StevieB
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 06:09 PM |
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Thinking about going Kart racing...
And after any advice from anybody already involved.
My main concern is whether it'd be even worth my while my while turning up - my initial impression is that I'd get tonked by 5 stone
midgets.
But, having looked into it, the minnimum weights would probably mean I'd perhaps be adding a little ballast to make the grade, which gives me a
little hope.
The classes I'd be looking at would be TKM Extreme or Honda Twin Engine (Prokart?) - I think Rotax is a couple of seasons down the road for
now.
From the looks of things, I could get a kart for about £500 and a seasons racing for something like £1000 including for entry fees, fuel, tyres, a bit
of damage maybe (£75 per event for 10 events plus a few practice sessions).
I want to get into a bit of motorsport but it's expensive. I figured I could do a few years of karting on a budget and then go to Rotax or
maybe have a crack at FF1600 ir Caterham Academy - basically follow the traditional routes of most racers, but about 15 years too late, with a bigger
belly and better appreciation for girls/beer 
ETA
This is all spurred on by the fact I'll be selling the Indy soon due to wife's redundancy/my own business being a bit slow. So,
it's a sort of scaling down my interests while still having a hand in dabbling with all things mchanical/fast/on track. Plus, I like the idea
of actually having space in my garage to work on things nicely!
[Edited on 21/12/09 by StevieB]
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fesycresy
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 06:12 PM |
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Have you had a look at the Rotax Max class ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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EasyJimbo
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 06:36 PM |
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You might want to look at Easykart and also club 100, google both. Club 100 might be a good start as you hire the kart and then you can see if you
like it and can then move up and buy your own if you get on ok.
J
be gentle I am new to all this :-)
blog: http://mkjimbo-mkindybuild.blogspot.com/
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Sebastian
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 06:40 PM |
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All i can say is just do it, i also had a 125cc Prokart (automatic) and it's really addictive and you really learn a lot about braking and
cornering.
The problem you are going to encouter is that the mind want's to keep going but your body doesn't agree with it, at least that happend
with me.
Like i said just go for it.
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will121
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 07:03 PM |
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i done 5 years karting 250E gearbox class 15years ago and been thinking of having another go as suprised how cheep karts seem now, if looking at doing
competatively worth having a trip to local tracks and see what classes are raced and some do hire drive which may be a way to test classes, with
minimum weights that shouldnt be a issue but dont be supprised with some whipper snappers beating you!! im still stuck on gearbox classes as seem more
like driver involvement, but wont be any quicker that a direct drive on a short circuit as less tracks race them, but if you go the gearbox route can
always do long circuit racing with laps faster than most things!!
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locostbuyer83
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 07:03 PM |
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i'd start with a pro kart as its a lot cheaper, no need to buy a new set of tyres every 2 meetings. If you need any more info u2u me as i have a
few contacts.
cheers
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phoenix70
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 07:05 PM |
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I think you are underestimating your budget. To be competitive you are going to have to spend more that £500 on a chassis, and your annual running
cost will be a lot more than £1000. Consider this, you will probably need at least 1 set of tyres per event that will cost you approx £125, if you
have a mixed day (i.e. wet and dry) that will be two sets. Your entry fee will be aroind £50 an event)
Don't want to be a kill joy but it really is a lot more expensive than it seems.
I used to race prokarts and did think about getting back into it, but after a visit to my local track I found out instead of using the standard GX160
that cost about £250 brand new, they have all started using tuned motors that cost from £400 to £800 (and you need two of them)
I was seriously looking to get back into to it, but it seems that money has spoiled my old hobby, as it usually does.
Cheers
Scott
[Edited on 21/12/09 by phoenix70]
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StevieB
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 08:00 PM |
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M budget is based on TKM extreme at one of my local clubs (ok, Sunderland, but not really all that far away).
In that class you're limited to 2 sets of slicks per season (and it's a control tyre), plus wets as required, so tyre costs not too bad.
There's a few tkm extreme karts for sale at the moment for under £500 including spares - might not be the best, but will be a start (plus
there's nothing worse than being the 'all the gear, no idea' screwby!).
