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Jag V6 dyno results (at last)
40inches - 27/2/19 at 02:57 PM

Well 2.5 years after finishing the AJ30 install I have got round to getting it on a rolling road.
Two things that amaze me are:
How good this engine is and how close VEAL got the tune.

A power pull before adjustment saw 239bhp tuned solely with VEAL, however there is no substitute
for a rolling road tune, because you can't hit all the cells, and the ignition timing is not touched.
Before tuning on the RR the car was very good, but after the RR season it is superb
The BHP and Torque traces where a bit wiggly, to say the least, after RR tuning a complete contrast.
The Torque came in around 190/195ftlb from around 1500rpm up to 4000rpm, then climbed up
to 215lbft at 5600rpm before decaying.
The power peak was around 242bhp, flat between 6000rpm and 7200rpm and was still going
It will pull away from standstill in 5th with 2 up
If you are building an AJ30 install, you will not be disappointed, it was well worth the effort


flak monkey - 27/2/19 at 03:42 PM

Nice result


wylliezx9r - 27/2/19 at 05:31 PM

Nice. The car must go like stink. Do you know what the car weighs by any chance ?


Badger_McLetcher - 27/2/19 at 05:51 PM

Awesome! I can't wait to finish mine


big_wasa - 27/2/19 at 05:55 PM

That must be a great sound track.

I sort of wish I had gone with it instead of the turbo Zetec, maybe next time. I still look at and think thatís a lot of engine for a Locost


40inches - 27/2/19 at 09:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wylliezx9r
Nice. The car must go like stink. Do you know what the car weighs by any chance ?


640kg without driver, but with 4 gallons of fuel. About 120kg up on the ZX9R


40inches - 27/2/19 at 09:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
That must be a great sound track.



I used Kits and Classics in Chesterfield for the Dyno session, Jools the owner said he preferred the soundtrack of the V6 to a V8
He is a TVR specialist, so I was pleased with that comment


perksy - 27/2/19 at 10:05 PM

Thats a really good result

Peak Torque and BHP within 1500 rpm of each other, There ain't much wrong with that engine

Heard good things about Jools and his mapping


CosKev3 - 28/2/19 at 09:08 AM

Oh this is great to hear

Especially using the ST200 Inlet which looks more restrictive than the standard AJ30 one


CosKev3 - 28/2/19 at 09:10 AM

Did you experiment with the VVT?

Did the mapper say it's worth while/noticeable when the VVT is used?

[Edited on 28/2/19 by CosKev3]


40inches - 28/2/19 at 11:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Did you experiment with the VVT?

Did the mapper say it's worth while/noticeable when the VVT is used?

[Edited on 28/2/19 by CosKev3]


The VVT was set to cut in at 5200rpm as on the S-Type, and yes you can see the blip on the graph, worth about
15bhp and 10 torques
I am going back, in about an hour, to have a play with the VVT. A power run with and without it fully activated, the logic being that there should be a cross over point that will become the switch point
The ST200 plenum and ST220 throttle body work well, still accelerating past the 7200RPM red line.
If you are running MS2 Extra I can email you the Msq file, when it is finalised?


CosKev3 - 28/2/19 at 12:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Did you experiment with the VVT?

Did the mapper say it's worth while/noticeable when the VVT is used?

[Edited on 28/2/19 by CosKev3]


The VVT was set to cut in at 5200rpm as on the S-Type, and yes you can see the blip on the graph, worth about
15bhp and 10 torques
I am going back, in about an hour, to have a play with the VVT. A power run with and without it fully activated, the logic being that there should be a cross over point that will become the switch point
The ST200 plenum and ST220 throttle body work well, still accelerating past the 7200RPM red line.
If you are running MS2 Extra I can email you the Msq file, when it is finalised?


Thats good to hear about the VVT

And yes please I would love a map that I know will allow me to fire up the engine thanks

Are you considering raising the rev limit as it's still pulling?


40inches - 28/2/19 at 04:31 PM

Well after an afternoon on the RR, it's all good news.
By moving switching points up and down the rev range Jools managed to get a conservative increase of
around 20bhp all the way from 2000rpm to 6200rpm with around 10bhp at the rev limit
Unfortunately the whole map was weak, so it will have to go back on the rollers for a remap.
So the gains with a remap should exceed 20bhp. That will be done in a few weeks time
I woder what the safe rev limit is? It sounds mega at 7000rpm as it is


CosKev3 - 28/2/19 at 05:30 PM

Nice one

So what revs was the best point for VVT?

I've read on line they can do 8000rpm happily due to the solid lifters.

How are you running the injection, batch fire or semi sequential?


40inches - 1/3/19 at 09:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Nice one

So what revs was the best point for VVT?

I've read on line they can do 8000rpm happily due to the solid lifters.

How are you running the injection, batch fire or semi sequential?


The VVT was a bit of a head scratcher, and reverse intuative.
With no VVT the lower (2000rpm to 6000rpm) was the same, but the graph kept climbing up to the redline for
over 250bhp
With the VVT activated the lower showed a 10% (20-25)increase of torque and power but fell off at 6000rpm to 240bhp
but wouldn't idle
We figured out that the VVT was 2 stage and to combine the two graphs would need 2 programmable outputs from
the MS, and an extra relay i:e The VVT is off until 2000rpm, On until 6000rpm then back off!
So I am adding an extra relay to the VVT "control" box and then another full mapping season.
The injection is Semi sequential and ,surprisingly, Alpha N gave the best results..

[Edited on 1-3-19 by 40inches]


r1_pete - 1/3/19 at 03:43 PM

Great result Dave, feels like a different car afterwards doesnít it....


40inches - 1/3/19 at 04:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by r1_pete
Great result Dave, feels like a different car afterwards doesnít it....

Yea! From good to great


Ugg10 - 1/3/19 at 05:41 PM

The vct sound like it is similar to the Puma 1.7. Have search for Jenko on here. He found that it was best off up to about 2k then on until 6k and then off again above that. Without turning it off again he was loosing top end power. He also turn his off below about 30% load iirc. He used an onex600 ecu. The latest emerald k6 and me221 can do a fully mapped vct I think.

[Edited on 1/3/19 by Ugg10]

[Edited on 1/3/19 by Ugg10]


CosKev3 - 2/3/19 at 09:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Nice one

So what revs was the best point for VVT?

I've read on line they can do 8000rpm happily due to the solid lifters.

How are you running the injection, batch fire or semi sequential?


The VVT was a bit of a head scratcher, and reverse intuative.
With no VVT the lower (2000rpm to 6000rpm) was the same, but the graph kept climbing up to the redline for
over 250bhp
With the VVT activated the lower showed a 10% (20-25)increase of torque and power but fell off at 6000rpm to 240bhp
but wouldn't idle
We figured out that the VVT was 2 stage and to combine the two graphs would need 2 programmable outputs from
the MS, and an extra relay i:e The VVT is off until 2000rpm, On until 6000rpm then back off!
So I am adding an extra relay to the VVT "control" box and then another full mapping season.
The injection is Semi sequential and ,surprisingly, Alpha N gave the best results..

[Edited on 1-3-19 by 40inches]


Ah right thanks

I've been recommended to wire the VVT solenoids in like injectors,so ignition live,then use a output channel on the MS to switch the earth to it?


40inches - 2/3/19 at 10:39 AM

That's right, I used the Fidle output, and now another spare output for the extra switch over.
Without activating the VVT the engine will still put out a lot of power low down, and will probably have an extra 15-20bhp
above 6000rpm (255-260) but, by activating it at 2000rpm and deactivating at 6000rpm that 15-20 bhp/torque will be
all the way from 2000rpm up to 7200rpm It's a no brainer.
We saw 254bhp, but with a weak mixture Once it's remapped?????????
I'll see if I can put up the initial graph.


40inches - 2/3/19 at 02:48 PM

This is the initial graph, you can see the bumps in the graphs when the VVT switches.
This is a very Torquey motor.

This is the graph with the power trace manually overlaid with 'OFF' VVT ,Red trace and
'ON' VVT Green trace. Just have to combine the two.


CosKev3 - 2/3/19 at 03:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
That's right, I used the Fidle output, and now another spare output for the extra switch over.
Without activating the VVT the engine will still put out a lot of power low down, and will probably have an extra 15-20bhp
above 6000rpm (255-260) but, by activating it at 2000rpm and deactivating at 6000rpm that 15-20 bhp/torque will be
all the way from 2000rpm up to 7200rpm It's a no brainer.
We saw 254bhp, but with a weak mixture Once it's remapped?????????
I'll see if I can put up the initial graph.


Ah right cheers

I'm struggling to understand the need for two outputs to control it though,surely one output can switch it on at 2000rpm then switch it off at 6000rpm?

