mazie
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| posted on 20/1/16 at 04:46 PM |
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WANTED: Fabrication of fury upright
Afternoon all.
I need a rear upright on my IRS fury re-made due to damage which has bent it beyond repair, there are also some basic design improvements I want to
implement.
This isn't your normally rear upright, it uses the golf mk2 front strut sitting on top and a single long wishbone for location. Pictures will
explain all!
I would do this at home but simply don't have any time to spare right now.
I have some of the original drawings ( Steve at fury can only find the front and rear faces) these have most of the measurements, the others will
have to be taken from the good remaining upright.
I've tried various engineering firms near my business and no one is interested. Not enough money in it for the hassle I bet.
I'm willing to pay an honest fee and not just beer tokens :-)
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welderman
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| posted on 20/1/16 at 05:55 PM |
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I'll have a look if you want
Thank's, Joe 
I don't stalk people
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/23/viewthread.php?tid=172301
Back on with the Fisher Fury R1
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 20/1/16 at 11:17 PM |
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I have the same IRS fury. Where about a are you? You're welcome to take measurements if you want.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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mazie
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 12:15 AM |
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furyrebuild -- thanks for offer , im in Coventry but I wont need to take the measurements as the nearside upright is in fine form. Seems like very few
Chapman strut type fury's are around, unless you know of more?
Have you replaced the rear shocks? I have spoken with GAZ who will custom make some replacements with suitable valves but at an eye watering £250 each
and then plus the VAT and springs!
Joe, glad of the offer . Ill U2U you with my details and how you want to work this. Thankyou.
Below Pictures of the good upright and the drawing from Steve at Fury
 
Description
 
Description
 
Description
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 07:43 AM |
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I am on gas shocks and springs myself. I got them from a company called Cornering Force, and they could probably order you the same ones that he got
for me. Simon who runs it is an excellent guy, really friendly, and did a lot of custom suspension work on my fury so he knows how they tick.What kind
of modifications were you thinking of for your rear hubs? My car is in bits while I make extensive mods to it and I've not thought about
attacking the hubs at the back.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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HowardB
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 08:02 AM |
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looks the same as mine,...
 
Description
 
Description
I had thought of moving to discs at the back, but a rewire is first.
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again  and goes zoom)
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mazie
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 09:00 AM |
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Ill send Simon a message at cornering force, this is the place up in Harrogate?
Don't suppose you'd like to tell me what you paid for your rear uprights? are they straight swaps or do they need mods?
I always thought these were missing some gussets or extra bracing at the top , two options below. I span and the wheel went side onto the kerb which
buckled the upright quite easily.
 
