kiwibrisa
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 12:45 AM |
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Another Kent to Zetec conversion
So I have a 1600 crossflow fuel injected on throttle bodies on a type 3 gearbox.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/27/viewthread.php?tid=189722
I am planning to swap the kent for a zetec and I have a few questions for those who have done similar. I have found old post all over the internet
obviously about how to do it but they are all quite old and mostly talk about silver tops.
In NZ there are a lot of late 90s mondeo silvertop 2L zetecs. I can get a complete one with 140kms on it for $300. The blacktops are a lot harder to
find. I have an option for one with 130kms for $1000
I know about the hydraulic lifter rattle etc, this is mainly why I wanted a BT. Also the steel sump would be good.
First question is;
Is the blacktop worth paying 3 times the price and lack of availability or is a ST more than good enough and the hydraulic followers really arnt a
problem if you run lighter oil? Since they are super easy to get here it wouldn’t be an issue if I have problems in the future.
Is the zetec longer from flywheel face to pulley face? My kent pulley is quite close to the chassis
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zetec
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 06:41 AM |
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My lifters have never been a problem, use decent 5-30 oil and all should be OK. Started my car up yesterday after 2 weeks and no noise at all. I think
a lot of the issues was due to garages putting in the wrong oil into what was at the time a new engine...
" I only registered to look at the pictures, now I'm stuck with this username for the rest of my life!"
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19sac65
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 06:43 AM |
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Ime not aware of a bt being bigger than a st
Silvertops with hydraulic tappets are fine if you use the correct 5/30 oil,but using the correct oil is impportant on any engine !!
Ime sure only the early silvertops with dohc on the cam cover were hydros,the ones with zetec were solid
You could also consider a 1.8 and fit 2.0 cams
That would be close to 2.0 power,have a light flywheel and correct water pump
Ive just fitted a early s.top in mine thats been on its side in a wheel barrow for 2 years
Fired straight up,ran on all 4 and a slight tapping went after a few minutes
The money you save will buy more goodies 
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kiwibrisa
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 07:48 AM |
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Is there any difference between the Auto and manual or can I get either?
I need a 1.8 escort waterpump correct?
Also a 1.8 flywheel from a zetec. Would that just be a mondeo or could that come from the same escort the water pump comes from?
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whitestu
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 08:21 AM |
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The 1.8 flywheel can come from any Zetec.
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kiwibrisa
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 08:38 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by whitestu
The 1.8 flywheel can come from any Zetec.
Thanks for that. It has to be a 1.8 and not 1.6? I ask because the escort is not that common but there is a 1.6 at my local wreckers.
Also should a manual flywheel fit an auto?
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big_wasa
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 12:25 PM |
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Not just a zetec but a zetec E.
Yes the 1.6 zetec E found in the fiesta / escort / orion.
The latter 1.6 zetec S is not compatable.
All silver tops are hydraulic lifters. And there are advantages to this engine.
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 01:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kiwibrisa
In NZ there are a lot of late 90s mondeo silvertop 2L zetecs. I can get a complete one with 140kms on it for $300. The blacktops are a lot harder to
find. I have an option for one with 130kms for $1000
You will not find a late 90' Silvertop. The Blacktop replaced the Silvertop in 1998 in the UK, cannot see that differing in New Zealand.
I have had both, great engines but I changed from Silvertop to Blacktop about 5 years ago simply because of availability. When I needed an engine
after a trackday problem I simply could find find a Silvertop. There were lots of Blacktops available both form Mondeo's and the Focus at low
prices but eventually decided to fit a brand spanking crate Blacktop from our UK based Kiwi exile at Raceline.
The advantage was simple for me, should I needs parts in the future Blacktop bits would be much easier to find since they were a) newer and b) from 2
different cars.
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Dick Axtell
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| posted on 18/3/14 at 04:48 PM |
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See Paul Toyne's site
Hi kb. Don't think this site has already been suggested. Check out : - http://www.toyne.org.uk/zetec-engine.html.