Graph looks great


40inches - 3/3/19 at 05:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
I'm struggling to understand the need for two outputs to control it though,surely one output can switch it on at 2000rpm then switch it off at 6000rpm?
Graph looks great


The programmable outputs on Megasquirt are only single action, If it is programmed to switch on, at say 6000rpm, that's it, until the revs drop bellow 6000rpm again. It isn't a deal breaker, I always use relays for the programmable outputs anyway, so it
is a simple job to put another relay alongside the original and cut into the VVT feed wire with the other relay.
I did that this afternoon
If you have yet to order your MS, get Phil to activate all the outputs ( costs £5 each) you can have dual maps for a fiver also


CosKev3 - 3/3/19 at 07:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
I'm struggling to understand the need for two outputs to control it though,surely one output can switch it on at 2000rpm then switch it off at 6000rpm?
Graph looks great


The programmable outputs on Megasquirt are only single action, If it is programmed to switch on, at say 6000rpm, that's it, until the revs drop bellow 6000rpm again. It isn't a deal breaker, I always use relays for the programmable outputs anyway, so it
is a simple job to put another relay alongside the original and cut into the VVT feed wire with the other relay.
I did that this afternoon
If you have yet to order your MS, get Phil to activate all the outputs ( costs £5 each) you can have dual maps for a fiver also


Mmm I'll have to ask Dale,as the output he suggested using was the one that controlled the boost solenoid when I had the turbo on the R1.
Pretty sure he said he could activate/deactivate that as he needed to to control the boost.

I've been running my MS since I charged the R1,just need to get Dale to add another driver for the extra two cylinders to run the AJ30.
He's recommended staying with batch fire injection too


theduck - 3/3/19 at 09:12 PM

Boost control is a pwm output and different to the ďprogrammableĒ outputs.


CosKev3 - 3/3/19 at 09:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by theduck
Boost control is a pwm output and different to the ďprogrammableĒ outputs.


Ah right,thanks


40inches - 24/3/19 at 01:43 PM

Just got back from having the VVT set up.
272bhp after 2 hours on the dyno.
The photo upload has stopped working again So will post the Dyno graphs when I find
a suitable hosting site.


pigeondave - 24/3/19 at 01:50 PM

shiver me timbers
you must be happy with that.

How many torques.


40inches - 24/3/19 at 02:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pigeondave
shiver me timbers
you must be happy with that.

How many torques.

Around 250 starting at over 200 at 2000rpm.
With the VVT set up as Jaguar from the factory, we got the rated 240bhp, it looks like
Jaguar neutered the engine, possibly for emissions????


pigeondave - 24/3/19 at 02:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches

With the VVT set up as Jaguar from the factory, we got the rated 240bhp, it looks like
Jaguar neutered the engine, possibly for emissions????


And I trust you'l bee winding it back a little for the same reasons

Out of interest what box and diff are you using?


CosKev3 - 24/3/19 at 03:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Just got back from having the VVT set up.
272bhp after 2 hours on the dyno.
The photo upload has stopped working again So will post the Dyno graphs when I find
a suitable hosting site.


Wow

So what was your setting on the VVT to get that power?


40inches - 24/3/19 at 04:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pigeondave
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches

With the VVT set up as Jaguar from the factory, we got the rated 240bhp, it looks like
Jaguar neutered the engine, possibly for emissions????


And I trust you'l bee winding it back a little for the same reasons

Out of interest what box and diff are you using?


The standard Getrag S-Type box with Sierra 3.38 diff.
Photos in my archive https://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/photos.php?action=gal&user=40inches&folder=AJ30


40inches - 24/3/19 at 04:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Just got back from having the VVT set up.
272bhp after 2 hours on the dyno.
The photo upload has stopped working again So will post the Dyno graphs when I find
a suitable hosting site.


Wow

So what was your setting on the VVT to get that power?


I think on at 1800rpm with 60% TPS and off at 5800RPM.
Strangely the Jag setting is on at 5200rpm, according to one of the Jag manuals, and that
gives 240bhp as per the specs.
The engine had been mapped at the standard settings, but needed a lot more fuel added at the optimum settings.


CosKev3 - 24/3/19 at 06:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Just got back from having the VVT set up.
272bhp after 2 hours on the dyno.
The photo upload has stopped working again So will post the Dyno graphs when I find
a suitable hosting site.


Wow

So what was your setting on the VVT to get that power?


I think on at 1800rpm with 60% TPS and off at 5800RPM.
Strangely the Jag setting is on at 5200rpm, according to one of the Jag manuals, and that
gives 240bhp as per the specs.
The engine had been mapped at the standard settings, but needed a lot more fuel added at the optimum settings.


Really good to know that the ST200 inlet hasn't restricted the engine!

How much more fuel could the standard injectors put in?

I've bought a set of 6 hole mustang injectors for mine,picked them up for what it would cost to get the originals refurbed so thought give them a go.


40inches - 24/3/19 at 06:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Just got back from having the VVT set up.
272bhp after 2 hours on the dyno.
The photo upload has stopped working again So will post the Dyno graphs when I find
a suitable hosting site.


Wow

So what was your setting on the VVT to get that power?


I think on at 1800rpm with 60% TPS and off at 5800RPM.
Strangely the Jag setting is on at 5200rpm, according to one of the Jag manuals, and that
gives 240bhp as per the specs.
The engine had been mapped at the standard settings, but needed a lot more fuel added at the optimum settings.


Really good to know that the ST200 inlet hasn't restricted the engine!

How much more fuel could the standard injectors put in?

I've bought a set of 6 hole mustang injectors for mine,picked them up for what it would cost to get the originals refurbed so thought give them a go.


Not sure, will have a look at the settings, I think they are on about 85% duty cycle. They are around 240cc/min


BaileyPerformance - 25/3/19 at 04:36 PM

What did your car make at the wheels?


r1_pete - 26/3/19 at 12:37 PM

Looks like a great result Dave, its really tempting to go for a similar setup in my Scimitar....


big_wasa - 26/3/19 at 04:53 PM

If your not in a rush Pete I may be selling mine in a few weeks. I just want to make some brum brum noises first.


r1_pete - 26/3/19 at 07:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
If your not in a rush Pete I may be selling mine in a few weeks. I just want to make some brum brum noises first.


No Rush Warren, itíll be a long parts gather, hiding the total cost from swmbo

[Edited on 26/3/19 by r1_pete]


big_wasa - 26/3/19 at 08:47 PM

Yeh just the silicone hoses are making me wince this month.


40inches - 16/4/19 at 07:58 AM

Trying to find a photo hosting site that will embed the photo in a post.
This is the best I can do at the moment https://btcloud.bt.com/web/app/share/invite/uanmtLGpRY


Partofthechaos - 16/4/19 at 04:37 PM

That is seriously impressive output for an off the shelf engine, especially one normally used to lug an executive car up and down motorways. 90bhp/L without anything more than an engine map!

The problem is this is making me excited to get mine built, but I'm doing the kit car thing in reverse. Currently dismantling my second donor, so starting off with a car and ending up with a kit.


big_wasa - 17/4/19 at 11:52 AM

I keep looking at it and think how the hel does it fit in the hole


40inches - 17/4/19 at 12:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I keep looking at it and think how the hel does it fit in the hole


Only just, I had to fit a SAAB idler pulley to clear the chassis. There is 20mm clearance at the cam covers.
Doing it again I would fit an electric water pump, so no need for idler pulleys.


CosKev3 - 17/4/19 at 05:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I keep looking at it and think how the hel does it fit in the hole


Once the engine is stripped of unwanted parts it's pretty small tbh,I can drag mine around the garage with ease


CosKev3 - 17/4/19 at 05:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
I keep looking at it and think how the hel does it fit in the hole


Only just, I had to fit a SAAB idler pulley to clear the chassis. There is 20mm clearance at the cam covers.
Doing it again I would fit an electric water pump, so no need for idler pulleys.


Yeah I've gone for EWP,never used one before but like the sound of how the controller works,faster warm up from cold is a bonus,the controller just pulses the pump at set intervals until the coolant is nearly at your target temperature set in controller.
With these engines having a remote thermostat the EWP set up makes the pipework set up much easier and neater too.


CosKev3 - 17/4/19 at 05:13 PM

Incase anybody comes across this thread in future and is interested in the weight of the engine heres some idea:

Bare engine with just†small Denso alt fitted=120kg.

As above with ST200 upper inlet†manifold and ST200 solid flywheel =132kg.

As above with RX8 6 speed gearbox and Mondeo 240mm clutch=181kg.

[Edited on 17/4/19 by CosKev3]


big_wasa - 17/4/19 at 05:49 PM

On the St220 the water pump is driven from a pulley on the back of the head and is prety compact. But that means more plumbing like a Zetec.

I did test fit the adapter plate last week end. One of the locating dowls is in a differant place.

I hope to get started on the wiring loom Easter Monday as the wife is working

[Edited on 17/4/19 by big_wasa]


CosKev3 - 17/4/19 at 06:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
On the St220 the water pump is driven from a pulley on the back of the head and is prety compact. But that means more plumbing like a Zetec.

I did test fit the adapter plate last week end. One of the locating dowls is in a differant place.

I hope to get started on the wiring loom Easter Monday as the wife is working

[Edited on 17/4/19 by big_wasa]


Who's plate have you bought?


big_wasa - 17/4/19 at 06:14 PM

One of Jonathan Hughes Aj30 to Rx8 plates.


RWD Focus - 19/4/19 at 03:25 PM

What is the direction of rotation of the AJ30 engine? Just asking for a mate who has just rung and asked me.
Thanks


CosKev3 - 19/4/19 at 08:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
One of Jonathan Hughes Aj30 to Rx8 plates.


