cadebytiger
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 12:48 PM |
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Emergency Stop (driving test)
My friend has just failed her driving test on an emergency stop (annoying!). She did not stop hard enough.
The information she has from her driving instructor about what to do in an emergency braking test are vague at best so I thought someone may be able
to help clear this up.
The car she is being tested in has ABS - Is it acceptable to simply bang the brake down as hard as you can and let the ABS do the work? (provided you
clutch just before you stop).
There seems to be a disparity here - if the above is the case then people moving from cars with ABS to those without are not going to know how to do
an emergency stop...
Anyone know what THE BOOK says?
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nitram38
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 12:53 PM |
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ABS is hard braking.
Cadence braking, where you lift and re-apply the brake is for non-abs braking only.
If you do cadence on ABS it confuses the ABS brain and could make the situation worse.
If you think about it, this comes from driver experience and knowledge of your car. Its important for a driver to know this stuff. It's in the
handbook. Her fault if she didn't read it. Always the drivers responsibility to check.
Like driving a company car with bald tyres, its always the drivers responsibility to check
[Edited on 23/7/2010 by nitram38]
[Edited on 23/7/2010 by nitram38]
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scudderfish
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 12:55 PM |
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Emergency stop means you need to stop the car as fast as safely possible whilst keeping it under control. Let the ABS do it's thing.
As for not knowing what to do in a non-ABS car, how many of those are there now (apart from ours)? I'd say that was a minor concern compared to
the complete lack of instruction and test of motorway driving.
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 12:58 PM |
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she doesn't even have to worry about the clutch, stalling on emergency stop is only a minor I think.
Craig
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l0rd
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 01:10 PM |
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There are quite a lot non ABS cars actually
Take prety much anything before 1994-5
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BenB
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 01:11 PM |
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That's a bit unfair IMHO. It's a bit like on the MOT when using the tippy tappy decelerometer when they say "brake quickly but not
too quickly". Eh?
then again, I think that might have been to do with them sat in the passenger seat without the harness done up 
Still I think the OP's friend has every right to feel aggrieved. the imaginary road obstruction that the person taking the test was avoiding
might have been further away than the imaginary road obstruction that the examiner was talking about. No need to slam on the anchors and trigger the
ABS unless it's needed.....
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morcus
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 01:11 PM |
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My experience were clutchless so I can't speak on that front but for emergancy stops on test (I did more than one on seperate tests) was just a
case of putting the break pedal firmly into the carpet. My instructor said the corsa wasn't powerful enough to worry about it sliding and the
ABS would do its thing. My instructor also said its quite easy to fail an emergancy stop in the setting off phase afterwards as not checking both
blind spots can get noted down as a failed manouver.
I totally agree about the above comment about motorway driving. I took a motorway lesson after I passed my test and I learnt alot in those two hours,
including that stuff most other people had told me was completely wrong.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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Miks15
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 01:17 PM |
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as craig says stalling on the emergency stop is only a minor because it does not put you or the object in any further danger. The way my instructor
said it was that his folders should fall off the back seat and end up on the floor.
It took me a few times to get used to applying enough pressure.
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cadebytiger
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 01:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Miks15
as craig says stalling on the emergency stop is only a minor because it does not put you or the object in any further danger. The way my instructor
said it was that his folders should fall off the back seat and end up on the floor.
It took me a few times to get used to applying enough pressure.
Me too - but with ABS its a no brainer right? Slam the pedal in as hard as you can and let the ABS do the rest?
I was just wondering if they get funny if it is obvious that you are doing that (i.e. applying what would be way too much force in a non-ABS car)
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Bluemoon
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 01:44 PM |
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My guess would be she simply did not stop quickly enough, need to stamp on breaks/clutch much quicker and sharper; I bet if a child had really jumped,
they she would have stopped a lot quicker..
Annoying but fair failure, if that's all she failed on should be easy next time..
The snag with ABS is when you move to a car without it....
Only test the emergency stop in 1 in 3 tests...
quote "Do not "stand on the brakes" or try to lock the wheels, however see comment re: ABS that follows. Ultra rapid reactions is
not what is being looked for, just a controlled rapid stop, done without delay. A point about ABS, if your car is fitted with this, correct procedure
is to put both clutch and brake pedals down together and harshly, otherwise the ABS will not work properly. The examiner will not mark you down for
this. For those interested, see the various references to this in the DSA book "Driving, the Essential Skills", and the DT1 document
(Examiners' "Bible" chapter 1) on the DSA web site (DSA), navigate via publications then DT1 at the bottom. "
[Edited on 23/7/10 by Bluemoon]
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adithorp
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 01:47 PM |
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Trouble is, only the examiner realy knows how hard she stopped. Chances are he's doing a lot of tests and knows the difference.