Entry fees are £35 per race.
They also have a pro-kart class that's restricted to the gx160 engines.
With karts for both classes being a similar cost, it sounds like the gx160's will be considerably cheaper to replace/have a spare than the tkm
motor. There's no restriction on how many sets of tyres for pro-kart, but I'm not sure how quick I'd get through them in
pro-kart.
The aim isn't to be competetive right away - just to have a go for a season or so then start to get competetive thereafter.
[Edited on 21/12/09 by StevieB]
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Richard Jenkins
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 08:15 PM |
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Club 100 is a great series, I did this before moving to Locosts. It's arrive & drive so nothing to worry about apart from learning your
racecraft. They run different weight classes (<80kg, >85kg & >90kg) so ample folks (like me.. ) have a chance to be competitive. And
IMHO the 100cc 2-stroke karts are far more fun than pro-karts.
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matt.c
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| posted on 21/12/09 at 09:33 PM |
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Really depends on which you like? 2 stroke or 4 stroke? I love the high reving 2 stroke engines and dont like racing lawnmower engines.
But................
Big problem i found after i bought my Tony Kart rotax Max was you are very limited where you can use it if you are on a small budget. Plenty of the
pro tracks allow but you will pay a price for this. If you are just going to race for a bit of fun then look for a local airfield kart club and you
will find this alot cheaper.
I might end up going 4 stroke just to be able to use it on smaller local arrive and drive tracks. Really hard to swallow tho..
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phoenix70
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| posted on 22/12/09 at 11:53 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
M budget is based on TKM extreme at one of my local clubs (ok, Sunderland, but not really all that far away).
In that class you're limited to 2 sets of slicks per season (and it's a control tyre), plus wets as required, so tyre costs not too bad.
There's a few tkm extreme karts for sale at the moment for under £500 including spares - might not be the best, but will be a start (plus
there's nothing worse than being the 'all the gear, no idea' screwby!).
Entry fees are £35 per race.
They also have a pro-kart class that's restricted to the gx160 engines.
With karts for both classes being a similar cost, it sounds like the gx160's will be considerably cheaper to replace/have a spare than the tkm
motor. There's no restriction on how many sets of tyres for pro-kart, but I'm not sure how quick I'd get through them in
pro-kart.
The aim isn't to be competetive right away - just to have a go for a season or so then start to get competetive thereafter.
[Edited on 21/12/09 by StevieB]
Interesting to hear the restriction on tyres in the TKM Extreme class, are you sure that not no more that two sets per event?
BTW the Prokart I used to race was restricted to GX160, but that doesn't stop people building better engines. You will probably find most of
the prokarters are running RPM Engines, they are allowed by most regs but I feel they are not in the
spirit of the racing.
Doesn't the TKM need rebuilds quite regularly?
Hope you find a solution that suits, I haven't really been karting for nearly five years, and I still have a yearning to get back into it.
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StevieB
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| posted on 22/12/09 at 01:24 PM |
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It's definately 2 sets per season - you have to leave them in the club store between races as well.
TKM does need a rebuild at least once per season from what I read. I've found a supplier of them who will sell a bare engine for £500 plus VAT,
which would almost make it worth just having a new engine every year rather than the £500 rebuild.
The GX160 tuned version is about £380, and I'm huessing they'd last a lot longer than the TKM. So, as an introduction I think Pro-Kart
might be the way to go and with any luck the kart I buy might already have decent engines on it already. I can progress on to TKM or Rotax at a later
stage if I want!
How long do tyres last on the pro-karts - I don't imagine the top speed is too dissimilar from the TKM (probably a little lower even), and
putting out about half the power, they must be a little more gentle on tyres than the 2 stroke screamers?
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phoenix70
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| posted on 22/12/09 at 01:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
The GX160 tuned version is about £380, and I'm huessing they'd last a lot longer than the TKM. So, as an introduction I think Pro-Kart
might be the way to go and with any luck the kart I buy might already have decent engines on it already. I can progress on to TKM or Rotax at a later
stage if I want!