Strange,that's who mine is off and it fits straight on.


big_wasa - 19/4/19 at 09:15 PM

Isnít yours a jag lump ? Mines a Ford.

There are two holes for the dowl. The jag must use one and the ford another.

I will get a photo.


CosKev3 - 19/4/19 at 09:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Isnít yours a jag lump ? Mines a Ford.

There are two holes for the dowl. The jag must use one and the ford another.

I will get a photo.


Ah yeah,forgot you were using a FWD V6


CosKev3 - 11/6/19 at 08:07 AM

Well mines up and running

Big thanks to Dave(40inches) for his help and knowledge on this engine on here and via email

Mapped yesterday by Dale @Bailey Performance and the results were awesome!

286bhp,254bhp at the wheels

https://youtu.be/cR57ENgqC_M

Wet roads on the drive home meant I didn't use more than half throttle, and it was still very fast


BaileyPerformance - 11/6/19 at 09:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Well mines up and running

Big thanks to Dave(40inches) for his help and knowledge on this engine on here and via email

Mapped yesterday by Dale @Bailey Performance and the results were awesome!

286bhp,254bhp at the wheels

https://youtu.be/cR57ENgqC_M

Wet roads on the drive home meant I didn't use more than half throttle, and it was still very fast



I look a bit miserable in the video, i should be smiling we power like that out of a stock engine!

[Edited on 11/6/19 by BaileyPerformance]


CosKev3 - 11/6/19 at 09:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Well mines up and running

Big thanks to Dave(40inches) for his help and knowledge on this engine on here and via email

Mapped yesterday by Dale @Bailey Performance and the results were awesome!

286bhp,254bhp at the wheels

https://youtu.be/cR57ENgqC_M

Wet roads on the drive home meant I didn't use more than half throttle, and it was still very fast



I look a bit miserable in the video, i should be smiling we power like that out of a stock engine!

[Edited on 11/6/19 by BaileyPerformance]




Cheers for yesterday,totally different car now!

Fired up lovely cold too this morn


BaileyPerformance - 11/6/19 at 09:49 AM



Cheers for yesterday,totally different car now!

Fired up lovely cold too this morn




My pleasure, very nice install, a treat to work on.


CosKev3 - 11/6/19 at 09:55 AM

quote:
Originally posted by BaileyPerformance


Cheers for yesterday,totally different car now!

Fired up lovely cold too this morn


My pleasure, very nice install, a treat to work on.


Thanks

Just dug out that air temp sensor


40inches - 11/6/19 at 10:48 AM

Brilliant Kev
What RPM was peak power at?
Doesn't seem worth the effort fitting ITB's!


CosKev3 - 11/6/19 at 11:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Brilliant Kev
What RPM was peak power at?
Doesn't seem worth the effort fitting ITB's!


I didn't take a pic of the graph,and Dale's printer wasn't working!

If Dale sees this he has it saved on the PC

Pretty sure the graph was still climbing at the 7100rpm limiter.

I did mention to Dale I had read of people running them to over 8000rpm,but he wasn't keen!!!!


40inches - 11/6/19 at 11:36 AM

The limiter was set at 7200rpm on mine and was still climbing



[img][/img]


CosKev3 - 11/6/19 at 02:29 PM


big_wasa - 11/6/19 at 04:22 PM

Thatís a great result.

Any chance of some engine bay shots now the photo uploader is working ?

I would love to see what this engine could make with some long primary headers and throttle bodies. I just don't know how you would get them in a 7.

[Edited on 11/6/19 by big_wasa]


CosKev3 - 11/6/19 at 04:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Thatís a great result.

Any chance of some engine bay shots now the photo uploader is working ?

I would love to see what this engine could make with some long primary headers and throttle bodies.


Dale's currently mapping a Lambo that was in the Fast and Furious 8 that is running a AJ30 in it now,that's got some long primary manifolds on it as it has plenty of space in the back of a Lambo!
It's also running cams and some high comp pistons,but still on the standard AJ30 inlet manifold.

The steering column is the biggest issue in a seven type car to make a decent manifold fit on drivers side.

Throttle bodies would require a massive bonnet bulge,or a big cut out with a massive filter sat outside the bonnet.

[Edited on 11/6/19 by CosKev3]


RWD Focus - 11/6/19 at 04:30 PM

Thats amazing power if mine is near that i will be very happy


CosKev3 - 11/6/19 at 04:32 PM

Photo uploader still wont allow pics off my phone

'Sorry!†is an unnsuported file type. Please email†ChrisW†if you believe it should be'


big_wasa - 11/6/19 at 04:37 PM

You have to re size them first.

I already have the exhaust manifolds but there going to be more suited to a Gt style car.


sdh2903 - 11/6/19 at 04:45 PM

Rocketeer have ran jenveys and their own inlets on the dyno and the jenveys were down on power. I reckon I could fit itbs under my scoop but after seeing the results on a standard engine I'm not sure it's worth it. After seeing Dave's and kevs results on the st200 manifold I'm kind of a bit annoyed I didn't go that route. I always thought it just looked a bit restrictive obviously not!


RWD Focus - 11/6/19 at 04:53 PM

Ive got a couple of st200 manifolds but mine needs the throttle body at the front as the rear is too close to my bulkhead in my focus, i did consider chopping one up and moving throttle body to other end.


big_wasa - 11/6/19 at 05:30 PM

The Rocketeer tbs where on very short inlets with sock filters that are well known to rob power.

I am surprised how the st200 mani performs. Given the restrictions here and the exhaust 300bhp canít be far off.

I guess the question I really want to know is what it drives and handles like ?


sdh2903 - 11/6/19 at 06:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Ive got a couple of st200 manifolds but mine needs the throttle body at the front as the rear is too close to my bulkhead in my focus, i did consider chopping one up and moving throttle body to other end.


You maybe interested in selling one?

If using the st200 setup do you need both upper and lower manifolds? Or do you mate the upper to the jag lower?


RWD Focus - 11/6/19 at 06:46 PM

You mate the two together if i remember correctly. A member on here showed me how he had done his. Im gonna hang onto them just for now incase i need to cut more than one up to make it suit my application. There was one on eBay i think.


RWD Focus - 11/6/19 at 06:53 PM

Ignore that last message, ive just had a look in my other unit and found another st200 inlet complete. So if you want one give me a shout. Its upper with throttle body, lower, injectors and fuel rail. Can post if need be.


CosKev3 - 11/6/19 at 09:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Ive got a couple of st200 manifolds but mine needs the throttle body at the front as the rear is too close to my bulkhead in my focus, i did consider chopping one up and moving throttle body to other end.


You maybe interested in selling one?

If using the st200 setup do you need both upper and lower manifolds? Or do you mate the upper to the jag lower?


I've used plastic AJ30 lower inlet manifold,then chopped up a ST220 alloy lower inlet manifold to make up the 15mm spacer required to fill the gap between the AJ30 lower inlet and the ST200 upper inlet.
Had to weld some tabs onto the sides of the spacer and drill and tap them for the ST200 upper mounting points.


Partofthechaos - 11/6/19 at 09:56 PM

How do you sort the oval jag lower manifold ports and the round st200 upper?


CosKev3 - 12/6/19 at 05:05 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Partofthechaos
How do you sort the oval jag lower manifold ports and the round st200 upper?


I've port matched them the best I could with a die grinder.

The ST200 twin round ports are bigger than the oval ST220/AJ30 ports,so I've ground out the alloy adapter plate I made out of the ST220 lower manifold to match the ST200 upper inlet.
Also took some material out of the ST200 upper between the round ports to make it into virtually one port.

If anyone wants pics U2U your email address and I'll happily send some,I cant be arsed re-sizing pics to add them to this old out of date forum!


40inches - 12/6/19 at 10:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Ive got a couple of st200 manifolds but mine needs the throttle body at the front as the rear is too close to my bulkhead in my focus, i did consider chopping one up and moving throttle body to other end.

Just turn the manifold round? you have to make a spacer anyway.


RWD Focus - 12/6/19 at 10:32 AM

Are they reversible? Would the majority of the bolts line up ?


40inches - 12/6/19 at 10:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Are they reversible? Would the majority of the bolts line up ?

The outlets are mirror images, so should be reversible. Non of the bolt hoes line up, hence the need for a adaptor/spacer.


RWD Focus - 12/6/19 at 10:55 AM

Just offered it up reversed but it catches on oil filler. In order to get it to clear it would be too high and catch on my wiper motor and linkage. Looks like Iím stuck with the one I made using jag inlet.
Thank you for your help and advice


40inches - 12/6/19 at 11:03 AM

Hope you don't mind me putting up your photos Kev?
This is how Kev did it, in my opinion the best way. It's much lower than mine, but needs a small amount of welding, i did mine
without resorting to machining or welding, but would do it Kevs way in hindsight
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[Edited on 12-6-19 by 40inches]

[Edited on 12-6-19 by 40inches]

[Edited on 12-6-19 by 40inches]

[Edited on 12-6-19 by 40inches]


40inches - 12/6/19 at 11:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Just offered it up reversed but it catches on oil filler. In order to get it to clear it would be too high and catch on my wiper motor and linkage. Looks like Iím stuck with the one I made using jag inlet.
Thank you for your help and advice

Can you cut away the idle control castings and weld on a blanking plate? Worth a try, you don't have anything to lose
I run mine without the idle valve, starts fine with a little throttle.