Leaf thru his stuff, and you'll find some interesting, useful info.
Work-in-Progress: Changed to Zetec + T9. Still trying!!
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kiwibrisa
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| posted on 20/3/14 at 07:02 PM |
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Will a type 3 gearbox be strong enough? I would guess yes if I dont do burnouts everywhere!
I had a type9 which was too long for me!
What would be the modern day rwd box to bolt to a zetec? Thats the same length or sorter than the type 3.
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turnipfarmer
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| posted on 20/3/14 at 08:18 PM |
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Can't help with the T3, but...
The MT75 box from a Granada or 2WD Sierra bolts straight up to a blacktop & doesn't use a separate bellhousing.
It can also handle more power than the type 9.
I understand it also bolts straight up to a silver top, but I'm not 100% sure on that, so do please check.
Overall, the MT75 is 790mm long or thereabouts, but that includes the gearchange saddle which many folks ditch in favour of an alternative gearchange
arrangement. Without the saddle, it's only just over 600mm.
b]However the MT75 is wider and heavier than the type 9, so it may be unsuitable for those reasons.
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 09:10 AM |
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No idea exactly how long a Type 3 box is but a Type 9 is 1/4" longer than the Type E which was the heavier duty box fitted in 2 litre Cortinas,
the Type 3 was fitted in the 1600's. Since both cars had the exact same gear lever position its probably fair to assume they were the same
length.
With regard to gearbox strength the first thing to remember is the gearbox must be in A1 condition. A type 9 will be stronger but a knackered type 9
will be no good at all. With spirited on road driving a type 3 would be fine, I managed years with 165 bhp going through a Type 2 which was nowhere
near as strong as a Type 3. When I started to track the car I changed to a Type E for safety.
I would not suggest using an MT75 for one simple reason, as in all production boxes 1st gear ratio is horrid. In a Seven the 1st gear that was
intended to pull a boat trailer up a slipway is a total pain and a cottage industry offers a multitude of options for the Type 9 ranging from a simple
change of first gear to a full close ratio set, there are no ratio options for the MT75 unless you spend mega pounds on some very rare Ford rally
sets. Have used boxes at both end of the spectrum, for road use a first gear ratio change is economical and ideal.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 10:46 AM |
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The other issue with the MT75 is that it doesn't use a standard splined output, it has a stupid three pronged spider coupling so you'd
need a custom driveshaft. It's also quite a wide bellhousing.
[Edited on 21/3/14 by MikeRJ]
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turnipfarmer
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| posted on 21/3/14 at 02:20 PM |
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Totally agree with what you say, guys. (Especially as you both know a damn sight more about gearboxes than I do!)
The MT75 certainly isn't without its issues. The first gear ratio is indeed awful, and there's that spider coupling to contend with. Size
& weight may cause problems too. Then there are the questions of availability and price in NZ.
Just thought I'd throw it into the mix because it does fill some of the required criteria in terms of boltupability-to-a-Zetec, the amount of
power it can handle, and how short it is if you opt to ditch the saddle.
But chances are it's still a complete no-no.
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kiwibrisa
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| posted on 22/3/14 at 05:40 AM |
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An mt75 did come up a few months ago but it's not that common to see them. I had a type 9 that I sold (which I wish I hadn't). It was
about 3 inches longer than the type 3. So I couldn't be bothered changing prop shaft etc.
It would be good to shift the whole engine back if I could as I think the cams pulleys will hit the nose. So if an mt75 can be made a lot shorter that
may be an option.
Picked up a 96 2l zetec with 120k on it. $290 bux. Pretty cheap but no idea of condition so always a gamble. The car I ripped it out of wasn't
crashed and looked in pretty good condition so that's bit of a worry. Probably blower head gasket or something. Any way of testing that without
running it?