How long do tyres last on the pro-karts - I don't imagine the top speed is too dissimilar from the TKM (probably a little lower even), and
putting out about half the power, they must be a little more gentle on tyres than the 2 stroke screamers?
All the wear on the tyres is in the corners, and the corner speeds are not too dissimilar (2 stroke are quicker), so depending on the make of tyres
you should be able to get at least 5 - 6 meeting out of as set without losing too much.
I used to do endurance racing with my Prokart so in those terms we used to get 3 meeting out of a set, but that was around 12 hours track time.
BTW - remember that in Prokarts you use TWO engines so thats 2 * £380 = £760 for the engines, but you are right they will last a lot longer that a 2
stroke, you may have to change valve spring and oil pretty regularly but thats about it.
[Edited on 22/12/09 by phoenix70]
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 22/12/09 at 06:24 PM |
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I race TKM Extreme and my engine is being rebuild at the moment, it does not cost £500! I am paying £160 for a complete rebuild (excl ConRod) from a
reputable race engine tuner!
A TKM engine will last around 8-hours easily between rebuilds (and a bit more if it is looked after and not revved stupid) so that should do most
'hobby' karters just fine for a season.
If you are racing once a month then the costs you described should be about OK. I reckon it costs between £70-£100 per meeting including fuel, tyres,
consumables - it depends on how often you race, where you race and whether you're a person that has to buy everything new!
HTH
[Edited on 22/12/09 by Tiger Super Six]
Mark
Tiger Avon
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StevieB
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| posted on 22/12/09 at 06:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiger Super Six
I race TKM Extreme and my engine is being rebuild at the moment, it does not cost £500! I am paying £160 for a complete rebuild (excl ConRod) from a
reputable race engine tuner!
A TKM engine will last around 8-hours easily between rebuilds (and a bit more if it is looked after and not revved stupid) so that should do most
'hobby' karters just fine.
If you are racing once a month then the costs you described should be about OK. I reckon it costs between £70-£100 per meeting including fuel, tyres,
consumables - it depends on how often you race, where you race and whether you're a person that has to buy everything new!
HTH
Definately won't be buying anything new at first - need to keep it cheap.
I will upgrade things over time as/when they need replacing.
It's a tough decision between TKM and Pro-Kart then, as the costs should be similar and and engine rebuild for the stroker isn't too bad
after all.
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 22/12/09 at 06:33 PM |
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TKM all day long, it's a 2 stroke engine that rev's to 16,000 and pulls well out of the corners, you won't get that with a 4 stroke
pro kart.
Much more fun!
Mark
Tiger Avon
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matt.c
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| posted on 22/12/09 at 10:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Tiger Super Six
I race TKM Extreme and my engine is being rebuild at the moment, it does not cost £500! I am paying £160 for a complete rebuild (excl ConRod) from a
reputable race engine tuner!
A TKM engine will last around 8-hours easily between rebuilds (and a bit more if it is looked after and not revved stupid) so that should do most
'hobby' karters just fine for a season.
If you are racing once a month then the costs you described should be about OK. I reckon it costs between £70-£100 per meeting including fuel, tyres,
consumables - it depends on how often you race, where you race and whether you're a person that has to buy everything new!
HTH
[Edited on 22/12/09 by Tiger Super Six]
Who is your engine rebuilder? Im looking for someone that could do my rotax in a few months.
Matt
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 22/12/09 at 10:52 PM |
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I am using Grice racing in Basildon this time but have also used Gary Munroe in Stansted. Both of them can rebuild Rotax motors and are well known so
either are fine depending which is closer to you.
Drop me a u2u if you need anymore info.
Mark
Mark
Tiger Avon
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tomblyth
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| posted on 23/12/09 at 08:10 AM |
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looks like a fast sport!
see link karting link
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Nash
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| posted on 23/12/09 at 02:22 PM |
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I Endurance raced Rotax MAX for 5 years between 2000 and 2005. Did Le Mans 24hr twice and also did it once in Prokart Hire Class. Did Spa 6hr 4 times
and raced in all the UK MAX Endurance Championships. ES2i, Toshiba, GT Challenge, and the Trackside Endurance Series.