RWD Focus - 12/6/19 at 11:16 AM

Worth a look yes. Thanks


sdh2903 - 13/6/19 at 11:23 AM

Have sent you a u2u RWDfocus regarding the inlet.


CosKev3 - 13/6/19 at 01:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Hope you don't mind me putting up your photos Kev?
This is how Kev did it, in my opinion the best way. It's much lower than mine, but needs a small amount of welding, i did mine
without resorting to machining or welding, but would do it Kevs way in hindsight
Description
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[Edited on 12-6-19 by 40inches]

[Edited on 12-6-19 by 40inches]

[Edited on 12-6-19 by 40inches]

[Edited on 12-6-19 by 40inches]


No probs


big_wasa - 13/6/19 at 02:21 PM

The reason for not using the full lower St220 on the Aj is it because the bolts donít line up or the injectors are in a slightly different place ?

Edit st220 not st200

[Edited on 13/6/19 by big_wasa]


CosKev3 - 13/6/19 at 02:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
The reason for not using the full lower St on the Aj is it because the bolts donít line up or the injectors are in a slightly different place ?


ST200 wouldn't fit into the V between heads,and ST220 lower the injectors are on a different angle,so dont point into port correctly,you could perhaps make it work by reshaping the inlet ports on the head,but obvs that's a head off job.


40inches - 13/6/19 at 03:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
The reason for not using the full lower St on the Aj is it because the bolts donít line up or the injectors are in a slightly different place ?


The lower manifolds are different between the ST200 and ST220/AJ30, I think in both ways
Must learn to type quicker

[Edited on 13-6-19 by 40inches]


big_wasa - 13/6/19 at 03:21 PM

Mines an ST220.

Would be nice if it stopped bloody raining so I could drag it out. I need to sort some engine mounts.


40inches - 13/6/19 at 03:21 PM

Just dug up my research on the AJ30 from 6 years ago
I found one fitted to a Robin Hood that had the standard Jag exhaust manifolds
and a ST220 inlet and Emerald ECU. It made less than the standard power, about 220bhp I think.
Another was fitted in a Westfield, this is the spec from his website:

"Jenvey inlet manifolds and 45mm throttle bodies
Simpson race exhausts stainless 3 2 1 merge collectors
Raceco 7 1/4" titanium re-packable silencers"

That must have been eye wateringly expensive for:
Maximum bhp: 270bhp @ 7050rpm
Maximum torque: 222lbft @ 5322rpm

I think we accidentally hit on the perfect combination with the ST200


big_wasa - 13/6/19 at 04:10 PM

I canít get my head around that.

In the back of my mind I recall all the st200 / st24 owners wanting the American Svt manifold.

Is there a difference between st200 and the vanilla 2.5 Mondeo/ Cougar inlet ?


big_wasa - 13/6/19 at 04:14 PM

Funny enough the Rocketeer on carbon plenums with exhausts didnít make the numbers either.


CosKev3 - 13/6/19 at 04:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Funny enough the Rocketeer on carbon plenums with exhausts didnít make the numbers either.


I've seen a post on Facebook by them with over 280bhp from one,running 750cc injectors without the VVT wired up


40inches - 13/6/19 at 05:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Funny enough the Rocketeer on carbon plenums with exhausts didnít make the numbers either.


I've seen a post on Facebook by them with over 280bhp from one,running 750cc injectors without the VVT wired up

Nearly as good as yours Kev


big_wasa - 13/6/19 at 05:25 PM

I was going on this one.

233 @ the crank


Partofthechaos - 13/6/19 at 05:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Is there a difference between st200 and the vanilla 2.5 Mondeo/ Cougar inlet ?


I hope not, I've just bought a standard one after spending a while looking at photos and concluding there was no visible difference.


big_wasa - 13/6/19 at 05:54 PM

Another v6 Indy.


sdh2903 - 13/6/19 at 06:03 PM

The st200 inlet is different (I'm assuming bigger bore) as it used to be the upgrade of choice along with the throttle body on the st24.


40inches - 13/6/19 at 06:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Partofthechaos
quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Is there a difference between st200 and the vanilla 2.5 Mondeo/ Cougar inlet ?


I hope not, I've just bought a standard one after spending a while looking at photos and concluding there was no visible difference.


The ST200 has the throttle valves in the lower manifold, and I think has the same throttle body opening as the ST220 (the ST220 throttle body fits straight on the ST200 manifold)
The runner bore is slightly larger as well, but the casting is the same, so easy to open them up with a burr grinder. You have to do that to match with the AJ30 lower anyway.


Partofthechaos - 13/6/19 at 06:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Another v6 Indy.




Taking the MX5 apart currently, Jag already broken. I hope to order the first part of the kit in the next month or so, with assemply starting in late August.

I plan to use the Rocketeer adapter plate to use the MX5 gearbox, so a slight variation on the ones I've seen that are on the road, though not sure what the practical difference will be.

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
The st200 inlet is different (I'm assuming bigger bore) as it used to be the upgrade of choice along with the throttle body on the st24.


Damn it. Never mind, it will allow me to get the engine in the car etc, and it may be useful to reduce the power until I'm used to it. Never driven a se7ven before, so in at the deep end... Once it arives I'll compaire it with the AJ30 lowers and report back.


sdh2903 - 13/6/19 at 06:18 PM

I've used the rocketeer adapter, sump and flywheel in my Westfield I'm currently building. It's all good kit. Very well made.


RWD Focus - 13/6/19 at 06:32 PM

How long did you have to wait for the rocketeer sump? Im fed up of emailing them asking when they will have some in stock again. Last i heard from them they said end of may, but now they won't even reply to my emails.


Partofthechaos - 13/6/19 at 06:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
I've used the rocketeer adapter, sump and flywheel in my Westfield I'm currently building. It's all good kit. Very well made.


That's good to hear, most people say the quality is very good, but useful to hear it from someone on here.

Where does the recess in the Rocketeer sump end up? I was thinking of using the gap in the AJ30 sump as the route for an exhaust balance pipe, seems like the easiest location. But the Rocketeer sump would probably not need bits chopped offor baffles, so if the shape is right this would be easier.


sdh2903 - 13/6/19 at 07:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
How long did you have to wait for the rocketeer sump? Im fed up of emailing them asking when they will have some in stock again. Last i heard from them they said end of may, but now they won't even reply to my emails.


They seem to order kits in batches and if you time it wrong then you end up waiting a while. Is it Bruce your dealing with?

Some pics

Rocket1
Rocket1


Starter is on the lower Rh side

Rocket2
Rocket2


Rocket3
Rocket3


Rocket4
Rocket4


Rocket5
Rocket5


RWD Focus - 13/6/19 at 09:03 PM

Yes its Bruce
Ive actually made a sump in the meantime so i can get my engine in and running.


CosKev3 - 14/6/19 at 04:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Just offered it up reversed but it catches on oil filler. In order to get it to clear it would be too high and catch on my wiper motor and linkage. Looks like Iím stuck with the one I made using jag inlet.
Thank you for your help and advice


Have you looked at ST220 one?

Tighter to engine than the Jag one


RWD Focus - 14/6/19 at 05:12 PM

Iíve fabricated one using the ST220 inlet tracts and made my own plenum with flange welded on for the throttle body. Iím using an Impreza throttle body. It fits nice and snug to rocker cover and fits under my wiper linkage. My engine is mounted as far back as it can be without touching the bulkhead


big_wasa - 14/6/19 at 09:40 PM

Any chance of sticking some photos up please ?


RWD Focus - 15/6/19 at 05:06 AM

Im away for the weekend but will sort some when I'm back


big_wasa - 15/6/19 at 06:06 AM

No problem, Thankyou.


Badger_McLetcher - 15/6/19 at 01:39 PM

After yet another day of frustration, I'm finally giving up on my ITB set up - there's just too many problems and it's too fragile (due to my inexperience with such systems and learning as I go); also the results you guys are getting from the ST200 inlet are awesome!

As I can't really be bothered to start an ITB setup from scratch again at this point; can someone tell me what the dimensions of the ST200 manifold are? Especially how far back the throttle body sits, as my coolant bottle is slap bang in the middle of my bulkhead!

Cheers,
Ben


40inches - 15/6/19 at 01:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Badger_McLetcher
After yet another day of frustration, I'm finally giving up on my ITB set up - there's just too many problems and it's too fragile (due to my inexperience with such systems and learning as I go); also the results you guys are getting from the ST200 inlet are awesome!

As I can't really be bothered to start an ITB setup from scratch again at this point; can someone tell me what the dimensions of the ST200 manifold are? Especially how far back the throttle body sits, as my coolant bottle is slap bang in the middle of my bulkhead!