[Edited on 22/3/14 by kiwibrisa]
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kiwibrisa
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| posted on 22/3/14 at 08:20 AM |
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There's a 1.6l escort manual zetec at the wreckers. Will the sump, flywheel and clutch fit for what I want to do or do I need a 1.8?
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 22/3/14 at 09:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kiwibrisa
There's a 1.6l escort manual zetec at the wreckers. Will the sump, flywheel and clutch fit for what I want to do or do I need a 1.8?
Only know one person who fitted a 1.6 in a Seven. It replaced his 1.7 x-flow and he needed to stay below 1.7 to stay in the up to 1700 cc class at
sprints.
The x-flow was old and basically worn out but still capable of putting up a decent time, supposedly about 130 bhp at the time. The kit he bought to
spark it etc was form a well known supplier in Stowmarket and was rated at approx 125 bhp on healthy motor which it was. He was totally underwhelmed,
engine would not rev and the despite the power being within a snippet of the claimed (and his old x-flow on the same rollers) his times were poor.
So he spent another bundle of cash upgrading it using a kit from the same supplier, cost more than the original install cost and despite the power
going up (nowhere near as much as was claimed) his times were little better and it still wouldn't rev.
So he gave up and fitted a 2 litre. At least the upgrade kit fitted the 2 litre (think a few mods were needed but its over 10 years ago) and he got
good bhp figures and his times were in truth quite good but he was not competitive in a class he had no real wish to be in against 250 plus bhp
monsters.
So for him the 1.6 was a total waste of time, but then again so was the 2 litre. He eventually sold the lot and fitted another x-flow, a good one and
was happy.
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turnipfarmer
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 12:09 PM |
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A bit left field this one, but...
Is there anyone near you who imports things from the UK in containers?
If so, could you maybe beg or rent a bit of space in one, & source what you need from over here, where supply is plentiful?
Prices may be better, too. eg a new 2.0 Zetec blacktop here goes for about 1600 NZD.
Just a thought.
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Furyous
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| posted on 24/3/14 at 07:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by turnipfarmer
A bit left field this one, but...
Is there anyone near you who imports things from the UK in containers?
If so, could you maybe beg or rent a bit of space in one, & source what you need from over here, where supply is plentiful?
Prices may be better, too. eg a new 2.0 Zetec blacktop here goes for about 1600 NZD.
Just a thought.
I may have family bringing a container over later in the year. No guarantees yet and it won't be for about 6 months.
My dad regularly flies back and forth from UK to NZ so his luggage is usually loaded up with car parts.
[Edited on 24/3/14 by Furyous]
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kiwibrisa
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 07:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Furyous
quote:
Originally posted by turnipfarmer
A bit left field this one, but...
Is there anyone near you who imports things from the UK in containers?
If so, could you maybe beg or rent a bit of space in one, & source what you need from over here, where supply is plentiful?
Prices may be better, too. eg a new 2.0 Zetec blacktop here goes for about 1600 NZD.
Just a thought.
I may have family bringing a container over later in the year. No guarantees yet and it won't be for about 6 months.
My dad regularly flies back and forth from UK to NZ so his luggage is usually loaded up with car parts.
[Edited on 24/3/14 by Furyous]
Oh yeah. 'Carry on Zetec' you reckon?
I had looked into new crate engines and they are ridiculously cheap. I think for now I will stick with the second hand engine and get it setup in the
car. Then in the future it shouldn't be a big deal to change it.
Im now looking for the flywheel clutch side of things. Is the only option (for a reasonable price) a 1.8 escort?
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turnipfarmer
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 01:00 PM |
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Carry-on Zetec?
Well no - obviously - that would be plain silly.
He couldn't possibly carry just the engine. He'd be out of balance. He'd have the gearbox in the other hand - naturally!
Do watch out on the cost side of things, though.
As you say, crate blacktops are cheap enough, just about as bulletproof as you can get, and everything is brand new, whereas if you start off with a
high mileage used silvertop it could all be totally different.
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