Description
 
Description
The 2nd picture would be a triangular gusset and not just two skinny braces 
Howard, don't see the point is discs at the rear yet, drums are effective and can lock up if the bias is set so.
Any major reason you wanted to convert? looks difficult due to the width of the upright .
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Ugg10
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 09:20 AM |
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Good to see the Fury is still being used in anger and for what it was (nearly) designed for :-)
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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mazie
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 09:46 AM |
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Hello Ugg! how are you?
Yeah well it hasn't been used for some time really, 2nd child , new house blah blah blah ( normal kind of excuses) have stopped me getting it
out.
I've decided to now trailer it to trackdays rather than put it back on the road for now. Never pleasant getting the car moved outside the
circuit so it can be taken home by the RAC
Hows the 105e coming along?
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 10:24 AM |
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Yes, Cornering Force, Harrogate. Mention me (Mark Prince) and Simon will know what you're on about. He corner-weighted my car and supplied Gaz
shocks and springs for me. He also fabricated a set of anti-roll-bars for me, so I think my spring rates will be different to yours. However, he can
calculate rates for you assuming your corner weights were similar to mine.
Simons a friend, and he has an enthusiastic and amazing knowledge of chassis dynamics and competition car suspension.
quote:
Originally posted by mazie
furyrebuild -- thanks for offer , im in Coventry but I wont need to take the measurements as the nearside upright is in fine form. Seems like very few
Chapman strut type fury's are around, unless you know of more?
Have you replaced the rear shocks? I have spoken with GAZ who will custom make some replacements with suitable valves but at an eye watering £250 each
and then plus the VAT and springs!
Joe, glad of the offer . Ill U2U you with my details and how you want to work this. Thankyou.
Below Pictures of the good upright and the drawing from Steve at Fury
Description
Description
Description
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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Ugg10
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 11:48 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mazie
Hello Ugg! how are you?
Yeah well it hasn't been used for some time really, 2nd child , new house blah blah blah ( normal kind of excuses) have stopped me getting it
out.
I've decided to now trailer it to trackdays rather than put it back on the road for now. Never pleasant getting the car moved outside the
circuit so it can be taken home by the RAC
Hows the 105e coming along?
Don't you just hate it when life get in the way of playtime !!!
Anglia is coming on, got the engine started last week (Puma 1.7 on TBs!), only ran for a short while as it has no coolant in it but big step forward,
hope to have it on the road by the summer.
All the best.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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HowardB
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 01:06 PM |
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I was looking at the back axle and thinking about a complete overhaul, the brakes are more than satisfactory, but I have the "impossible to
get" CV joints and so I was thinking of changing the diff, drive shafts, carriers and brakes all at the same time. I even toyed with the idea of
a complete MX5 back end but Adi reminded me that it would require further changes.
For this year at least it will stay as it is, maybe if I can get a plug and play solution designed and built then I'll do the swap, otherwise it
wont happen.
Are you running the same push in CV joints as I am?
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 03:44 PM |
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I'm on cosworth drive shafts and a quaife LSD. I too bent a hub in a big off. If I was to remake them I'd use t45 steel (or whatever the
flat sheet equivalent is). Lighter and stronger.
Now you've got me thinking. I might put the design through cad to see the weight saving. It would lend itself well to composites with hard
points as well. Hmmm
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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mazie
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 08:48 PM |
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Howard, yes same rear end setup as you. No issues really with the drive shafts , until they wear and I have to replace them, or worse still break
something then i will change out for bolt on shafts and diff.
Furyrebuild ( whats ya name :-) sounds silly calling you that ) Now if you were to think about making some lighter stronger units im sure you may
have a few extra buys here! although with the extra bracing to support the top section id be happy with them, i could find easier weight saving
elsewhere!
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 21/1/16 at 11:01 PM |
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You're right. That's weird. My name is Mark.
I could see a group build of lighter hubs. The design is simple (in a good way, simple isn't easy) and all of the parts could be laser cut.
There's probably 1kg to be had in the hub. It's Unsprung mass as well. The guys from Siltech racing reckon 10kg can be worth 0.4s at good
wood for a consistent driver.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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HowardB
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 06:56 AM |
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if they are being redesigned is there any benefit in changing the shock mounting at the same time? Would that open up a wider range of shocks that
could be deployed?
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 08:05 AM |
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That's a good point. There must be plenty of McPherson strut setups that Gaz do make right now that could be used. The mountings can be
specified so the top mount may hopefully be reused. I will check.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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mazie
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 08:53 AM |
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A Kilo would be a real nice saving in un-sprung weight.
My biggest bug bare is whenever the strut is removed or slackened it wipes out the camber setup, I do mark them as closely as i can and I can try and
dial in again afterwards but without the right tools its hard to get them spot on.
I've talked over converting to a double wishbone setup with Mark at fury before but this would involve a lot of re-engineering, he also reckons
this strut type setup was excellent but too costly to manufacturer and one of the reasons why they scraped it.
Mark would be great if we thought of a lightweight, stronger version .
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 12:09 PM |
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I remember Mark telling me about this as well - they are the best for geometry. One method I'm going to use when I remake the front rockers
(again out of t45, and lighter and stronger) is to use a triumph spitfire/jaguar top ball joint. It is cross-bolted so can slide forwards and
backwards in a slot and therefor makes for easy camber adjustment. In order to make a repeatable position for it, I'm going to add an extra hole
ahead and behind of the locating holes for the ball-joint and make a cam lobe that is secured in the hole. So, wherever is right for the ball-joint is