Cheers,
Ben


I think you will have plenty of room for the coolant bottle Ben, the manifold isn't really that big, you can get to the spark plugs easily.
If you need any specific dimensions I can pop up to the garage?
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[Edited on 15-6-19 by 40inches]


Badger_McLetcher - 15/6/19 at 04:56 PM

That sounds promising then! If you could tell me how far back from the rear of the engine the throttle body protudes I can make a call on whether I've got the room to fit it!
Cheers,
Ben


40inches - 15/6/19 at 05:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Badger_McLetcher
That sounds promising then! If you could tell me how far back from the rear of the engine the throttle body protudes I can make a call on whether I've got the room to fit it!
Cheers,
Ben


From the back of the left hand/nearside cylinder head = 90mm, that's a ST220 TB


sdh2903 - 16/6/19 at 09:28 AM

Dave are you using a std 220 60mm throttle body or an enlarged one?


40inches - 16/6/19 at 11:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Dave are you using a std 220 60mm throttle body or an enlarged one?

Just the standard one. Seems adequate


Badger_McLetcher - 16/6/19 at 12:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
From the back of the left hand/nearside cylinder head = 90mm, that's a ST220 TB


Awesome, looks like it'll fit with some minor relocation of stuff; thanks for the info! The inlet and mapping are basically the only thing holding up getting the car finished at the moment, so hopefully using the ST200 inlet will let me get it running soon


RWD Focus - 16/6/19 at 01:43 PM

Not sure if any of you have any luck dealing with Bruce at Rocketeer but heres my experience of trying to buy a sump and gated baffle kit from him for the AJ30 engine.

Original enquiry by phone in early April, and he told me to email my enquiry him. This i did mid April and was told sumps available end of May. I then by reply sent him my full name, address, phone number and offered to pay in full up front for a sump. No reply to that email. In early June i emailed and asked if he had any update on the availability of sumps. again no reply. This morning i emailed him asking if he had any update and also asked if he was receiving my emails as he didn't seem to reply very often. His reply has just landed and it says the following:

Richard.
The sumps we have in stock are earmarked for kits. It'll be another couple of months before we have any surplus.

Best regards

Bruce

I understand a kit sale will make him more money than a sump sale but why not make it clear the sumps in production were for kits and not individual sale. The word tosser springs to mind, im pretty sure if i dealt with my customers in this way in either of my businesses i would have some very unhappy customers.
Rant over.
On with sump making tomorrow that will be ok for rallying rather than the one i made just to get a run out of the car as i was fully intent on using a proven one from Rocketeer.

[Edited on 16/6/19 by RWD Focus]


40inches - 16/6/19 at 02:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Not sure if any of you have any luck dealing with Bruce at Rocketeer but heres my experience of trying to buy a sump and gated baffle kit from him for the AJ30 engine.

Original enquiry by phone in early April, and he told me to email my enquiry him. This i did mid April and was told sumps available end of May. I then by reply sent him my full name, address, phone number and offered to pay in full up front for a sump. No reply to that email. In early June i emailed and asked if he had any update on the availability of sumps. again no reply. This morning i emailed him asking if he had any update and also asked if he was receiving my emails as he didn't seem to reply very often. His reply has just landed and it says the following:

Richard.
The sumps we have in stock are earmarked for kits. It'll be another couple of months before we have any surplus.

Best regards

Bruce

I understand a kit sale will make him more money than a sump sale but why not make it clear the sumps in production were for kits and not individual sale. The word tosser springs to mind, im pretty sure if i dealt with my customers in this way in either of my businesses i would have some very unhappy customers.
Rant over.
On with sump making tomorrow that will be ok for rallying rather than the one i made just to get a run out of the car as i was fully intent on using a proven one from Rocketeer.

[Edited on 16/6/19 by RWD Focus]


Why not use the X-Type sump and pick up?


RWD Focus - 16/6/19 at 02:12 PM

It hits my crossmember, Its an xtype one i have altered to get a run out of the car.
I will just baffle it properly and use that one with slight changes to my crossmember.


Update on Rocketeers customer service skills. My latest email below and then his reply.

Bruce
Why didnít you say that in April when i first emailed you, this was after phoning to enquire about a sump and being told to email my enquiry.
You then sent the following email on 26th April
"Richard,
New sumps should be in at the end of May.
Price is £350 including fitting kit and baffle.
A gated baffle is available if you're thinking of track work. Price £75
BruceĒ

I then offered to pay for one and sent you my full name and address to which i received no reply.

Now you tell me no sumps available. Brilliant customer service skills i must say.
I will ensure as many people as possible get to know how you look after potential customers.


His reply has just arrived.

Richard.
I am looking after customers who have bought full kits. I'm sorry if that is inconvenient for you.
I'm grateful for the condor in your reply. Given your reaction I'll not be supplying you any parts at any time at any price.

Good day.


Im impressed by his response
What a legend.

Tig welder out tomorrow and Bruce can stick his sump up his hole, what a wanker.

[Edited on 16/6/19 by RWD Focus]

[Edited on 16/6/19 by RWD Focus]


dazq - 16/6/19 at 11:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Did you experiment with the VVT?

Did the mapper say it's worth while/noticeable when the VVT is used?

[Edited on 28/2/19 by CosKev3]


The VVT was set to cut in at 5200rpm as on the S-Type, and yes you can see the blip on the graph, worth about
15bhp and 10 torques
I am going back, in about an hour, to have a play with the VVT. A power run with and without it fully activated, the logic being that there should be a cross over point that will become the switch point
The ST200 plenum and ST220 throttle body work well, still accelerating past the 7200RPM red line.
If you are running MS2 Extra I can email you the Msq file, when it is finalised?


I would be very interested in a copy of your msq file please, your rolling road results are really encouraging.


40inches - 17/6/19 at 07:54 AM


I would be very interested in a copy of your msq file please, your rolling road results are really encouraging.


You have a U2U


Partofthechaos - 17/6/19 at 08:08 PM

I've measured the standard (?) 2.5L Ford V6 manifold. The inlet is 57mm, the ports onto the lower manifold are 27mm (long) and 30mm (short). Is anyone able to tell me how far away from the ST200 manifold is this please? Externally it is a very similar design as far as I can tell.

Thanks.

Description
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[Edited on 17/6/19 by Partofthechaos]

[Edited on 17/6/19 by Partofthechaos]


sdh2903 - 18/6/19 at 03:27 PM

St200 inlet. Throttle inlet is just over 65mm. Smaller port is 30mm and bigger 31.5.

Jagin1
Jagin1


Jagin2
Jagin2


Jagin3
Jagin3


big_wasa - 18/6/19 at 05:14 PM

I want to hear these bad boys sing, shiny shiny. Just a shame there no good for a 7





[Edited on 18/6/19 by big_wasa]


Partofthechaos - 20/6/19 at 04:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
St200 inlet. Throttle inlet is just over 65mm. Smaller port is 30mm and bigger 31.5.

Jagin1
Jagin1


Jagin2
Jagin2


Jagin3
Jagin3



Thank you, definitely different then. I wonder if I can do anything with this one or if I've wasted £40.


big_wasa - 20/6/19 at 05:06 PM

If nothing else it will get you up and running until you find one.


Partofthechaos - 20/6/19 at 05:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
If nothing else it will get you up and running until you find one.


Yes, it will allow me to wait till there is one at a good price. It still may be a good idea to reduce the power, stop me stuffing it into the first tree I try to go round. Or maybe not.


dazq - 20/6/19 at 07:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches

I would be very interested in a copy of your msq file please, your rolling road results are really encouraging.


You have a U2U


Hi , have u2u my email Addy. Thanks


Badger_McLetcher - 22/6/19 at 05:21 PM

Right, I got me an ST24 inlet manifold to be getting on with, an ST220 throttle body and some 15mm aluminium plate to make some spacers out of. I offered up the Jag fuel rail but it's too tall - I'd need to make the spacer about 20mm. What fuel rails are you guys using? The ST220 and ST200 ones both look a bit lower profile.

Cheers,
Ben


CosKev3 - 22/6/19 at 05:30 PM

Standard AJ30 fuel rail on mine,with all the standard crap cut off the ends and AN6 fittings welded on.

ST220 injectors are at a different angle to AJ30,hence why a ST220 lower inlet wont fit.

What makes you say AJ30 rail wont fit?

[Edited on 22/6/19 by CosKev3]


sdh2903 - 22/6/19 at 06:49 PM

There must be different versions of the aj30 fuel rail as mine is plastic?


Badger_McLetcher - 22/6/19 at 08:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
There must be different versions of the aj30 fuel rail as mine is plastic?

Aye, mine is also plastic! Although that would now explain why it doesn't fit
Looks like a new fuel rail is on the cards!


sdh2903 - 22/6/19 at 09:19 PM

Oh nutsack my freshly arrived 15mm ally will be useless then


Badger_McLetcher - 22/6/19 at 09:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Oh nutsack my freshly arrived 15mm ally will be useless then

Aye, looks like. Or you could swap to a different fuel rail, which is what I'm planning on doing as cutting out even 15mm thickness is a PITA!


CosKev3 - 22/6/19 at 10:45 PM

What year engines did the plastic ones come off?

Both engines I've got had metal ones,strange


CosKev3 - 22/6/19 at 10:53 PM

Oh yeah just looked on ebay,the plastic fuel rail lower inlet is quite different to the one with a metal fuel rail.

