iceT
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 posted on 17/7/03 at 08:56 AM |
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FWD vs RWD
Hi All,
This may sound liek a silly question...
In my previous post, I did ask if anyone familiar with Jap donor parts as where I come from, it's tough to find Ford donor parts.
Now, silly as silly can be... can one use the uprights and hub assembly from a FWD for the Locost, simply by swapping the front to the back and vice
versa?
I ask this because most Jap cars here are FWD. Would appreciate any comments and help as I am almost going nuts figuring out what donor parts to use.
This way, I can short list, to target only RWD cars then.
(now I know why there isn't anyone into building Locost from where I come from! Sourcing for parts is a real killer, needless to say, having to
deal with a bunch of unfriendly welders... but I am rather determined to get this going!!)
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timf
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| posted on 17/7/03 at 09:17 AM |
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in a previous post ( that has dissapeared)
i asked if you have mazda rx7's over there
as they are RWD and will provide all the running gear you need
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iceT
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| posted on 17/7/03 at 10:11 AM |
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Hi Timf,
Yeah! we do have Mazda RX7 here. Will check that out. Any specific year?
In this case, are you saying, any RWD cars, I can 'butcher' them for the running gears?
Thanks mate!
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timf
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| posted on 17/7/03 at 10:21 AM |
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not any rwd car
it just so happens that the rx7 has double wishbone front suspension and is rwd the early ones are solid axle and the latter ones irs.
also the second generation toyota supra fits the bill quite nicely.
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GO
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| posted on 17/7/03 at 10:25 AM |
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iceT,
Any year will do RX-7, but there are differences between the various generations.
The 1st gens are live axle, 2nd gens are IRS and more powerful. You also get turbo versions ( ) from 2nd gen onwards.
Check out this site, useful info on the various models...
I'm using a 160bhp 13B from a 2nd gen, unfortunately I'm not using any of the rest of the RX-7, there wasn't much left of it when I
found it!!
Best of luck!
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iceT
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| posted on 17/7/03 at 10:29 AM |
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Aha! suddenly there's light at the end of the tunnel...
Anymore? Nissan? Honda? Anyone??
On that note, anyone knows any website(s) that I can check for such info? To find out which car manufacturer does RWD, double wishbone etc... old and
new?
Thanks again, timf!
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iceT
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| posted on 17/7/03 at 10:56 AM |
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Hi GO,
Thanks for the info! I am looking at using R1 as my engine and all the other parts (ie. Hub, upright, rack, propshaft etc) from butchered parts.
Anyway, I think you left out the URL for the website.
Thanks!
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timf
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| posted on 17/7/03 at 11:09 AM |
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IceT go didnt forget its embedded hover over the line that says click here and it gets hyperlinked else here is the website
http://www.rx7-uk.co.uk/rx7stat.htm
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iceT
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| posted on 18/7/03 at 06:56 AM |
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I see... hmm, it's like magic! 
Silly me!
Thanks timf and GO!
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kiwirex
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| posted on 19/7/03 at 08:49 AM |
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IceT
> Anymore? Nissan? Honda? Anyone??
Toyota's rwd celica also (pre '80 ish).
Nissan still do a skyline and a sylvia.
Many vans (believe it) would work. Most are rwd (not the fiats), and as you're chucking the body and just using the drive stuff it all works.
Read toyota hiace, ford econovan, those sorts of things.
Many of these use mcPherson struts, but the sierra does too and many are using that.
Good luck.
- Greg H
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carnut1100
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| posted on 19/7/03 at 12:20 PM |
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Has anyone made one with Renault/Saab front drive layout? It would be interesting.
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Sideways 2 Victory
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| posted on 22/7/03 at 07:42 PM |
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Indeed!
Some of those older Saab Turbo engines like the 234R put out 225bhp. 
Just hope you like torque steer and wheelspinnage.
ATB
Dave
www.nurburgring.org
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mranlet
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| posted on 30/7/03 at 01:31 PM |
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RWD donor list
Having a FWD engine would throw off the weight balance quite a bit and therefore be quite detremental to your handling. If you could get the balance
back somehow, FWD would be cool - I like the feel of FWD cars despite their disatvantage to RWD and AWD cars...
IceT:
Depending on what is available in your area, you could use the following for RWD:
Mazda RX-7 - as mentioned before, last 2 generations have semi-trailing arm rear suspension, but only the FD's (last generation) have
independent front suspension, with struts being used prior to this
Mazda Cosmo - not available here in the US, but I believe the same layout as the RX's
Mazda Eunos/Miata/MX-5 – Known as the Miata or Miata MX-5 in the US, the 4-cylinder produces around 100 or 120 in stock trim but can be inexpensively
tuned to 200 or even 300 turbocharged hp. The small size of this car means that you may not have to section the drive/propshaft also. These cars
have had double wishbone suspension in front since their inception and also are armed with IRS. They have been a favorite of many SCCA racers due to
their British mentality towards racing (Triumph Spitfire, MG Midget, Autsin Sprite, etc). If you were in a pinch, a good condition first generation
can be bought for around $1500 in road-registered order. Personally, I think this would be one of your top choices.
