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Author: Subject: Austin Seven Special gets a rack and pinion steering
sdh2903

posted on 16/11/19 at 03:01 PM Reply With Quote
Sadly sam maybe you should take your own advice. As usual when you start posting on this forum it always ends up about you.

I just hope that the OP hasn't been put off posting anymore updates for those that are genuinely interested.

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Sam_68

posted on 16/11/19 at 04:25 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Sadly sam maybe you should take your own advice.

I take it that you are unable, or unwilling, to answer the question posed, then?

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sdh2903

posted on 16/11/19 at 04:44 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Sadly sam maybe you should take your own advice.

I take it that you are unable, or unwilling, to answer the question posed, then?


I just donít see the relevance of it? And Iím at the point where I donít want to feed the troll anymore.

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phelpsa

posted on 16/11/19 at 04:44 PM Reply With Quote
At the end of the day there are automotive equivalents of great architectural masterpieces tucked away in museums all over the world. What Alistair is doing is more akin to tarting up an grandmas old wardrobe, its hardly of historical importance...
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rusty nuts

posted on 16/11/19 at 05:05 PM Reply With Quote
Why are people arguing about modifying cars on what is a forum for modified cars ?
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steve m

posted on 16/11/19 at 05:37 PM Reply With Quote
Its the OP car, and he can do what ever he likes, even spray it Lgbt colours, or day glow pink as neither was an option in the 1930's if he wants, even fit 300 mm disk brakes, as the "7" rod brakes were CRAP

As im sure that will also offend some snowflake on here

This thread has turned its ugly head, yet again, because one snowflake has a non qualified objection, to something that has nothing what so ever to do with him, so please just register your opinion, and move on

What was said above, we as a collective on here have done some serious damage to an awful lot of "classic cars" yet I haven't heard to many complain to much

If, and a very big IF, someone was to notice a design flaw, that could result in an injury, then I do believe any comments made would be appreciated,

But I do wonder why the one kicking up ll the stink, is perfectly accepting the Reliant Kitten destruction ??? as I would put money down, that theres an awful lot more Austin 7 around compared to Reliant Kittens (4 wheel variarty)

steve

[Edited on 16/11/19 by steve m]





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




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v8kid

posted on 16/11/19 at 07:42 PM Reply With Quote
Good old Sam I love it when a semi-rant pays dividends.

BTW who the F--- is Ernest Gimson is it a new song by Smokie and more to the point who on a car forum cares?

Cheers





You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a chainsaw

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John Bonnett

posted on 17/11/19 at 09:05 PM Reply With Quote
The Hillman Imp steering rack has the track rod end emerging from the centre rather than the ends as on most steering racks and this makes it ideal for fitting to an Austin Seven. It has been done and fits so unobtrusively behind the number plate it is unlikely to be noticed by most people. In fact had I continued with my plans for the Austin Special that was what I was going to do.






[Edited on 17/11/19 by John Bonnett]

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v8kid

posted on 18/11/19 at 09:12 AM Reply With Quote
Yup we get that but I still think there will be bump steer I guess the question is will the bump steer be less than the original or will the reduction in slop offset this.

It would be really interesting to hear from someone who had done this to give us a before and after narrative

Cheers





You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a chainsaw

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v8kid

posted on 18/11/19 at 09:15 AM Reply With Quote
Btw John what happened to your 7? You say you did not continue with your plans





You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a chainsaw

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John Bonnett

posted on 18/11/19 at 11:01 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by v8kid
Btw John what happened to your 7? You say you did not continue with your plans




I realised that I couldn't fund the project. We all know about the Triumph TR "Tax" where parts are exorbitantly expensive compared with the same parts for Spitfires for example and the same is pretty much true with Austin Sevens. The cost of building a decent engine and gearbox was just too much as well as other parts so I decided to move the bits on that I had accumulated and take on a more modest and affordable project. This is why I have embarked on the Reliant Kitten which I am writing up in the Projects section. It is in early stages yet having started on the chassis repairs but once I have a sound frame I can get on to the interesting bits. My current plans are to build a completely new estate car body in aluminium supported by a steel frame. I am working within the DVLA guidelines using the 8 point rule to retain the donor vehicle identity and avoid IVA.

