Printable Version | Subscribe | Add to Favourites
<<  1    2  >>
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: which is faster
madteg

posted on 18/1/07 at 10:46 PM Reply With Quote
which is faster

Bike engined car or 2.0L zetec or are they close
View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
SALAD

posted on 18/1/07 at 10:48 PM Reply With Quote

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
rjs

posted on 18/1/07 at 10:49 PM Reply With Quote
now youve done it , just you wait
zetec of course ,
no it would be bike engined

[Edited on 18/1/07 by rjs]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
smart51

posted on 18/1/07 at 10:52 PM Reply With Quote
0 - 30, the zetec is faster than a carbed R1 in an otherwise identical car, then you have to change gear with the zetec. By the the time you've engaged 2nd, the R1 has matched your speed and by the time you reach 40, they're neck and neck. The r1 is accelerating faster and will reach 60 a second or more before the zetec. As both cars get faster the R1 will leave the zetec behind by an increasing margin as it has more power to overcome drag.

Tune your zetec up by a reasonable ammount and you'll pull a bigger lead in 1st gear. It will take the R1 more time to catch up. You need more power in your zetec than the equivelent bike to match it in acceleration, but then you'll have a slightly higher top speed.

A stock 2.0 Zetec has 135 BHP IIRC. 1.0 Bike engines have 140-150 BHP if they're old or 170-180 if they're new. All will have a few BHP more if fitted with a straight through silencer, foam filter and suitable remap / rejet.

The cost of your zetec + carbs or EFI plus tuning upto enough power to match an R1 would cost quite a bit more than an R1 installation. You then get quieter cruising and a free reverse gear. You pay's you money...

[Edited on 18-1-2007 by smart51]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
BenB

posted on 18/1/07 at 10:53 PM Reply With Quote
Faster how?

Top speed or acceleration?

Or to put it another way- CEC or BEC

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
shortie

posted on 18/1/07 at 10:54 PM Reply With Quote
oh no, cue BEC v CEC fun
View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member This User Has MSN Messenger
SALAD

posted on 18/1/07 at 10:56 PM Reply With Quote

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
PAUL FISHER

posted on 18/1/07 at 10:56 PM Reply With Quote
Here we go again Rescued attachment images.jpg
Rescued attachment images.jpg

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
coozer

posted on 18/1/07 at 10:59 PM Reply With Quote
I don't agree that a zetec installation costs more than an R1.

You can't get an R1 motor for much less than a grand yet you can pick a whole Mondeo up for £50, add on bike carbs and megajolt and your nowhere near 1K





1972 V8 Jago

Midlana when I find the space...

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
jambojeef

posted on 19/1/07 at 12:21 AM Reply With Quote
Interestingly the argument takes on another dimension with current R1 engine prices...

Engines are fetching about £500 at the moment which puts zetec and pinto tuning into perspective.

Puts tuning up old CBR engines into perspective aswell!

Geoff

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
chockymonster

posted on 19/1/07 at 03:37 AM Reply With Quote
It's got to be the BEC
Well, providing that you can a) get the power down and b) get off the line without stalling





PLEASE NOTE - Responses on Forum Threads may contain Sarcasm and may not be suitable for the hard of Thinking.

View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member This User Has MSN Messenger
BusaLoco

posted on 19/1/07 at 03:56 AM Reply With Quote
BEC vs CEC

You can almost put money on, that some of the old guard will be along promptly telling you which is best.......

I may be old but I'm biased too!

0-60 3.48 secs...That would be a "Busa" BEC






View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
Ivan

posted on 19/1/07 at 07:13 AM Reply With Quote
I think if I could get a sequential gearbox affordably for a CEC I would go Nissan or Volvo Turbo.

In South Africa used Busa motors are around 3000 Pounds if you can get them so are not a possibility unless your budget counts for nothing

For that you can get a fully modified (and reasonably reliable - about 20 000K between rebuilds if you don't over rev it) Mazda turbo rotary putting out anything between 350 - 450 hp depending on boost button chosen. Lets see a BEC keep up with that!






View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
nitram38

posted on 19/1/07 at 08:02 AM Reply With Quote
Someone mention carbed R1. What about injection?
I thought 0-60 times on an R1 Bec were around 3.5-4 seconds. Can the Zetec really be faster?
My next project is an R1 injection. I bought a 700 mile engine for £1800.
These £500 engines must be pretty high mileage and possibly need replacing often?

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
smart51

posted on 19/1/07 at 08:07 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
I don't agree that a zetec installation costs more than an R1.