Toyota Celica - I believe that the pre-87 Celicas all had 4 cylinder RWD, with only the 87 generation having (don't quote me on this) IRS. I
don't know of any non-strut suspensions being equipped to these cars either, but that may have only been US-market getting the shaft. The AE86
has become a classic when it comes to small displacement and large power.
Toyota Supra - all gens have RWD and 6-cylinder as far as I know, with the final 2 or 3 generations having IRS, the 7MGTE from the 7th Generation will
give you 350 reliable HP once the head gasket has been replaced with a brass one, and the 1JZ and 2JZ-GTE from the latest generation will deliver up
to 750 streetable HP if you can apply it
Toyota Cresida, Altezea (sp?), Soarer, Chaser - Not too sure about these cars, as none were ever available in the US, but I believe that the Altezea
and Chaser have the same JZ motor from the Supra and double wishbones all around. These were both somewhat luxury cars (the Altezea being sold as the
Lexus IS300 in the states) and a lot of fun interior trinkets can probably be salvaged.
Nissan 180sx, 200sx, Silvia, 240sx – Known only as the 240sx in the US (due to the 2.4L truck engine) this has become a favorite for drifting and
inexpensive racing because of its superb weight distribution and 4-wheel independent suspension (with control arms front and rear). The 180’s 1.8L
can be tuned inexpensively up to 350 hp, and tops out around 450 with plenty of cash. The SR20DET from the 200sx and Silvia (from what I understand)
is a legend… With an underrated 200hp in stock trim for the “red-top”, this motor will easily reach 350hp and will top out around 500hp. I THINK
that this motor appeared in the S-13 Silvias, and perhaps subsequent 200sx’s. The black-top that can be found in S-15’s generates around 240hp and
can be maxed out at 550hp or so. These motors are incredibly reliable when tuned correctly and will probably be the best choice for a Locost-style
car with their relatively light weight (for a 2L) and large power.
Pulsar GTi-R – Equipped with a transverse-mounted AWD motor, this car also comes with 4-wheel control arm suspension and produces the same 200 to
500hp range as the Silvia/200sx. Transverse engine will mean that more work will go into the design of the frame and getting the weight to balance
front to rear, but could allow more cabin or trunk space. I am considering using either this system or the Mitsubishi Lancer/Eclipse’s 4G63T with AWD
for a hatchback/pickup build that I will be doing sometime in the enar future…
Nissan Skyline – as far as I’m concerned the mother of all engines. Drivelines and layouts get a bit complicated, so I’ll break it down:
GT-R – R32, R33, R34 all use the RB26DETT 2.6L Twin Turbo beast with ATESSA AWD. This means a lager engine and extensive reworking of the engine bay
and transmission tunnel, but power ratings ranging from 320hp stock (Nissan lists them as 280, which is the legal limit for cars in Japan) to 750 or
800 on pump gas and 1100hp on race fuel. The stock turbo system can generate 600hp with no modifications to the internals. This also includes
multi-link front and rear suspension that could easily be adapted to wishbone setups. Beware of cost on these though: to get the AWD system to work
properly there are 3 sensors that are needed (including one in the trunk) for the brain to understand where torque needs to be applied.
GTS25T – Home of the RB25DET, 2.5L single-turbo motor. Identical in size to the RB26, but with one less turbo it fits into the engine bay with a
little less messing around. Again with 4-wheel multi-link, this version has RWD only, which can make application of the 250-800hp quite tricky. This
version can produce 500hp with the stock turbo at 20psi.
Other trims – These include the 2-litre RB20DET with RWD and AWD. Again, with multi-link suspension the only hurdles will be getting it to fit and
getting the appropiate computer bits for AWD.
Nissan/Datsun Z-cars – All Z-cars have been equipped with IRS and double wishbone fronts. Motors are generally reflected in the name of the car (240z
is 2.4L, 300ZX is 3.0L) but somewhere around the change from 280z to 300ZX (with 280ZX coming about somewhere in there) the layout went from I-6 to
V-6. The VG30DET and DETT’s found in 300ZX’s produce the same 280hp as the RB26DETT, and top out around 800hp. The same can be said for these motors
as was mentioned about the RB’s concerning fit. You can probably find a VG series for less than an RB, and would certainly be able to find a 2.8L
(the preference for many kit-car builders), given that they were produced where you live.