I think you will need to get one with a metal rail to work with the ST200 upper.

On the top of the metal rail I've cut the pipe inlet off flat with the rail,then welded AN fittings on the ends.
On the rear of the rail under the TB I've had to extend the rail with some steel pipe and angle it down so the rail exits under the TB.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F201946977532


40inches - 22/6/19 at 11:15 PM

Mine is the plastic lower, but I used the 2litre fuel rail because it's dead ended.


CosKev3 - 23/6/19 at 07:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
Mine is the plastic lower, but I used the 2litre fuel rail because it's dead ended.


Mines got plastic lower manifold,but not plastic fuel rail

Also the gasket set up/seals are different looking at pics,mine with the steel fuel rail uses oval O rings to seal to head and also the upper,the plastic fuel rail set up uses gaskets by the looks of it.


sdh2903 - 23/6/19 at 08:57 AM

This is what I have.

Jagplain
Jagplain


Seems to be the early engines had this set up then 01 onwards have the steel rail. This uses gaskets rather than the oval o rings.

Dave was yours the same as this? And you used the 2.0 v6 one? A straight swap I take it with injector fitment/angles etc?


sdh2903 - 23/6/19 at 09:17 AM

In fact looking on the bigger screen on the laptop looks like its going to have to be a full lower manifold change. Ffs. Hope the injectors are all the same as I've had these overhauled.


40inches - 23/6/19 at 09:59 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
In fact looking on the bigger screen on the laptop looks like its going to have to be a full lower manifold change. Ffs. Hope the injectors are all the same as I've had these overhauled.

This is the rail I used eBay Item


sdh2903 - 23/6/19 at 10:24 AM

Cheers Dave. I dont know if its camera angles or if the lower manifold with the steel rail looks thinner? than the one with the plastic rail aswell.


40inches - 23/6/19 at 11:29 AM

The steel rail is thinner and much lower profile.


sdh2903 - 23/6/19 at 11:30 AM

Have just offered up the inlet (with fuel rail removed) and I'm still probably a 25mm spacer short.

Jaginlet5
Jaginlet5


Having seen the pics of kevs build up his lower inlet looks a bit thicker. Have measured up the lower inlet and I have a depth of around 47mm. If anyone has the type of lower manifold with the metal fuel rail could you by any chance measure its thickness to compare?

Jaginlet6
Jaginlet6


sdh2903 - 23/6/19 at 11:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
The steel rail is thinner and much lower profile.


I was meaning the lower manifold itself Dave. Sorry it wasnt very clear.


40inches - 23/6/19 at 12:03 PM

I have just measured my spacer and it is 30mm, that gives me 30mm clearance to the highest part of the steel fuel rail
from the manifold. So a 15mm spacer would give 15mm clearance.
I will see if I can measure the lower inlet. my engine is a 2001.


40inches - 23/6/19 at 12:15 PM

As near as I can tell the lower manifold is 50mm high.


sdh2903 - 23/6/19 at 12:31 PM

Thanks Dave. And apologies for taking over your dyno thread


40inches - 23/6/19 at 01:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Thanks Dave. And apologies for taking over your dyno thread


No problem. Makes it more interesting, seems to be the goto thread


sdh2903 - 23/6/19 at 01:40 PM

I've just sussed that another reason why its sat a bit higher is of the COP's its resting on them. A 25mm spacer will do I think. Think I'm going to have to go the same road as kev and machine an st220 manifold to suit as I dont fancy drilling out a 25mm block of ally


40inches - 23/6/19 at 02:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
I've just sussed that another reason why its sat a bit higher is of the COP's its resting on them. A 25mm spacer will do I think. Think I'm going to have to go the same road as kev and machine an st220 manifold to suit as I dont fancy drilling out a 25mm block of ally


I went for a coil pack instead of COP.
The upper/lower ST200 seal is a plastic/rubber gasket about 4/5mm thick. I don't see why a couple can't be stacked
eBay Item



[Edited on 23-6-19 by 40inches]

[Edited on 23-6-19 by 40inches]


sdh2903 - 30/6/19 at 01:32 PM

If anyone interested here is the difference between the 2 lower inlets. The all plastic fuel rail version is 99-01 and the steel rail is 01 onwards. There is a 10mm difference in height with the steel rail version being taller aswell as the much taller fuel rail with the plastic rail.

Jagfuelrail
Jagfuelrail


The 2.1 rail works a treat with no blanking of the fuel rail pressure sensor needed. Thanks for the heads up with that Dave.

[Edited on 30/6/19 by sdh2903]


big_wasa - 18/7/19 at 12:02 PM

I finally got around to slapping the plenum on the Duratec 30. The ports are huge and look much bigger than the St200.

Question, how high does the st200 manifold sit above the rocker cover please ?

I will try and get some better photos if it compares well.



I also commented that the Aj30 plate didnít bolt direct to the Duratec 30 as there was a dowl in a differant location. I got the dowl out but the plate doesnít seem a great fit. Even with just one dowl in the block I canít get all the bolts to go in. And I can tell from the starter flywheel itís not 100% centred.



[Edited on 18/7/19 by big_wasa]

[Edited on 18/7/19 by big_wasa]


big_wasa - 18/7/19 at 12:06 PM

And the first start on the Oem ecu


RWD Focus - 22/7/19 at 06:15 PM

On the Jaguar version there are two senders close to each other on the near side of the engine tapped into an oil gallery. One has one wire one has two wires. Am I right in thinking the one with one wire is oil light and the other one is oil temperature? Or is it an oil pressure sender ? Thanks


big_wasa - 22/7/19 at 06:34 PM

One wire is the low oil pressure switch. It earths through the block. The second ? Wouldnít oil temp need more volume like in the sump ?


RWD Focus - 22/7/19 at 06:52 PM

I thought 1 wire would be for oil pressure light. Maybe the car had an oil pressure gauge, i can't remember, that may be the 2 wire sender. Your right about oil temp probably needing to be in the sump.
I will get a couple of pics tomorrow.


CosKev3 - 22/7/19 at 07:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
I thought 1 wire would be for oil pressure light. Maybe the car had an oil pressure gauge, i can't remember, that may be the 2 wire sender. Your right about oil temp probably needing to be in the sump.
I will get a couple of pics tomorrow.


If you unscrew the sender it will be clear to see if its temp or pressure.
Temp will be solid,pressure will have a hole in the end!


RWD Focus - 22/7/19 at 07:26 PM

Thank you


RWD Focus - 22/7/19 at 07:39 PM

Bit more googling and 1 is oil pressure light, other one is oil temp.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3330/1961/1600/0ld%20asy.0.jpg

Thanks

[Edited on 22/7/19 by RWD Focus]


CosKev3 - 22/7/19 at 07:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by RWD Focus
Bit more googling and 1 is oil pressure light, other one is oil temp.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3330/1961/1600/0ld%20asy.0.jpg

Thanks

[Edited on 22/7/19 by RWD Focus]


Wonder how they mounted that engine?

Never seen a filter set up like that,or is that a FWD engine?

Only had my hands on RWD s-type ones


RWD Focus - 22/7/19 at 07:46 PM

Strange isn't it. I would say FWD. Mine is mounted very differently. Ive fabricated mounts to pick up on the bolt holes around the oil switches, and same area on the other side

[Edited on 22/7/19 by RWD Focus]


40inches - 22/7/19 at 09:57 PM

Looks like a Ford FWD, possibly a X-type. That photo is the front view.
When they converted it to RWD they used the oil filter/cooler as the engine mount you find on the S-Type.
Description
Description
Description
Description


big_wasa - 23/7/19 at 04:28 PM

Yeh that looks like an x type lump. There is a huge lump of cast iron in the V to hang it of the inner wing. Itís so big you have to take a head of to get it out.


big_wasa - 23/7/19 at 04:31 PM

So I am pondering now.

Iíve seen an st220 converted to Awd with the jag x type box so they must be the same bolt drillingís.


andygtt - 10/10/19 at 10:14 AM

The block for the 3.0L S type / X type and ST220 are the same so all the boxes bolt up if you move the dowels.

Crank is also the the same as is oil pump etc.

Ive swopped between blocks from each in my car when Ive done rebuilds.


Incidentally has anyone considered the plastic plenum from the Maverick... as used on nobles to over 700bhp (mine being one of them).
Looking at the Rocketeer carbon manifold, it looks loverly, but for a single throttle NA engine the chambers look too large to me... given the results being poorer than the ST200 manifold I wonder if they got it wrong.
Ive developed ITB's for mine... it outperforms the ST220 manifold above 6500rpm considerably.

Description
Description


[Edited on 10/10/19 by andygtt]


big_wasa - 10/10/19 at 10:57 AM

Ive been looking at plenum options. Including the 3.7L Cobra.
Trouble with itb's for a 7 style car is going to be height. The fwd manifold actually sits nicely in a 7 due to the step in the bulkhead.

Ive got a lovely set of Nasp exhaust manifolds designed for 3.5/3.7. Not that they would be any good in a 7.

I would love to find a set of -1mm rods like the Nobel. Yours is definitely something to aspire to.


andygtt - 10/10/19 at 11:10 AM

actually -2mm

I actually have 5 spare... as I seem to have lost the 6th one lol

you can get forged pistons that suit the stock length rod (which I run) and you can get KI stock length rods for $600.... but it starts to add up when you find you need oil squirters machined into the stock block and the gaskets and stretch bolts are not cheap...