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Mr Whippy

posted on 18/11/19 at 12:17 PM Reply With Quote
John,

I think your solution with the steering rack is very good and as for bump steer it shouldn't be any worse than the steering box

Car looks great btw



[Edited on 18/11/19 by Mr Whippy]

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John Bonnett

posted on 18/11/19 at 01:37 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
John,

I think your solution with the steering rack is very good and as for bump steer it shouldn't be any worse than the steering box

Car looks great btw



[Edited on 18/11/19 by Mr Whippy]


Errh, no that's not my car. It is beautifully engineered and the owner very kindly let me have photos of his set-up for me to copy.

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v8kid

posted on 18/11/19 at 06:38 PM Reply With Quote
Yikes ! I just checked out your Kitten build you've got a big heart taking that on.

I think I will continue lusting after a 7 to tinker with.

Cheers





You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a chainsaw

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theprisioner

posted on 19/11/19 at 03:51 PM Reply With Quote
I thought, as owner of the car, I would make some comments. The car was bought as an unfinished project 5 years ago. In fact it was a pile of boxes in a garage in Ardrie. It was originally an Austin Ruby from 1937 (I believe), at least that is what most of the bits are from. It has a Super Accessories Body from the 1950's in original condition (not very good) I took about 2 years to put it all together, the plans of how the body fits the chassis etc were a pure invention of mine.

I then ran it for about a year trying to get some sort of reliable car out of it and I even took it up Bealach na Ba as a challenge. The car had very little brakes, very poor performance, and vague steering that was almost lethal, in fact it was the most hair raising motoring experience of my life.

After returning from the Highlands I decided to sell the car before it killed me. Later I thought what would it take to make it into a competitive hill climb car and anyway I needed a project.

Answer - lots of money and time......

1) The Engine was totally upgraded to 3x the original power output with all the usual upgrades
2) A racing gearbox was obtained
3) Hydraulic twin circuit, twin leading shoe brakes were added (that was a challenge)
4) The Bowden independent suspension was upgraded (upper wishbones added) and the rear had a panhard rod installed
5) Electronic ignition to cope with revs of 6000rpm

The car achieved 5th place in it's class at the Bo'ness Revival hill climb this year

My target is now to improve my place on the leader board next year, so the rack and pinion project was born.

Now the purists have a valid point, but if I followed their advice I would not have had near as much fun in fact I would have sold the car by now. What do you think?


Bo'ness Revival video





http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/

http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/

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David Jenkins

posted on 19/11/19 at 04:16 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by theprisioner
Now the purists have a valid point, but if I followed their advice I would not have had near as much fun in fact I would have sold the car by now. What do you think?



If the changes can easily be reversed then I can't see that there's anything to complain about...





The older I get, the better I was...

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theprisioner

posted on 19/11/19 at 06:20 PM Reply With Quote
Austin gets rack and pinion

The changes can be listed some resorable many not, then it is a hill climb car, it featured in the Austin Seven owners cub mag this year, wonder what they thought of it.

1) Super Accessories Body from 1950;s, not very likely as I modified the chassis at the rear to accommodate
2) Tuned Engine, I am sure that someone will want less power???
3) Racing Gearbox, substitute one that will not change 1-2nd sometimes particularly when hot.
4) 1950's Bowden independent suspension, that can be changed back with a beam axel
5) IMP Steering yes that can be changed back to worm and peg with 1/4" turn free play
6) Rear panhard rod, yes that can be removed and take corners very carefully
7) Dual cct Hydraulic brakes can be removed for the suicidal
8) Go back to points distributor
9) Various cooling mods to use a modern radiator core and increased power can be reversed
10) Roll over protection and seat belts for hill climbs
11) Racing seats (welded alloy vintage type of course)





http://sylvabuild.blogspot.com/

http://austin7special.blogspot.co.uk/

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mark chandler

posted on 19/11/19 at 09:53 PM Reply With Quote
Cars that disappear into museums become artefacts so have lost purpose unless it's to show how we used to do things, something extremely rare you can make the case for, not a mass produced 7