where I then set the cam lobe and lock it. Then if it ever comes out it can go back in exactly the same place just by being up against the cam
lobe.
At the rear I changed mine quite a bit after I stuffed it at Harewood (span into the barrier at 80 - caused a lot of mess that day). The lower
wishbone bent quite a lot and the hub also took a twist. I always felt the lower wishbone was a weak spot - when you accelerate hard, there's a
rotational force twisting the wishbone through the axis it pivots on, so the wheel gets to move about. With the help of a friend/mentor, we changed it
to be two lower arms (made like a turnbuckle) and a trailing arm (pivoting just near where the harness mounting point is under your right elbow if
you're the driver.
This had many benefits:
- Very easy to adjust the suspension - you just slacken the nuts and twist. It went from nearly a full day setup to a 2 hour setup
- by a lot of coincidence and a little design, all three links per side were the same length so replacements were quick and easy
- the rear became unstickable because the rear-to-front forces were being put through the chassis, rather than twisting the wishbone
- I could adjust out the twist in the hub I knackered
- If you're on bushes, it's the opportunity to get onto spherical bearings
- the rear of my car was 12mm bolts through 1/2" bushes, which was very nasty, and Mark was quite unapologetic about that. I could then get
everything up to 1/2"
- I found I didn't need to repeatedly spanner-check the rear of the car
If I was to remake the hubs, I would potentially only add strength if I could with gussets - there's some benefit in having the hubs deform
under impact. if the hub doesn't deform, the wishbone or links are going to transfer the load into the diff carrier and diff casing I expect.
I'd sooner replace a hub than a diff. For me, I'd go for thinner wall steel made in the T45 alloy (I know, it's a different spec
name for sheet rather than tube) to get the same strength for less weight.
Custom cages are stating that T45 is 2/3 stronger in tensile strength and the maximum yield strength is twice that for CDS. Again, this is tubes, but
some of it will translate to sheet. For me, I'd go thinner for the same strength.
I'm potentially up for making a few of these if I can get enough people on board. The costs for steel supply would be better (we would never hit
bulk discounts, but would save on the courier) but we would save on laser cutting costs - especially if we supplied the material. Final cost is the
argon and filler-rod. A32 rod is about twice the price of mild steel (at £100/5kg) and at a totally rough guess, I reckon half a bottle of gas, which
would come in at £45. The good thing is T45 doesn't need back purging and unlike 4130, doesn't need heat reliefing afterwards. Their
simple design means not a lot of jigging would be necessary, and I have plenty of square tube that can be quickly tacked into a jig.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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HowardB
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 12:24 PM |
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I am very interested in this and the suspension arm modifications that you have made.
I would ideally like to do the whole lot in one go from a kit of parts, perhaps we can get a few people together and do them all together.
Have you thought about mentioning it on the JPSC website?
Was this design used on any of his other cars?
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 02:24 PM |
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Hi Howard
Putting together 6 adjustable arms for the kit would be fine. I'd be happy to weld them up as well. The only bit of home-grown work/welding that
would be required would be to drill through the receiving hole where the trailing arm needs to be, weld a tube in and a sort of hat thing so the
1/2" bolt is not loaded in single shear.
I think this could be simplified a little if people were concerned about welding, and the whole receiving arrangement could be made as a bolt on part.
4 through bolts, one at each corner, and if you bonded it as well with an epoxy adhesive it wouldn't be going anywhere and you wouldn't be
welding. Your powder coat would then also survive in this area. The hub also needs a bracket welding on to it to take the trailing arm.
There is the head of a 1/2 bolt intruding into the passenger compartment, but it's down by your right cheek, so you don't knock against
it.
I haven't posted this in the JPSC site - it's only came about as well all think on it today.
Thoughts?
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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HowardB
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 03:39 PM |
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Mark,
it sounds interesting, I don't have any real qualms about welding, and would probably get it "done" what powder coating that is left
is in a poor state.
As a composites engineer, I like the idea of adhesives and spent some time at BAE gluing aircraft together! :0
Are you a member on JPSC?
On the time frame side of things I would like to get the bits and line this up for winter 16 work.
thanks again, this is very interesting
Howard
Fisher Fury was 2000 Zetec - now a 1600 (it Lives again and goes zoom)
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FuryRebuild
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 04:46 PM |
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Hi Howard
Take a look at this - I'm making a fully composite tub for my car, which will be
bonded in.
So far, the mould is complete. I've also made the odd panel as practice parts, and a
composite passenger footwell which is utterly rock solid. The footwell allows the passenger
to tilt their feet forward, so much more comfy and I went to town on the layup so it's really tough. There's two layers of 300gsm aramid
in there as well for impact protection.
Everything is resin-infusion.
When all you have is a hammer, everything around you is a nail.
www.furyrebuild.co.uk
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mazie
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 09:43 PM |
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Mark, very interesting stuff, really got me thinking and great that you've done a lot so far. I'll have a butchers through your archive
is there are any pics of the mods I there, if not any chance of a few?
I'll have time free at the end of the year to start doing the same myself.
Howard & Mark did you both have steel floors and rear bulk heads? If so what have you done to replace the bracing, om trying to think of ways to
reduce weight whilst keeping the lardy windscreen.
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Ugg10
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| posted on 22/1/16 at 10:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
Hi Howard
Take a look at this - I'm making a fully composite tub for my car, which will be
bonded in.
So far, the mould is complete. I've also made the odd panel as practice parts, and a
composite passenger footwell which is utterly rock solid. The footwell allows the passenger
to tilt their feet forward, so much more comfy and I went to town on the layup so it's really tough. There's two layers of 300gsm aramid
in there as well for impact protection.
Everything is resin-infusion.
Interesting, IIRC about 15 years ago a company called Sculptural Engineering started to make a full composite sandwich monocoque chassis for a seven
style car, they also built the larini/gtm ballista elise lookalike car.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1968 Ford Anglia 105e, 1.7 Zetec SE, Mk2 Escort Workd Cup front end, 5 link rear
Build Blog - http://Anglia1968.weebly.com
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