom + ECU
c, Dash & column Control Loom
d, Rear loom (fuel pump, elec seats / windows / rear lights ect

Engine
Apart from the O2 sensor / radiator sensors / AC sensors /ABS connector I didn't have any need to remove any sensors from the engine so it is now removed and complete with gearbox and entire engine loom still connected including the ECU which was a pain to remove from the car. The Engine sensor loom can be separated from the fuse box / main relay box as it separates into 2 pieces, one half is engine loom, other have is engine bay loom. Engine out, happy days

Dash
Next thing was to remove the dash to gain access to the rather complex control loom, I wanted to remove this complete aswell as I didn't know how embedded the immobiliser unit is, with the dash removed this was quite easy as is essentially runs the width of the dash and is connected at both ends to fuse / relay boxes. I have left everything connected that I could like control buttons rather than label them, anything not removed with the loom had the plug labelled so I knew what is was wired to.

Engine bay loom
This runs the outside perimeter of the engine bay and at this point was relatively easy to remove it so I did just incase I need any of it, it runs to lights / wipers / water washer bottle etc and includes the other half of the main fuse box which also includes battery connect terminals. Also it runs through the bulkhead and connects to both the dash loom and rear loom.

Rear Loom
I have not removed this as most of the rest of the interior needs removing to access it like carpets and panel trim etc,

Heres a pic of the dash and engine bay loom on the floor, forgot to take one of the engine but will do next time.




Questions

Before I scrap what's left of the car do I need to remove anything else?,

Whats this, do I need it?


From the posts above I think I have removed far in excess of what I need to just to be safe, am I right in thinking that I only actually need the ecu , a key , and the code reader ring thing from the ignition barrel?.

can I throw any of the stuff away that I have removed?.

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snapper

posted on 1/12/15 at 06:04 AM Reply With Quote
The proper Duratec (not a Zetec badged as Duratec) has inlet on the right as you look at the cam chain cover exhaust on the left and runs chain not belt
The Mondeo Duratec should be a Mazda as is the Fiesta ST
Fiesta ST has solid flywheel Mondeo dual mass





SVA passed first time... Trousers in the wash to remove stains

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DW100

posted on 1/12/15 at 01:05 PM Reply With Quote
The item in your last picture is the Airbag module. It shouldn't be needed.
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johnH20

posted on 1/12/15 at 07:58 PM Reply With Quote
Suggest you get yourself a copy of the Ford TIS ( technical information system ). All sorts of copies available, try the Bay. Open the wiring section and find yourself a large flat surface to piece together the individual pages. Its all there , just needs time and some concentration to work it all out. ( I am one of the fans of OEM ECUs, makes life so much easier and cheaper unless you insist on doing some radical tuning ).
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jamriggsy

posted on 3/12/15 at 05:49 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by johnH20
Suggest you get yourself a copy of the Ford TIS ( technical information system ). All sorts of copies available, try the Bay. Open the wiring section and find yourself a large flat surface to piece together the individual pages. Its all there , just needs time and some concentration to work it all out. ( I am one of the fans of OEM ECUs, makes life so much easier and cheaper unless you insist on doing some radical tuning ).


Good shout. Managed to get a copy.
Just got to make sense of it all now. The TIS isn't quite as intuitive as I would of hoped but I have found the all the pictures which break done the PCM (after I wonder why I couldn't find ECU). Will print it all of and start playing with it.

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big_wasa

posted on 5/12/15 at 10:13 AM Reply With Quote
I cant get on with that Ford Tis, maybe mine was a bad copy.
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johnH20

posted on 5/12/15 at 08:26 PM Reply With Quote
I admit it can be quite hard work. Took me some time to figure out the sub-menus and then to piece it altogether. Worth the effort at the end of the day as I suspect there is no other resource that is so detailed. Also you need to pay attention to the time phasing of everything, it is constantly changing. For example I ran into problems with my Racing Puma stuff because it was basically a 99 MY car that appeared in 2000 MY due to the conversion process at Tickford, but there are perhaps other trip wires to look out for. Good Luck to the OP.
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