Datsun 510 – Often the lovechild of a Mazda rotary or SR20DET, 510’s are often stripped of their stock 4-cylinders, leaving you, the voracious young
builder, the opportunity to snatch one up for cheap. The 510 itself was equipped with a solid rear axle and strut suspension from what I’ve heard,
but having never seen one I may not know what I’m talking about…
Ford Escort – Don’t let me bore you…
Ford Mustang – Includes many different layouts from 4cylinder to hefty V-8, most all with manual transmissions available. Not too sure about
suspension setups, but MustangSix is building a Locost with an I-6, so he may be the man to talk to.
Mitsubishi Starion – Once again, not too sure about availability, but these house 4-cylinder RWD turbo motors producing 180 or 200hp (I think) and can
be tuned to exceed 350hp without much help from aftermarket retailers (i.e. fabrication is necessary)
Many other 70’s cars came with RWD 4’s through V-8’s in just about every combination imaginable. For best results, stick to Falcon XA and Dodge Dart
style cars.
Mazda, Toyota, Ford, Chevy, Mitsubishi, etc Mini trucks (S-10, Ranger, B-series) - Most of these were equipped with many different options with the
majority on the road hosting 4-cylinder manuals with solid rear axles that could be adapted to suit the book's rear suspension setup. No
double-wishbone suspension on these guys as far as I know. Another thing to keep in mind is that they are not quite as rev-happy as many of the car
motors, designed more for torque than acceleration, but V-6's are available.
Something else to think about: You COULD get any old car regardless of layout and use as many parts as you can from it. Even a car with no engine
will supple a good steering system, wheels, lights, many electrics (made easier if the car is of the same manufacturer as the engine that is destined
for your vehicle) drive/prop shaft, differential, brakes, and so forth. In particular Nissan has gone to great lengths to ensure that the engine
mounts are the same for all of their RWD cars. I am planning to use a Nissan RWD pickup and engine in order to get my car running and ultimately swap
in an SR20DET, RB26DET or RB26DET. I am designing my frame to accommodate the RB26, which will be quite rooms for the dinky 4-cylinder that will
occupy the engine bay in the meantime. There are also many importers and vendors of Japan-spec engines and clips (the front half of the car with
engine, often including wiring looms, steering, spindles, suspension parts, radiator and so on). Due to emissions restrictions in Japan, cars must me
inspected and rebuilt every 30,000 miles. Cars that do not pass, but are still good enough for other countries, are exported. A front clip for an
SR20DET, for example, may cost you $2000 but you are getting an engine that has very low miles on it and is essentially coming to you the same as a
donor car would. If you are interested in this option, check out www.jspecauto.com www.flashoptions.com or do a google search for “JDM engines”. If
they don’t import into your country, I’m sure that they could direct you to somewhere that does. Flashoptions also has free shipping on select clips
and motors…
If I think of any more cars that would be good donors I’ll come back and edit this post.
I hope this helps in your search, and good luck on your build!
-MR
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gjn200
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| posted on 30/7/03 at 05:43 PM |
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quote:
Nissan 180sx, 200sx, Silvia, 240sx – Known only as the 240sx in the US (due to the 2.4L truck engine) this has become a favorite for drifting and
inexpensive racing because of its superb weight distribution and 4-wheel independent suspension (with control arms front and rear). The 180’s 1.8L
can be tuned inexpensively up to 350 hp, and tops out around 450 with plenty of cash.
You know it makes sense
<- Me!
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JoelP
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| posted on 30/7/03 at 08:42 PM |
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Damn it, i had a 200sx with a knackered turbo, sold it for 235 at an auction. drove mint anyway, could've stuck a big blower on it....
why do i never realise things in time...?
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mrmotorhead13
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| posted on 5/8/03 at 05:11 PM |
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quote:
Nissan/Datsun Z-cars – All Z-cars have been equipped with IRS and double wishbone fronts. Motors are generally reflected in the name of the car (240z
is 2.4L, 300ZX is 3.0L) but somewhere around the change from 280z to 300ZX (with 280ZX coming about somewhere in there) the layout went from I-6 to
V-6.
Z cars up through at least the 280ZX and I believe the first gen 300ZX are strut front, not double a-arm. The first gen 300ZX is also where they
switched to the V6 from the I6. As for 510's the early ones (69 to about 74-75) are RWD with an IRS very similar to a BMW 2002 which they were
basically a clone of. The later 510's (in the US, no idea what they might be called ROW), were FWD.
Bill J
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carcentric
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 05:12 AM |
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How 'bout . . .
A Rover 3500 sedan/saloon?
M D "Doc" Nugent
http://www.carcentric.com
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mranlet
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| posted on 8/8/03 at 07:15 PM |
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I'd be interested to try the 4G63 with AWD and transverse mount. I think having FWD would kind of undermine the purpose of building a
"sports" car. You surely wouldn't be able to use the book frame or even make it look like a seven...
-MR
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