RazMan
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 10:04 AM |
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Electric flow control?
These past few mornings have been rather nippy to say the least and my engine temps are struggling to reach 75 degrees which can't be good for
the engine. In fact the only time that the engine gets fully warm is when I'm stuck in traffic. As a result my heater also suffers from the cold
so I have difficulty demisting the interior just when I need it most.
In the old days I used to cover half of the radiator of my Mk1 Escort with a bit of cardboard but I was thinking there must be a more elegant solution
to improve this problem and wondered if it was feasable to insert a 32mm flow valve of some sort into the top rad hose to divert water through the
heater matrix until things get warm enough to warrant switching in the radiator - kind of like a thermostat but electrically controlled. In theory I
could back off the valve a little to maintain enough flow as things get warmer.
Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 10:13 AM |
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Is your thermostat working? If so you should'nt have a problem if it's plumb up correctly???
Dan
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RazMan
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 10:29 AM |
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Of course - I'm being daft aren't I 
I don't actually have a thermostat. I have an electric water pump which is supposed to 'pulse' water around the system according to
temperature. This works very well in hot weather and the problem has only surfaced now that the weather has turned cold.
What a muppet I am - an in line thermostat would solve the problem without any electrics needed. This would divert all water through the heater until
normal temps are reached. The only problem I can see is if the thermostat would still work with the heater valve closed - nothing would flow so would
hot water even reach the thermostat to allow it to do its stuff?
I suppose my next question is "where can I find a simple in line thermostat?"
[Edited on 14-12-07 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 10:34 AM |
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Sounds like a fubar thermostat to me too.
All that Rad covering is just so pre-historic!
Just make sure you have a good thermostat (in the right part of your plumbing). This will not only speed up your warm up, it will protect your
engine.
Engines that run too cold tend to run rich, not just costing you fuel but coking the engine and in extreme cases, washing the bores.
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RazMan
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 10:44 AM |
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The only in line thermostat housing I can find is this one from CBS
It is a three way 32mm connection though. My 15mm heater feed comes direct from the engine block - anyone know of a simple 'in / out'
version?
[Edited on 14-12-07 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:03 AM |
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You will have problems finding a simple through thermostat. Most of the manufacturers ones are 3 way.
Because I couldn't get one two way, I had one made for my K-series to put right the stupid position of the original stat. It cost me £100 to get
turned, but it did sort my fluctuating temps.
The k-series has the stat in the return from the rad to the block.
I just removed it and put it in the flow from the head to the rad.
If you look at the top of the stat, you will see a hole I drilled in the outer edge to prevent an airlock while filling and to allow a small amount
of bypass to allow the water to flow past the stat to warm it up.
 
Therm1
 
Description
 
Description
[Edited on 14/12/2007 by nitram38]
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:07 AM |
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inline thermostat housing - could you not use 2 ford crossflow housings back to back? it may need need some modifying - I could have a quick look to
see if it is possible but not until sat.
or else something like this: 
YAMAHA YZF1000 R1 5PW 02 03
current on ebay but a bit too much since it is not known if suitable.
Maybe Malc - yorks engines - would know if there is a bike one that you could use and supply?
something else to consider are inline oil stats but the hoses would be too small.
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:09 AM |
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and this
KAWASAKI ZZR1100 D ZZR1100D THERMOSTAT & HOUSING
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:10 AM |
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my only concern with the above photo's is that the stats are very far away from the engine, could the engine not overheat well before the stat
has seen any heat?
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:16 AM |
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My stat is only about 10" from the head and works perfectly.
Note what I said about the hole drilled in the stat, which helps with flow and warm up.
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:22 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
I have an electric water pump which is supposed to 'pulse' water around the system according to temperature.
So what you want is too fool the controller to think the temperature is less than it is - maybe a resistor in series between controller and
temperature sender, assuming sender has negative coefficient of resistance. (resistance goes down as temp goes up). If it is positive, then one in
parallel but that needss a bit more thought - in each case you need to do some measurements to get right value of resistor.
Do you know if the pump is running - I guess it must be - or is water flow due to siphonic action?
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:28 AM |
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quote:
Note what I said about the hole drilled in the stat, which helps with flow and warm up. quote:
thats a good idea, it might also stop the rad from freezing up during a really cold run.
[Edited on 14/12/07 by Mr Whippy]
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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02GF74
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:31 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Note what I said about the hole drilled in the stat, which helps with flow and warm up. quote:
thats a good idea, never saw that.
you should get out more!!!
the OEM Rover V8 has a small hole with a joggle pin float tjingy, meant to help get rid of air locks.
el cheapo rv8 'stats don't so one commonly drills a 4.365 mm hole; from memory the hole is fitted at 12 o'clock.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:34 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Note what I said about the hole drilled in the stat, which helps with flow and warm up. quote:
thats a good idea, never saw that.
you should get out more!!!
the OEM Rover V8 has a small hole with a joggle pin float tjingy, meant to help get rid of air locks.
el cheapo rv8 'stats don't so one commonly drills a 4.365 mm hole; from memory the hole is fitted at 12 o'clock.
now you mention it I do recall seeing one like that, I think it was my landy
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:42 AM |
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QED do one with a by-pass connection fitted which is essential or the thermostat won't open.
However I would recommend
Rover K series PRT thermostat assembly is what is required
THERMOSTAT PRT inc Housing
X-Part part number: PEM101020
See also
http://web.tiscali.it/elise_s1/
http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/common_problems/HGF_pages/cooling_system_modifications.htm
 
