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New Lid
jeffw - 23/1/10 at 11:32 AM

Like a kid with a new toy

My new Arai GP-6S turned up this morning Very, very nice....just got to send it off to Ultimate Airbrush for the paint job. Not very Locost but I only buy a new one every 7-10 years

http://www.whyarai.co.uk/cgi-bin/arai_product.pl?id=GP6S&desc=Arai.GP-6S.Helmets.GP-6S

Steve Hignett - 23/1/10 at 11:38 AM

Nice!

It's dearer than my motorbike helmet though (£530 Shoei) But you've gotta be safe and comfy, so fair play to you!

Steve

jeffw - 23/1/10 at 12:01 PM

Needed a Snell SA2005 helmet this time so I can go Sprinting or do the 6hr GOME event at Mallory. I wonder if trackday organisers will restrict it down to Motorsport helmets now that the MSA have outlawed Bike helmets.

With a spare anti-fog tinted visor it was £650 including the VAT. Unlike Bike lids it has VAT on it.

And if I win the Lotto this weekend I want one of these

http://www.whyarai.co.uk/cgi-bin/arai_product.pl?cat=G04.GP6&desc=GP-6.RC



[Edited on 23/1/10 by jeffw]

daniel mason - 23/1/10 at 12:28 PM

nice! makes my £60 second hand lid look a bit poo.

blakep82 - 23/1/10 at 12:34 PM

whats the paint job going to be?

SPYDER - 23/1/10 at 12:47 PM

Got myself one of these at Autosport last Sunday. Managed to get a good deal including Bell helmet bag and Sparco balaclava from Demon Tweeks of all people!
Geoff.

flibble - 23/1/10 at 01:01 PM

Nice hat!

quote:

I wonder if trackday organisers will restrict it down to Motorsport helmets now that the MSA have outlawed Bike helmets


Sorry if it's a silly question but essentialy what's the difference between a motorsport helmet and a bike one?

jeffw - 23/1/10 at 01:08 PM

This is my Arai RX7 bike helmet




so I was going to get Richard at Ultimate Airbrush to update it a little but use the basic design ideas.

My Arai GP-6S was Demon Tweeks and I got £80 discount over the phone.



[Edited on 23/1/10 by jeffw]

02GF74 - 23/1/10 at 01:58 PM

HOW MUCH!?!?!?!

You need your head examined.

I get by with one of these.
Comse in white and contains paint so you can customise it yourself.

jeffw - 23/1/10 at 02:10 PM

When I started biking at 16 (a very long time ago back in the seventies !) someone told me to always buy the best helmet I could afford.

I have tended to live by that when purchasing. I couldn't afford the GP-6RC at £2500 +VAT but if I could I would buy it. Same with the GP-6S...I can afford it so I have. Just paid Gordo £35K for my part of the banks we all bought which was slightly less than expect so...new lid

RK - 23/1/10 at 02:41 PM

Remember kids-with-too-much-money, it has to FIT for it to actually work. Also, they don`t last forever so need replacing every few years.

blakep82 - 23/1/10 at 03:11 PM

oooh i like that design
one day i might get a helmet painted to match my car. need to paint my car first though...

jeffw - 23/1/10 at 03:29 PM

quote:
Remember kids-with-too-much-money, it has to FIT for it to actually work. Also, they don`t last forever so need replacing every few years.


That is pretty condescending. I'm fully aware of the need for a helmet to fit, as I was 1977 when I bought my first one. As for the" kids with too much money" dig....that is beneath you.

The GP-6S is the replacement for the Arai GP-5K and is a popular choice in Sprinting or club racing and would not be considered extravagant in those circles.

SPYDER - 23/1/10 at 04:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RK
Remember kids-with-too-much-money........


So assuming that you personally aren't a "kid-with-too-much-money" pray tell us what you have spent your money on.
Looking through the pics in your archive it wasn't welding lessons.
So. remember "kids-who-seemingly-can't-weld-properly" it has to be done by someone who can do it properly otherwise it might be as dangerous as an ill-fitting helmet!
Sorry if that sounds condescending but hey, this is the internet!
My new lid, pictured above, only cost £310 and, as you rightly point out, will last for years. Cheap really, isn't it.
If you weren't a million miles away I could arrange for some welding lessons from Eldon, my co-builder.
The humility lessons you can sort out for yourself.
And please post a pic of your lid.
Geoff.