Not cheap... but then what engine is when your tuning it 3-4 times its stock power?


Oddified - 10/10/19 at 12:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
The block for the 3.0L S type / X type and ST220 are the same so all the boxes bolt up if you move the dowels.

Crank is also the the same as is oil pump etc.

Ive swopped between blocks from each in my car when Ive done rebuilds.


Incidentally has anyone considered the plastic plenum from the Maverick... as used on nobles to over 700bhp (mine being one of them).
Looking at the Rocketeer carbon manifold, it looks loverly, but for a single throttle NA engine the chambers look too large to me... given the results being poorer than the ST200 manifold I wonder if they got it wrong.
Ive developed ITB's for mine... it outperforms the ST220 manifold above 6500rpm considerably.

Description
Description


[Edited on 10/10/19 by andygtt]


Interesting single twin scroll turbo by the looks of it, which one if you don't mind me asking??, and what sort of power band/bhp are you looking at? (i'll be building a new turbo engine for my Metro over the next few months and i'm just gathering info/options...and parts lol).

Ian


andygtt - 10/10/19 at 01:14 PM

I used to run a BW S300SX, made over 700bhp easy and my intake was the limitation... it WAS NOT laggy before anyone asks, it way outperformed any previous twin turbo setup I previously ran.

This engine made power from 4000-8000rpm... it made 700bhp for 1500rpm so wasn't peaky.
It was making 500ftlb from 4000rpm! peak torque was 630ftlb wish from memory.

For the Jag heads and the new engine package Im targeting 8500rpm and much more power than before.

For the new spec engine I have moved to a BW EFR9174 which I have seen make 1000bhp... but you really need to match the compressor map to your engine.



[Edited on 10/10/19 by andygtt]


40inches - 10/10/19 at 03:12 PM

Was this the one Andy?
Description
Description


andygtt - 10/10/19 at 03:58 PM

Yes thats one of my old dyno charts, I moved it on 50bhp from that a few years later

had the same throttle response to my V10 M5's so it was very controllable on the throttle.... This V6 is a truly awesome bit of kit and very underrated and underused.

Worth mentioning the ford version of the sump has the bowl and pickup at the rear so might well miss a 7 type crossmember!


CosKev3 - 10/10/19 at 09:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
The block for the 3.0L S type / X type and ST220 are the same so all the boxes bolt up if you move the dowels.

Crank is also the the same as is oil pump etc.

Ive swopped between blocks from each in my car when Ive done rebuilds.


Incidentally has anyone considered the plastic plenum from the Maverick... as used on nobles to over 700bhp (mine being one of them).
Looking at the Rocketeer carbon manifold, it looks loverly, but for a single throttle NA engine the chambers look too large to me... given the results being poorer than the ST200 manifold I wonder if they got it wrong.
Ive developed ITB's for mine... it outperforms the ST220 manifold above 6500rpm considerably.

Description
Description


[Edited on 10/10/19 by andygtt]


Very nice

Is that a mondeo gearbox?

What clutch do you use for that power?


andygtt - 11/10/19 at 06:03 AM

I used to run a ford mondeo ST220 gearbox (that's what's fitted stock in the noble)... but Ive made an adapter plate and moved to a more modern box with beefier internals so I can release more torque (it was capped at around 630ftlb in the mod range). Not run the new box yet.

I developed a triple plate clutch to fit the engine, very light and responsive... so light it allows flat shifts going up (similar shift times to a sequential) but has to be heavily blipped going down as it drops to idle between shifts if you change normally. kinda tainted the driving experience on the road but I wasn't prepared to take a backwards step so am going DBW to control the down shifts and retain the awesome upshifts.

Its not a dyno queen engine either, totally usable the car does 0-150mph in sub 10 seconds... that's with no traction aids, which shows the spread of power and contrail nature of the engine.

I love this engine which is why i'm continuing to tweek it and find the best places to make more power for less boost.


RWD Focus - 11/10/19 at 06:45 AM

Hi Andy
You say you have developed a throttle body set up. What actual throttle bodies are you using?
Thank you
Richard


andygtt - 11/10/19 at 08:22 AM

M3 throttle bodies with a carbon lower manifold to adapt from the ITB's to the head.


CosKev3 - 11/10/19 at 08:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
I used to run a ford mondeo ST220 gearbox (that's what's fitted stock in the noble)... but Ive made an adapter plate and moved to a more modern box with beefier internals so I can release more torque (it was capped at around 630ftlb in the mod range). Not run the new box yet.

I developed a triple plate clutch to fit the engine, very light and responsive... so light it allows flat shifts going up (similar shift times to a sequential) but has to be heavily blipped going down as it drops to idle between shifts if you change normally. kinda tainted the driving experience on the road but I wasn't prepared to take a backwards step so am going DBW to control the down shifts and retain the awesome upshifts.

Its not a dyno queen engine either, totally usable the car does 0-150mph in sub 10 seconds... that's with no traction aids, which shows the spread of power and contrail nature of the engine.

I love this engine which is why i'm continuing to tweek it and find the best places to make more power for less boost.


Nice

Must agree on the power delivery,from the moment you touch the throttle to the rev limiter it's so linear, no torque spikes etc.

You've made the carbon parts yourself for ITBs?

Pics would be great please


andygtt - 11/10/19 at 09:03 AM

there is a picture above of the carbon plenum I made... my whole car is carbon, just making a new dash ATM.

Really must stop playing with the noble and get back to the carbon capri... Im easily distracted with my hobby projects lol

I must admit i'm really looking forward to playing with the VVT on the jag heads, the ford ones were on the absolute limit at 8000rpm (due to the rockers but I never actually had a failure despite going to 8100rpm), I've gone dry sump so I can go higher with the jag ones (oil pump is the limitation on revs on the Jag BTW) but i'm not sure if the VVT is going to cope at those rev ranges.

The fact the stock engine with a decent intake and exhaust can go to 270-280bhp bodes well compared to the Ford heads that can't get close to that.

I get excited by threads like this by people bucking the trend and trying there own ideas... so many armchair experts when it comes to these areas its hard to sift the facts from the bull.


CosKev3 - 11/10/19 at 09:23 AM

The VVT restricted top end power on mine,so now it comes on at 1800rpm and goes off at 5800rpm,rev limit set to 7100rpm and power was still climbing but mapper wasn't too keen to rev it higher!

My m8 has deleted the VVT,runs Piper cams and a 8500rpm rev limiter,running a dry sump system along with forged rods and pistons and Jenvey Itbs,that made 326bhp.


andygtt - 11/10/19 at 09:49 AM

On stock pistons I wouldn't rev it too high either, I run forged pistons.

Main reason to run ITB's on mine is so I could make the plenum to whatever size I wanted, my stock ford one becomes less efficient above 6500rpm and can't flow enough air for much more than 700bhp... the gains Im expecting will be from that rather than the ITB's themselves.
As I said earlier, whilst good looking the Rocketeer plenum doesn't look the right volumes for NA to me, if its slightly wrong it will loose power all over the place... its this reason I went ITB, as the plenum size is less sensitive, its just about getting runner lengths correct on ITB's and they are relatively easy to get right.

On the dyno on a stock ST220 engine my ITB's gained power everywhere except between 4500-6500rpm... and I cap torque to save the box in that rev range..... now don't get me wrong the ITB's never bettered the stock plenum as the engines peak was in that range, but stock it goes off a total cliff at 6500rpm and my ITB's kept it climbing to 7100rpm were the engine hit its cam limit.
I expected the mid and top end results, but it was a total surprise to find they were better slightly low down, I was expecting it to be rubbish there.

Im also hoping to unleash some music from the engine, the turbo makes it loose the V6 song and just becomes angry sounding rather than tuneful if that makes sense.


Oddified - 11/10/19 at 09:54 AM

My goals are only 450/500bhp (at least for now lol). Plan is just fit k1 rods, forged pistons, drill for the oil squirters (but also fit jets, not just drilled holes...), mild porting/cleaning up in the heads and it should make what i'm after with less than 1 bar boost. Interesting that your running up to 8000rpm on the st220 heads/finger follows, standard valve springs or uprated?.

Ian


andygtt - 11/10/19 at 10:13 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
My goals are only 450/500bhp (at least for now lol). Plan is just fit k1 rods, forged pistons, drill for the oil squirters (but also fit jets, not just drilled holes...), mild porting/cleaning up in the heads and it should make what i'm after with less than 1 bar boost. Interesting that your running up to 8000rpm on the st220 heads/finger follows, standard valve springs or uprated?.

Ian


Stock noble engines with cast pistons and short rods make reliable 450-500bhp, add forged pistons and you can go to 550bhp.

What you plan should see your target at 0.6-7 bar... the ford heads respond fantastically to mild flowing (much better than the jag versions).... with my massive old truck turbo mine made 480bhp at 0.6bar and a very usable power band, I could give it full beans in wet with this actuator pressure it was so smooth.

