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Author: Subject: Retropower Gordon Murray Escort
John Bonnett

posted on 14/7/20 at 08:04 AM Reply With Quote
Retropower Gordon Murray Escort

I've been following the excellent Retropower YouTube videos showing the work they are doing on a wide range of classic cars, enhancing performance and bringing the specs up to modern day standards without changing their outward appearance. A really professional outfit with in-house capabilities to do just about everything. Well worth watching in my opinion.

They have just finished a MK1 Escort for Gordon Murray and it clearly doesn't qualify for the mandatory 8 points. So I imagine that it has gone through IVA but retaining the original registration number. Looking at the DVLA vehicle enquiry site it is described as a Retropower Twin cam first registered 2019.

I'm not well up on how things work and I wondered if someone could explain to me how it is possible to retain the original registration number without the 8 points and so many non standard parts.

Retropower have obviously gone through the correct procedure and I'm not questioning that. I would just like to know the rules on keeping the original registration of the donor car.

Thank you

John

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theduck

posted on 14/7/20 at 10:55 AM Reply With Quote
I am guessing the process went something like:

Buy escort with original plate and put plate on retention
Build and IVA heavily modified escort and qualify for an age related plate
Put original plate on as a personal registration

That is, assuming it IS the original plate, and not just an age related plate.

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Simon

posted on 14/7/20 at 06:32 PM Reply With Quote
I think the gov website is shockingly unclear.

Eg See this page https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval

Hmm, my mid engined Beetle with modified Audi A6 rear subframe, RX8 front subframe fabricated chassis Boxster box and A6 V8 engine - all the bits are older than 10 years so I guess i don't need approval

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NuZil

posted on 14/7/20 at 08:21 PM Reply With Quote
There's a bloke building a mid engined Spitfire on a FB group I'm in.
Mid mounted Audi engine and transaxle.
Rear chassis behind the seats is all new.

Everyone's tried to point him in the direction of having it IVA'd, but he's having none of it. Some of the fabrication is a bit horrific.

This, for example.

(This car will not be going through an IVA).




[Edited on 14/7/20 by NuZil]

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John Bonnett

posted on 14/7/20 at 08:24 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Simon
I think the gov website is shockingly unclear.

Eg See this page https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval/exemptions-from-vehicle-approval

Hmm, my mid engined Beetle with modified Audi A6 rear subframe, RX8 front subframe fabricated chassis Boxster box and A6 V8 engine - all the bits are older than 10 years so I guess i don't need approval


Carte blanche to do what we like then, ha ha!

[Edited on 14/7/20 by John Bonnett]

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Benzine

posted on 14/7/20 at 11:14 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NuZil

Everyone's tried to point him in the direction of having it IVA'd, but he's having none of it. Some of the fabrication is a bit horrific.



I've seen this car on 1 or 2 FB groups and also saw his refusal to acknowledge IVA etc "It's already registered" he said

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NuZil

posted on 14/7/20 at 11:17 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
quote:
Originally posted by NuZil

Everyone's tried to point him in the direction of having it IVA'd, but he's having none of it. Some of the fabrication is a bit horrific.



I've seen this car on 1 or 2 FB groups and also saw his refusal to acknowledge IVA etc "It's already registered" he said


I've just taken a note of where he is so I can avoid him.

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nick205

posted on 15/7/20 at 03:53 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
quote:
Originally posted by NuZil

Everyone's tried to point him in the direction of having it IVA'd, but he's having none of it. Some of the fabrication is a bit horrific.



I've seen this car on 1 or 2 FB groups and also saw his refusal to acknowledge IVA etc "It's already registered" he said




It just makes me shudder to think about it being on the road uninspected. I'm all for creativity, but it has to be managed with safety and process!

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nick205

posted on 15/7/20 at 03:56 PM Reply With Quote
Back to the OPs post - I've seen the Retropower stuff and the Gordon Murray Escort. As a company they certainly seem skilled at vehicle restoration and modernisation. I do like the idea of a classic vehicle with modern car driveability.
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John Bonnett

posted on 15/7/20 at 04:00 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Back to the OPs post - I've seen the Retropower stuff and the Gordon Murray Escort. As a company they certainly seem skilled at vehicle restoration and modernisation. I do like the idea of a classic vehicle with modern car driveability.