Nash - 23/1/10 at 04:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RK
Remember kids-with-too-much-money, it has to FIT for it to actually work. Also, they don`t last forever so need replacing every few years.


So what value do you put on your head?

Statements like yours shock me and believe me when I say very little shocks me.

I bet you wouldn't think about buying flame proof safety gear either!!!??

Not expensive when you consider what it does for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAyPQPvav6M&feature=related

May have been a throw away remark but confusius say "when foot in mouth, stop talking"

Have a safe day.

...Neil

jeffw - 23/1/10 at 04:41 PM

quote:

Sorry if it's a silly question but essentialy what's the difference between a motorsport helmet and a bike one?


The major differences are the Motorsport ones have a Nomex (or similar) interior which is fireproof/resistance and have a considerably smaller visor aperture which a thicker visor.

On a Bike you can sit with your head at a lot of different angles (crouched down racer style or laid back on a cruiser) and therefore the aperture needs to be large to accommodate this. There is also an expectation that you'll not be on or near the bike if it bursts into flames ( or not for long anyway).

In a car you tend to sit in much the same position regardless of which type of car you are in. So the aperture is reduced to minimise the area of the visor. They are fireproof/resistant to allow you to have an accident in a car on fire and then get out without having a helmet melting or burning to you. Even the strap is fireproof on Motorsport helmets.

The MSA have stopped the use of bike helmets in none race or club race events so everyone who competes in a MSA event will now need a SA2005 or equivalent lid. BS6658 Type A isn't allowed all though BS6658 Type A/FR as is SA2000 & SA2005.

jeffw - 23/1/10 at 04:51 PM

I remember being at the Ring 2 years ago when I met a father and son in a Caterham. Very nice car, 1.8 K Series on fuel injection. Had a long chat about the car and the Ring etc etc.

The following day I saw them again....The father had bandages on his hands up to his elbows and had lost all of the front of his hair, eyebrows etc and had pretty bad looking burns on his face and also had bandages on his chest.. The son had very minor burn on his chin. Apparently the fuel lines had split on a flat out section of the track and had soaked the two guys in fuel...which then ignited. The son was in a fire proof helmet, suit, boots and gloves but the father was in a bike helmet and normal leather gloves. Certainly made me think....

[Edited on 23/1/10 by jeffw]

rickys2000 - 23/1/10 at 07:36 PM

I just dont get the personal or condescending comments approach.
The guy has got a new lid and is proud of it. If we could all get the best quality we could afford wouldn't we do that to give ourselves the maximum protection in an accident. Unfortunately quality comes with a price.....

beaver34 - 23/1/10 at 07:52 PM

looks nice, im getting one of these when ive finished rebuilding the car

http://www.v2sport.com/v2pro.html

flibble - 23/1/10 at 08:00 PM

quote:

looks nice, im getting one of these when ive finished rebuilding the car
http://www.v2sport.com/v2pro.html


Ahh, nice one, that's more my price range and having not considered anything other than my bike helmets until I read this thread I may well go for it

Edit: Nice, it generates downforce, I'll get stick one on the boot lid too


[Edited on 23-1-10 by flibble]

beaver34 - 23/1/10 at 08:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by flibble
quote:

looks nice, im getting one of these when ive finished rebuilding the car
http://www.v2sport.com/v2pro.html


Ahh, nice one, that's more my price range and having not considered anything other than my bike helmets until I read this thread I may well go for it

Edit: Nice, it generates downforce, I'll get stick one on the boot lid too


[Edited on 23-1-10 by flibble]


yeah they seem good, nice guys to deal with way going to get one last year but they were out of stock in my size, seem fantastic for the price, and they might not try and lift like the bike helemts i use at the moment,

jeffw - 23/1/10 at 11:20 PM

Certainly nothing wrong with the V2 pro....it has the same safety cert as the Arai

beaver34 - 23/1/10 at 11:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Certainly nothing wrong with the V2 pro....it has the same safety cert as the Arai


so why pay more for a lid then? not being funny what is better?

jeffw - 5/3/10 at 10:11 PM

For me personally it is fit & finish as well as trusting the Arai brand to do as much as possible to save my head. Having had 5 or 6 Arai helmets and crashed bikes in 2 of them without serious damage I decided to stick with them. Simple as that really.

Anyway helmet is back from Ultimate Airbrush and looks awesome.