Worked out once that in 2003 (our busiest year) with all the races and the testing we put over 500 hours in.
We also managed to get a MAX engine to do 200 hrs between major rebuild! We normally had piston and bearing changes at 50hrs but we left one engine to
see what it would do.
Interesting thread this about which way to go so here is my two peneth worth:
2 stroke is much more demanding on both body and wallet.
Prokart has little in the way of finesse but is both cheaper and easier on the body physically.
Don't forget to add in some testing and general maintenance costs as you will need to do some especially after a wet race!
Unless you cook wet tyres on a drying track they should alst you a whole season. I don't know what the control slick tyre is but to last a
season it will be made of wood! so don't expect high cornering speeds! Although its all relative as whatever you choose to do you WILL enjoy
it!
So my over-riding advice is DO IT! I stopped at the end of the 2005 season and in truth I miss everything about it. I miss the racing, the travelling
all over Europe, the events (do Le Mans you will feel like a real racing driver as there is a crowd AND at the end of the race I defy you to NOT be
emotional). I miss the people and paddock friendship.
It doesn't matter how much you spend, get on the grid and enjoy.
IMHO
......Neil
It's What You Do Next That Counts.
Build It, Buy It, Drive It:
Southern Kit Car Club
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StevieB
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| posted on 23/12/09 at 05:35 PM |
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Control tyres are Maxxis Greens for tkm - there doesn't appear to be any control or restriction on tyre type or quantity in pro-kart.
This is all, of course, based on what my local club runs rather than any national rules. What I would like to keep in mind would be to run something
that can be used both within the club and in any events further affield with little or no change to the kart.
This will keep options open and also add to the resale value IMHO.
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Nash
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| posted on 23/12/09 at 07:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
Control tyres are Maxxis Greens for tkm - there doesn't appear to be any control or restriction on tyre type or quantity in pro-kart.
This is all, of course, based on what my local club runs rather than any national rules. What I would like to keep in mind would be to run something
that can be used both within the club and in any events further affield with little or no change to the kart.
This will keep options open and also add to the resale value IMHO.
runnng in multiple series with the same kart should not be a problem regardless of 2/ or 4/. Tyres may be the only difference.
Check the licensing requirements. A lot of 2/ (rotax MAX) can mean MSA National B licence. Which means an ARKs test and medical.
HTH's ........... Neil
It's What You Do Next That Counts.
Build It, Buy It, Drive It:
Southern Kit Car Club
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 23/12/09 at 10:58 PM |
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TKM do run maxis greens and these are the same for MSA level racing, they then use maxis reds for wets.
One thing to note is that they are changing the greens next year to a different compound, you will still be able to use the old greens but the new
ones are supposed to offer up more grip (They are not on sale until January).
To start with I wouldn't worry about new tyres etc as you need to get used to the kart, the way it accelerates and how it handles.
Once you start to get the most out of that then start investing money in new tyres that will actually offer some benefit to you (you will only need a
couple of meetings or test sessions)
Mark
Tiger Avon
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gixermark
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| posted on 24/12/09 at 11:43 AM |
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karts can be cheap - if you are happy being mid pack... and just making up the grid - but having good craic wheel to wheel.....
IF/When you want to get into the top few... the costs will go up dramatically, and you'd be able to run in a club 'car' racing
series..
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 24/12/09 at 12:02 PM |
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I wouldn't agree, at club level your driving will make up for budgets. The boys that spend the cash can't always drive! It is different
when you get to National level but the original thread was on about fun/hobby karting.
quote:
Originally posted by gixermark
karts can be cheap - if you are happy being mid pack... and just making up the grid - but having good craic wheel to wheel.....
IF/When you want to get into the top few... the costs will go up dramatically, and you'd be able to run in a club 'car' racing
series..
Mark
Tiger Avon
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