Tests showed a large percentage of people didn't apply max pressure to the brake in an emergency and hence manufacturers started working on
emergency brake assist.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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GBaggott
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 02:11 PM |
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My GF recently passed and I went out with her in the passenger seat, F**k me I was scared sh*tless. During general driving she didn't press the
pedal hard enough and sailed into the middle of a dual carridgeway round about stopping in about the middle lane!!!!
Bloody good job nothing was coming.
Don't mean to be harsh but probably worth a fail, you don't want to be getting in the car with somebody light footed on the brakes, trust
me.
Plus my girlfriend doesn't know what ABS means - this stuff should be taught and both methods should be practiced.
But I love my GF so didn't go too mad and will only let her have an ABS car.
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Canada EH!
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 02:23 PM |
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Having done instructing for the Toronto Police when ABS became available in Police vehicles.
For dry road conditions hit the brake as hard as you can and hold it, meanwhile steering the vehicle if necessary away from the problem.
Yes the car will steer with the ABS full on. In wet conditions the same applies.
One other thing if you find the wheels on one side of the vehicle are on a loose substance such as gravel, and wheels on the other side of the vehicle
are on dry solid road, hammer on the brakes, ABS will stop the wheels on the loose substance from locking, while the wheels on the solid pavement will
bring the vehicle to a stop.
Snow is different, threashold braking will stop the car in less distance.
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MikeR
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 02:48 PM |
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why do you have to drop the brake and clutch as soon as you start an emergancy stop?
Why can't you just drop the clutch when you're close to stopping?
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Howlor
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 02:50 PM |
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I have undertaken a number of the driver training days at Lotus and would highly recommend them to anyone on here.
One interesting exercise is a garage made of cones with a chicane to enter it. There are a pair of cones about 15M out. You accelerate up to 50mph
then brake once past the cones, steer round the chicane and into the garage and stop before the row of cones. After a bit of practice it is possible
but still not easy. Then he switches the ABS on, automatically if you are a competent driver, first instinct is to lift off as you lock but you have
to just bury the pedal. It is amazing how well it works when tested back to back.
It got really interesting when you do the same test at 70mph. I nailed it once but the rest of the time I just destoyed the cones. The 20mph
difference is just unbelieveable when it comes to stopping!
Anyway in answer to the original question, she should know about the vehicle, what it is equipped with and hence how to drive it. No doubt in my mind
she should have nailed the pedal and got the instructor to kiss the screen!
Steve
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bmseven
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 03:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
why do you have to drop the brake and clutch as soon as you start an emergancy stop?
Why can't you just drop the clutch when you're close to stopping?
You don't and you can 
As said above a stall is only a minor but not reacting/stopping quick enough is a major. As is moving off without proper observation after coming to a
stop.
BMW 7 Resource
Bures Pit anyone?
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morcus
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 06:31 PM |
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I'd like to know if any more specifically was said as to why she failed the manouver (Examiners usually do).
Make sure her instructer goes through the manouver in the next lesson. when I got to test level I was doing loads of them.
As someone said above they only make 1 in 3 do the emergancy stop, but don't try and convince someone they can luck out and not have to do it, I
did it three times, one of those times in a car without ABS (Which I'd forgotten earlier) in my 205 and I stopped that by burrying the pedal and
honestly hadnt even considered it might be any different to the BSM Corsas.
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 09:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
why do you have to drop the brake and clutch as soon as you start an emergancy stop?
Why can't you just drop the clutch when you're close to stopping?
Thats what you should do. The engine will slow the car as well under heavy braking. Same on a motorcycle.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 09:11 PM |
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My tester (oh so long ago) got me to do an emergency stop on a steep hill (plenty of them in Swansea).
It was a case of - do the stop, put the handbrake on, make sure the engine's still running, do a hill start. Bastard!
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MikeR
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| posted on 23/7/10 at 10:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
why do you have to drop the brake and clutch as soon as you start an emergancy stop?
Why can't you just drop the clutch when you're close to stopping?
Thats what you should do. The engine will slow the car as well under heavy braking. Same on a motorcycle.
It is what i do - hence i was asking why i shouldn't as I learnt before ABS became as popular / standard as it is today.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 24/7/10 at 07:39 AM |
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I was told to do "Brake brake clutch" in order to stop the stalling.
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cadebytiger
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| posted on 24/7/10 at 08:41 AM |
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That is what my friend was told and I think it was interpreted as brake then brake harder then clutch. This missunderstanding would have been picked
up if they had practiced it more than twice (the instructor was trying to save his car). .... Rant!
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morcus
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| posted on 24/7/10 at 08:19 PM |
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Was that with a smaller driving school?
My dad made me go with BSM because of his personal experiences and those of his coworkers who all say 1 car 'schools' have a tendancy to
worry to much about the car to teach you propperly. My instructor told me it was important to let students bump into curbs or round abouts every now
and then so they'd know what happens (Hitting a roundabout isn't fun as it pulls you up).
In a White Room, With Black Curtains, By the Station.
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