Badger_McLetcher - 6/3/10 at 02:19 AM

This is the last new lid I got.
Sorry for the blood btw!


Argh trying to figure out how to resize this
Would you believe this is actually the best pic I have of that helmet lol.
[Edited on 6/3/10 by Badger_McLetcher]

[Edited on 6/3/10 by Badger_McLetcher]

jeffw - 6/3/10 at 06:58 AM

Agincourt re-enactment gone too far ?

eddie99 - 6/3/10 at 10:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
For me personally it is fit & finish as well as trusting the Arai brand to do as much as possible to save my head. Having had 5 or 6 Arai helmets and crashed bikes in 2 of them without serious damage I decided to stick with them. Simple as that really.

Anyway helmet is back from Ultimate Airbrush and looks awesome.


Need Pictures im afraid!!!!

jeffw - 6/3/10 at 10:39 AM







Hoping someone would ask

[Edited on 6/3/10 by jeffw]

eddie99 - 6/3/10 at 10:49 AM

Very Nice, mind if i ask how much the paint job was?

Badger_McLetcher - 6/3/10 at 10:49 AM

Glad I've read this topic tbh as am hopefully gonna get me bike license soon, was going to use the same helmet for both! Not gonna do that now...
If I've learnt anything from reenactment it's that you need to protect your noggin. Of course this doesn't necessarilly mean paying through your nose, but it's one thing you shouldn't skimp on.

jeffw - 6/3/10 at 11:22 AM

Not sure telling the price is appropriate on Locostbuilders but it was £380 +delivery. Would have been £325 without the cartoon. Obviously the more complex the design the more it costs.

02GF74 - 6/3/10 at 04:57 PM

nice .... but what is that on the back?

looks like a blue roller skate.

jeffw - 6/3/10 at 05:25 PM

Lol

It is meant to be a racing computer mouse (the bike lid had a Kart version this one is meant to be a car version of the same cartoon).

02GF74 - 7/3/10 at 12:59 AM

ahhhh i thought it looked familar , explains the "half front bumper" which is the mouse lead then.

RK - 7/3/10 at 04:48 AM

And they paid you over 300 pounds just to wear it! Where do I sign?

jeffw - 7/3/10 at 07:16 AM

Sigh, not you again....naff off if you haven't anything constructive to say.

smart51 - 7/3/10 at 07:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Just paid Gordo £35K for my part of the banks we all bought which was slightly less than expect so...new lid


Really? I'd heard he'd borrowed it and we'd have to pay it back. I didn't realise that he'd borrowed some from you.

BTW. How much better is a £2500 helmet than, say, a £250 helmet. Given that cheap ones are around £50, the £250 job must ba fairly decent. Its only got to be a couple of percent surely?

jeffw - 7/3/10 at 07:51 AM

While I appreciate the costs involved in this helmet are not to everyones taste (or budget) and the paintwork will not met many peoples approval, I am, however, taken aback by the level of sniping and snide comments given that I have always found Locustbuilders a pretty friendly place.

I will get the Admins to remove this thread.

smart51 - 7/3/10 at 08:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
taken aback by the level of sniping


I hope this was not aimed at me. I am genuinely interested in what people who buy expensive helmets think the benefits are.

smart51 - 7/3/10 at 08:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
I will get the Admins to remove this thread.


No need, you can do it yourself. Just edit your original post and tick the delete this thread tick box. easy.

jeffw - 7/3/10 at 09:13 AM

quote:
I hope this was not aimed at me. I am genuinely interested in what people who buy expensive helmets think the benefits are.


Since you asked. Motorsport helmets must comply with much higher standards than BS 6658 Type B & Type A standards for the roads. There is a newer EC standard for bike helmets which I know little about.
The £2500 Arai (and other manufactures) helmet complies with a new FIA standard which requires the use of complex carbon fibre & kevlar composite materials. This exceeds the standards that my Arai GP-6S has to pass although they are essentially the same shell made from different materials. The Arai helmet GP-6RC is in very short supply and only International race licenses holders are allowed to buy it. The new FIA standard (FIA 8860/2004) is compulsory for F1 and similar formulas.

In the event of needing the helmet to save my life I do not want to regret not spending the extra £XXX and if I could afford (or qualify for) a GP-6RC then I would have one. There are very few helmets that meet the standard (SA2005) for under £250 and most are around the same cost level as the Arai.