DONT run stock valve springs, fit the piper upgraded ones, boost makes the valves bounce with stock springs even at low revs and in worst case can cause the valves to fail (ie head drop off), its rare, but it has happened.... its for this reason noble retarded the exhaust cam one tooth to reduce the engines top end rpm range.

The noble block just has welding tips drilled and tapped into the block, I've had the valve versions but am moving away from them as its another thing to fail without you being aware... I can monitor and manage idle oil pressure.

The oil pump is the mechanical limitation for revs as past 8000rpm it cavities and can also break, the followers are claimed to fail, but I've not know of them failing even though I've rev'd to that for 8 years and know of others who have taken them to 8600rpm (big issues for the ST220 engine at those revs tho).

edited to add a video of my lardy ST220 powered car on Silverstone... gives you an idea what this engine is capable of with a turbo.


ST220 engine with a turbo


[Edited on 11/10/19 by andygtt]


Oddified - 11/10/19 at 10:22 AM

That's great info thank you very much, i'll add valve springs to my list of parts i'm gathering at the moment

Ian


big_wasa - 11/10/19 at 12:16 PM

Wow that moves.


CosKev3 - 11/10/19 at 04:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
My goals are only 450/500bhp (at least for now lol). Plan is just fit k1 rods, forged pistons, drill for the oil squirters (but also fit jets, not just drilled holes...), mild porting/cleaning up in the heads and it should make what i'm after with less than 1 bar boost. Interesting that your running up to 8000rpm on the st220 heads/finger follows, standard valve springs or uprated?.

Ian


Stock noble engines with cast pistons and short rods make reliable 450-500bhp, add forged pistons and you can go to 550bhp.

What you plan should see your target at 0.6-7 bar... the ford heads respond fantastically to mild flowing (much better than the jag versions).... with my massive old truck turbo mine made 480bhp at 0.6bar and a very usable power band, I could give it full beans in wet with this actuator pressure it was so smooth.

DONT run stock valve springs, fit the piper upgraded ones, boost makes the valves bounce with stock springs even at low revs and in worst case can cause the valves to fail (ie head drop off), its rare, but it has happened.... its for this reason noble retarded the exhaust cam one tooth to reduce the engines top end rpm range.

The noble block just has welding tips drilled and tapped into the block, I've had the valve versions but am moving away from them as its another thing to fail without you being aware... I can monitor and manage idle oil pressure.

The oil pump is the mechanical limitation for revs as past 8000rpm it cavities and can also break, the followers are claimed to fail, but I've not know of them failing even though I've rev'd to that for 8 years and know of others who have taken them to 8600rpm (big issues for the ST220 engine at those revs tho).

edited to add a video of my lardy ST220 powered car on Silverstone... gives you an idea what this engine is capable of with a turbo.


ST220 engine with a turbo


[Edited on 11/10/19 by andygtt]


That sounds lovely fairdos


CosKev3 - 28/1/20 at 09:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 40inches
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
Did you experiment with the VVT?

Did the mapper say it's worth while/noticeable when the VVT is used?

[Edited on 28/2/19 by CosKev3]


The VVT was set to cut in at 5200rpm as on the S-Type, and yes you can see the blip on the graph, worth about
15bhp and 10 torques
I am going back, in about an hour, to have a play with the VVT. A power run with and without it fully activated, the logic being that there should be a cross over point that will become the switch point
The ST200 plenum and ST220 throttle body work well, still accelerating past the 7200RPM red line.
If you are running MS2 Extra I can email you the Msq file, when it is finalised?


Hi
Just been shown a diagram from Jag that shows the VVT being 'advanced' from 1000rpm to 5200rpm,and 'retarded' from 5200rpm to the red line.
Bit strange!


CosKev3 - 28/1/20 at 09:41 AM

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JjiGmJXOjAea5lGTwCKgG8o_xC9wuCXM/view

Page 24 in that


Oddified - 28/1/20 at 10:11 AM

Very interesting/useful document for info, i've saved a copy just in case in the future i want to play with a mix and match engine combination of st220/jag hybrid


CosKev3 - 28/1/20 at 10:53 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
Very interesting/useful document for info, i've saved a copy just in case in the future i want to play with a mix and match engine combination of st220/jag hybrid


Hows the running in going?


Oddified - 28/1/20 at 02:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
Very interesting/useful document for info, i've saved a copy just in case in the future i want to play with a mix and match engine combination of st220/jag hybrid


Hows the running in going?


All good got a few hundred miles on the engine now. As suspected it is a bit quicker with the head porting even though the compression has been dropped a bit. Just gathering the last few parts and machining/making/welding up the parts for the turbo install...next week is the plan


CosKev3 - 28/1/20 at 05:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
quote:
Originally posted by Oddified
Very interesting/useful document for info, i've saved a copy just in case in the future i want to play with a mix and match engine combination of st220/jag hybrid


Hows the running in going?


All good got a few hundred miles on the engine now. As suspected it is a bit quicker with the head porting even though the compression has been dropped a bit. Just gathering the last few parts and machining/making/welding up the parts for the turbo install...next week is the plan


Nice one.

Pics via email please of the turbo parts


Oddified - 25/4/20 at 04:06 PM

With the lock down, i've been using the car for essential journeys/shopping, and perhaps a little bit of mapping/fine tuning along the way. Started with 0.6bar boost, then shortly after increasing that i needed larger injectors again and a stronger clutch and upped the wastegate spring, boost solenoid/closed loop, ecu knock detection/control, water/meth injection over 1 bar and data logging everything. The engines really do like a bit of boost! , 3 switchable maps set up now with 0.85bar, 1 bar and 1.25 bar...for now!. It does go very well indeed

Ian


big_wasa - 25/4/20 at 05:52 PM

Very very cool


Nevtiger - 2/5/20 at 07:48 AM

Hi guys a bit of advice if I may.

Iím using the AJ30 with an RX8 gearbox in a Chrysler Sunbeam With some of the Rocketeer parts.

What exhaust manifolds are being used? I can find Moneo tubular ones but I canít seem to find any RWD application ones that I can then modify?

Nev


CosKev3 - 2/5/20 at 08:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Nevtiger
Hi guys a bit of advice if I may.

Iím using the AJ30 with an RX8 gearbox in a Chrysler Sunbeam With some of the Rocketeer parts.

What exhaust manifolds are being used? I can find Moneo tubular ones but I canít seem to find any RWD application ones that I can then modify?

Nev


I used a aftermarket mondeo one modified on the passenger side.

On the drivers side I've used a aftermarket Mitsubishi FTO one with a AJ30 flange welded onto it.

DanST engineering sell AJ30 manifold flanges.

I've run the drivers side under the sump,using a Jag xtype sump,then merged them together into one exhaust system on the pass side as I didn't want twin exhausts on the outside of my car.

If you want some pics email me teare820@btinternet.com


big_wasa - 2/5/20 at 09:01 PM

Mine


Nevtiger - 3/5/20 at 07:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
Mine




Did you have those made or are they from something else? They look nice.


big_wasa - 3/5/20 at 07:36 AM

They are from a Ginetta G50 with the 3.5/3.7 cyclone engine.

Iíve chopped the flange of and bought some thick stainless steel Aj/Duratec30 flanges. Iíve only got as far as tacking one side on due to multi projects.

They will suit a Gt style car but probably not my 7.

If you have been lucky enough to be able to buy Rocketeer parts would they not sell you a pair of thereís ?


Nevtiger - 3/5/20 at 08:56 AM

Interesting you should say that!

I had asked Bruce for a pair of manifolds, he said they would be a few months but eventually he then sent out the email to all customers stating they were going to concentrate on converting cars only so I never did get a pair. However they would still need modifying as the starter is still in the Jaguar position and not the Rocketeer position.


big_wasa - 3/5/20 at 09:24 AM

One of the chaps on here had a similar run in with a Bruce but didnít manage to get any parts. I think he then said he would only do the kits. Strange as the market for a kit must be small but people spending smaller chunks for there own projects will be larger. In my book a sale is a profit, so his must be more off a hobby for like minded mx5 fans with deep pockets.


DanSt does some nice head flanges.


Nevtiger - 3/5/20 at 09:44 AM

I didnít have a run in with Bruce I found him to be a nice guy. Biggest issue for him I believe was he was/is? In full time employment as well as doing the kits.

But I do agree that sales to allow conversions to other vehicles would be a cash bonus for him.


CosKev3 - 3/5/20 at 12:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by big_wasa
One of the chaps on here had a similar run in with a Bruce but didnít manage to get any parts. I think he then said he would only do the kits. Strange as the market for a kit must be small but people spending smaller chunks for there own projects will be larger. In my book a sale is a profit, so his must be more off a hobby for like minded mx5 fans with deep pockets.


DanSt does some nice head flanges.


I contacted Rocketeer before I started my conversion, but £1300 for sump/flywheel/bell housing to mount a £200 engine didn't feel right or make sense to me!

Circa £400 doing it the way I have with the adapter plate and modified ST200 flywheel.


big_wasa - 3/5/20 at 05:27 PM

I donít mind paying for good quality parts but there is something very satisfying about macking stuff.


Nevtiger - 20/5/20 at 03:42 PM

Interestingly Rocketeer have started selling things again to self builders. They had put a stop on it.