I know one person who raced and sprinted his Austin 7, he found it very frustrating how the old guard become so protective about changes which if the technology had been freely available at the time would have been deployed. Now races a prewar MG

There are plenty out there, develop an enjoy

[Edited on 19/11/19 by mark chandler]

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David Jenkins

posted on 19/11/19 at 10:07 PM Reply With Quote
BTW: I wasn't trying to suggest that what you've done is only OK if it's reversible - there are lots of specials built around this car, and they're all individual.

As said above - if the old-timers had access to the same parts they would also have used them.





The older I get, the better I was...

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Sam_68

posted on 20/11/19 at 12:25 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
I think your solution with the steering rack is very good and as for bump steer it shouldn't be any worse than the steering box


If you get the geometry right with a steering box and drag link, you can achieve zero bump-steer with that set up... it can be geometrically as near perfect as makes no difference and it remains authentic to the technology available in period.

I know of no way that you can overcome bump steer with a rack and pinion on a beam axle, even one with central take-offs for the track rods, except mounting the rack directly to the axle (which has its own shortcoming of increasing the unsprung weight).

If you're going to adopt the Imp rack, the sensible thing to do is to also implement a Ballamy-style split-axle IFS (swing axle) arrangement, which the Imp rack was specifically designed for.

On the matter of "it's only a Seven... there are loads of them": records appear to suggest that there are about 2,300 left on the road, out of an original production of 290,000. That's slightly less than 0.8%, and a great many of those will have been heavily modifed, too. Mechanically original Austin Sevens are no longer commonplace, so the further damage of any individual car remains a cause for concern and regret.

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JimSpencer

posted on 20/11/19 at 08:11 AM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
so the further damage of any individual car remains a cause for concern and regret.


Not to the majority of us on here... But you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

Personally I think it's great.. it's continuing the tradition of Austin 7 specials, the creators of which basically formed the 750MC, that can be generally considered to be the most influential club in the development of what the UK Motorsport Industry has become..

But each to their own etc etc

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Sam_68

posted on 20/11/19 at 12:27 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JimSpencer
Personally I think it's great.. it's continuing the tradition of Austin 7 specials, the creators of which basically formed the 750MC, that can be generally considered to be the most influential club in the development of what the UK Motorsport Industry has become...

Well, of course the traditions of the 750MC are admirably continued... by the 750MC.

...Who agree with me: their class for historic Austin Seven specials requires that you retain "An Austin Seven steering wheel/contemporary equivalent, Austin Seven steering box or reproduction copy and column..." (or other pre 1939 steering box).

For what it's worth, creating an Austin Seven Special that unnecessarily excludes itself from the relevant 750MC class, and limits you to hillclimbing, seems pretty silly to me, too, but as you say, each to their own.

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sdh2903

posted on 20/11/19 at 12:56 PM Reply With Quote
I wonder what percentage of mk1/2 escorts are left. Or the humble sierra. Or the mk1 mx5 or the midget or the Ah Sprite that have all succumbed to being donor vehicles to feed this industry? All of which (apart from the sierra maybe) have some historical value. Even the humble mx5 will be a future classic (in mk1 guise).

I think most can understand where you're coming from sam, even me, but do you not think it's a touch hypocritical on a site that has these values ingrained into it's very existence?

I'm still of the viewpoint it's better in Alastairs hands being used in anger in whatever modified state than rotting away in boxes in the back of someone's shed.

[Edited on 20/11/19 by sdh2903]

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