You appear to be of the opinion that helmets are all the same and therefore extra money spend on them is a waste. Having fallen off several Motorcycles at high speed over the years I buy the best safety equipment I can afford. For the vast majority of the time it will be money wasted...but for the split second you need it the cost of safety equipment is worth every penny.

If you look at helmets as something you are required to have for track days or what ever event you are taking part in as an expense then they are a waste of money. If you view them as something that will save your life then cost is irrelevant.

quote:
No need, you can do it yourself. Just edit your original post and tick the delete this thread tick box. easy.

There are now edit boxes on the orginal post as I think it is too old.

[Edited on 7/3/10 by jeffw]

smart51 - 7/3/10 at 09:24 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
quote:

You appear to be of the opinion that helmets are all the same and therefore extra money spend on them is a waste.


Not at all, but I have observed that in most things, the cheapest is a lot worse than something only a little more expensive. In the mid range, you get what you pay for whereas the most expensive things are only a little better for a lot more money - the law of diminishing returns.

jeffw - 7/3/10 at 09:32 AM

Well, in Arai motorsport helmet terms, I have bought the low-end model. There is the GP-6 at £1000 and the GP-6RC at £2500.

eddie99 - 7/3/10 at 10:22 AM

Sorry for asking how much it costs, i think its worth it!!! Didnt realise the snipes would happen.

02GF74 - 7/3/10 at 10:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
While I appreciate the costs involved in this helmet are not to everyones taste (or budget) and the paintwork will not met many peoples approval, I am, however, taken aback by the level of sniping and snide comments given that I have always found Locustbuilders a pretty friendly place.



the sniping as you put it is I reckon is due to partial ignorance.

I would include myself but I was not aware of your helmet being for car motor sport and having to comply to different regs. than motorcycel helmet so learnt something there.

nevertheless, I suspect the puzzlement still exists as to why it is worth paying £ 800 for a helmet instead of £ 400 or £ 200 or £ 50.

you may have crashed several times but unless you had the exact same crash in lesser and more expensive helmes, I do not see how you can say that a £ 400 did a better job than a £ 100, unless you have analsyed a whole bunch of these helmets from crashes.

I profess myt ingnorance in the standards and aren't that interested in the details but would like to know in layman terms how the helmets become better with more money.

for example, it take a x KN forcre to crack an average skull but Y KN if wearing helmet Z or W kN if wearing helmet costing 2x helemt Z.

My only understanding is that the helmets pass the smae standard but as the price goes up, they become lighter do to more elaborate material and constructions.

..... anywways, nice helmet, it's yours, your money, your head, in the gander scheme of things, what does it matter what anyoine else thinks?

jeffw - 7/3/10 at 11:12 AM

There are many different standards for helmets (Bike and Motorsport ones) and they require different things. Bike helmets are not required to be fire resistant simply because you are not expecting to be near a source of flames for very long on a bike.

Motorsport helmets are designed in a different way. They must protect against impact, sharp object intrusion (think Massa last year) and attempt to keep the driver alive while sitting in a car on fire. Because the driver is restrained with harnesses & (possible) HANS devices it is not the same requirements as a bike helmet.

The Arai GP-6S is the entry level Arai helmet which uses the same shell shape as the more expensive helmets but is made of different materials. It still has a fireproof interior, Kevlar strap (don’t want your helmet strap to burn through while in the middle of an accident), fireproof visor and aluminium visor screws. It also has HANS posts to enable the use of a HANS device. The primary difference between the GP-6S (£561) & GP-6 (£980) is the weight, level of object intrusion protection, aperture size and it passes a higher FIA safety standard. As someone who wears glasses I cannot use a GP-6 as I can’t get the glasses on. The GP-6RC (£2500) passes the highest FIA standard and is at the level which is required for F1 this year. Weight is an important consideration as the helmet adds to the weight of your head which you have to keep upright in 3-4g corners or a 100g accident so every gram will make a difference (an extra 150grams would be the equivalent of ½ Kg hanging off your neck during a high speed corner or 15Kg in a 100g accident).

Shell size is important as well, a lot of helmet makers in the lower price ranges use one shell with different padding for each size. So a XL helmet will be a lot lighter than a XS helmet. In karting now you will need a specific kart helmet or a motorsport helmet to compete but if you are under 14 you must use a specially designed childs karting helmet not an adult which you have been allowed to do up to now.

Also remember that all motorsport helmets are +VAT whereas Bike helmets are VAT free.