You can't get an R1 motor for much less than a grand yet you can pick a whole Mondeo up for £50, add on bike carbs and megajolt and your nowhere near 1K


I said that a zetec TUNED to match the acceleration of an R1 would cost more. A basic zetec installation would cost less but be slower. My R1 engine, ancillaries, clocks, dynojet kit, the lot cost less than £1k

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
fesycresy

posted on 19/1/07 at 08:26 AM Reply With Quote
Anyone who's thinks of asking the age old question should first get a ride in someones car.

I had a drive in a zetec car first, while good fun, not my cup of after being a biker.

But then came the BEC, although not as fast as my bike, I'd never accellerated in a car that fast. I had to have one. But as Chris says, it's a f*cking nuisance in traffic.





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member   fesycresy 's Aim
NS Dev

posted on 19/1/07 at 08:34 AM Reply With Quote
hmmmm, far too vague a question to answer, which I think is how the answers have gone.

If you are specifically saying zetec, not "car engine" then performance per pound a bike engine is a better bet.

Yes a zetec can be made quicker than most bike engine cars including busas, but you will have to spend more than busa money on it to do it.





Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion retro car restoration and tuning

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member   NS+Dev 's Aim
shortie

posted on 19/1/07 at 08:36 AM Reply With Quote
I don't understand why some people try to imply everything is an argument, this is a light hearted discussion about BEC v CEC, that's it, end of story.

Some prefer BEC and some prefer CEC but nothing wrong with a bit of friendly banter.

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member This User Has MSN Messenger
fesycresy

posted on 19/1/07 at 08:44 AM Reply With Quote
Couldn't agree more, better to discuss the merits of BEC vs CEC's than doing any work this morning





-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member   fesycresy 's Aim
smart51

posted on 19/1/07 at 08:57 AM Reply With Quote
Here is a graph I made a few weeks ago comparing a standard 2.0 zetec against a standard 1998 R1 in otherwise identical cars. It assumes 3.62 diffs, 195/50/15 tyres, the same aerodynamics, the same weight other than engine/gearbox and takes true account of drag, rolling resistance and tranmission losses. Given that, I don't claim 100% accuracy. Rescued attachment acc.GIF
Rescued attachment acc.GIF

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
nitram38

posted on 19/1/07 at 09:10 AM Reply With Quote
You haven't taken into account engine and gearbox weight?
Surely, this will make a big difference?
(I am not calling you Surely ! )
Perhaps 50kg difference?

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
smart51

posted on 19/1/07 at 09:57 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
thats an interesting comparison Smart, from experience though, the r1's i've seen have struggled to get to 100 in 12 seconds as for the zetec iirc they were about 95 in 15 seconds.



My model doesn't take account of wheel spin or clutch slip. It assumes that you have perfect grip and that a slipping clutch transmitts all the torque of the engine, which I know is incorrect. on double checking the figures, I realised that the powertrain losses were a bit too low as well. It affects the zetec more than the R1.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
smart51

posted on 19/1/07 at 10:33 AM Reply With Quote
The zetec is 70kg heavier in my calculations.

Here is a graph of a tuned zetec giving 190 BHP. This was simulated by adding 32% to all the torque calculations. The R1 makes 148 BHP. I've corrected a few things in the calulations like wheel diameter, tyre stickiness and transmission loss in an attempt to improve the accuracy of the model. Rescued attachment acc_3.GIF
Rescued attachment acc_3.GIF

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
smart51

posted on 19/1/07 at 10:48 AM Reply With Quote
Relavant news on totalkitcar.com

http://www.totalkitcar.com/news.php

New 2-litre Focus-spec Zetec Engines from GTS Tuning……..via their Zetecpower website, for just £881.25 inc VAT when bought with one of their range of installation/upgrade kits. Running on carbs these engines produce around 160bhp and on fuel injection around 170bhp, with upgrade kits also available. ...a full engine package for carbs with lowline cast aluminium sump, water rail, inlet manifold, alternator mounts and idler system is just £1995 including the engine
...For new builds the injection package with ECU, throttle bodies and wiring loom in addition to the parts listed above, comes in at £3519 inc VAT

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
zxrlocost

posted on 19/1/07 at 11:12 AM Reply With Quote
in answer to the question an r1 bec would destroy a zetec car even with a few mods..
PLEASE NOTE: This user is a trader who has not signed up for the LocostBuilders registration scheme. If this post is advertising a commercial product or service, please report it by clicking here.

View User's Profile Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
<<  1    2  >>
New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top






Website design and SEO by Studio Montage

All content © 2001-16 LocostBuilders. Reproduction prohibited
Opinions expressed in public posts are those of the author and do not necessarily represent
the views of other users or any member of the LocostBuilders team.
Running XMB 1.8 Partagium [© 2002 XMB Group] on Apache under CentOS Linux
Founded, built and operated by ChrisW.