Rescued attachment LRstat.jpg
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britishtrident
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 11:42 AM |
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more
 
Rescued attachment PRT_thermostat_pack.JPG
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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RazMan
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 12:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
The k-series has the stat in the return from the rad to the block.
I just removed it and put it in the flow from the head to the rad.
Very bling indeed - it is even the right colour for me too  But why did you make a new one? Didn't the K series one do the job in the new
position?
Actually, on closer inspection it is a 3 way valve so is capping off one of the outlets an option? Does the direction of flow matter?
[Edited on 14-12-07 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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RazMan
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 01:02 PM |
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I have just edited the QED picture to describe exactly what I want to do.
If I put a reducer on the bypass connection (32mm to 15mm) of the MG thermostat and drill a hole in the thermostat (to allow a small amount of flow
when cold) that should work or have I missed something?
I would love to get the QED jobbie but £150 seems a bit excessive when a £25 one will do the same job.
[Edited on 14-12-07 by RazMan]
 
Rescued attachment Water Pump diagram.JPG
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 01:29 PM |
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No heater on my car so the two way one was better and much neater for my car.
You will find that the rover pvt was developed because of problems when reving the car from cold (plus they old headgasket problems).
The pvt not only opens at temp, but will open if the flow is too high when cold i.e. when you rev it.
I moved my stat because of the stupid position of the original.
I was getting the stat opening for too long so the water would cool too rapidly which can shock the aluminium head.
Putting it in the output means that the engine gets warm and then lets the water round the system.
No more up and down temps, especially on motorways.
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RazMan
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 01:41 PM |
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Ah that explains it. In my case revving doesn't make any difference as I have an electric water pump (might have been a good solution for you
too)
Thats settled then - I will get either the K series plastic one or the alloy CBS one and mod it to suit. Probably the alloy one as I can TIG it to
suit my requirements.
Thanks for all the input guys - it never ceases to amaze me how much knowledge we have in the collective.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 02:22 PM |
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Be careful welding the alloy one. If it gets too hot it will destroy the thermostat!
The bit controlling your temp opening is made of wax !
[Edited on 14/12/2007 by nitram38]
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RazMan
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 02:31 PM |
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Aha! I assumed that it could be dismantled - is the thermostat sealed inside then?
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 02:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
Aha! I assumed that it could be dismantled - is the thermostat sealed inside then?
Yes. They are a throw away item.
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nitram38
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| posted on 14/12/07 at 02:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
inline thermostat housing - could you not use 2 ford crossflow housings back to back? it may need need some modifying - I could have a quick look to
see if it is possible but not until sat.
or else something like this:
YAMAHA YZF1000 R1 5PW 02 03
current on ebay but a bit too much since it is not known if suitable.
Maybe Malc - yorks engines - would know if there is a bike one that you could use and supply?
something else to consider are inline oil stats but the hoses would be too small.
You can't use two housings back to back as one housing has to be deeper as a stat is deeper on one side.
If you look at my pic you will see that both halves are different depths.
Description
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02GF74
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| posted on 18/12/07 at 11:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by nitram38
You can't use two housings back to back as one housing has to be deeper as a stat is deeper on one side.
If you look at my pic you will see that both halves are different depths.
tht is what I thought but didn't think the 'stat was that deep; will take a look tonight.
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