So do I Nick which is probably why I find their work so fascinating. And the presenter is so enthusiastic about each and ever one of their projects. It just shows what can be achieved when cost is no object.

[Edited on 15/7/20 by John Bonnett]

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mangogrooveworkshop

posted on 16/7/20 at 04:31 PM Reply With Quote
Did you know that the company Retropower was born on this forum by member Nat aka NSdev
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=144462


quote:
Originally posted by John Bonnett
I've been following the excellent Retropower YouTube videos showing the work they are doing on a wide range of classic cars, enhancing performance and bringing the specs up to modern day standards without changing their outward appearance. A really professional outfit with in-house capabilities to do just about everything. Well worth watching in my opinion.

They have just finished a MK1 Escort for Gordon Murray and it clearly doesn't qualify for the mandatory 8 points. So I imagine that it has gone through IVA but retaining the original registration number. Looking at the DVLA vehicle enquiry site it is described as a Retropower Twin cam first registered 2019.

I'm not well up on how things work and I wondered if someone could explain to me how it is possible to retain the original registration number without the 8 points and so many non standard parts.

Retropower have obviously gone through the correct procedure and I'm not questioning that. I would just like to know the rules on keeping the original registration of the donor car.

Thank you

John

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John Bonnett

posted on 16/7/20 at 05:29 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mangogrooveworkshop
Did you know that the company Retropower was born on this forum by member Nat aka NSdev
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=144462

Oh that is interesting. They're a class act no mistaking that and he did some brilliant stuff here on this forum.

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James

posted on 23/7/20 at 04:03 PM Reply With Quote
I'm sure it's a lovely Escort and Retropower's work is fantastic and I envy the ability to do such things!

However... if I owned XP5 like Gordon Murray does I'm not sure I'd bother too much about other cars!

Well, maybe an old V70 for going to the tip in but that's about it!

[Edited on 23/7/20 by James]





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Old fogey

posted on 8/12/20 at 04:48 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by John Bonnett
I've been following the excellent Retropower YouTube videos showing the work they are doing on a wide range of classic cars, enhancing performance and bringing the specs up to modern day standards without changing their outward appearance. A really professional outfit with in-house capabilities to do just about everything. Well worth watching in my opinion.

They have just finished a MK1 Escort for Gordon Murray and it clearly doesn't qualify for the mandatory 8 points. So I imagine that it has gone through IVA but retaining the original registration number. Looking at the DVLA vehicle enquiry site it is described as a Retropower Twin cam first registered 2019.

I'm not well up on how things work and I wondered if someone could explain to me how it is possible to retain the original registration number without the 8 points and so many non standard parts.

Retropower have obviously gone through the correct procedure and I'm not questioning that. I would just like to know the rules on keeping the original registration of the donor car.

Thank you

John

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Old fogey

posted on 8/12/20 at 04:59 PM Reply With Quote
I have a mk1 escort built up from an accident repairable car ,i applied for a new logbook and told i have to have a q plate and a full iva test,this means changing steering rack ,fitting new e marked glass ,fitting a cat,have to fit dual circuit brakes.then there is all the switch stupidity.
Ps this car was an accident repairable because the rear jacking point had crushed the sill up. All the components are ford escort,except for the 2.8 capri front struts
I intend to ask the DVLA why Gorden Murrays car gets an H age related plate and i cant keep my L reg

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John Bonnett

posted on 8/12/20 at 06:40 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old fogey
I have a mk1 escort built up from an accident repairable car ,i applied for a new logbook and told i have to have a q plate and a full iva test,this means changing steering rack ,fitting new e marked glass ,fitting a cat,have to fit dual circuit brakes.then there is all the switch stupidity.
Ps this car was an accident repairable because the rear jacking point had crushed the sill up. All the components are ford escort,except for the 2.8 capri front struts
I intend to ask the DVLA why Gorden Murrays car gets an H age related plate and i cant keep my L reg



I did find the answer to my question. The GM Escort went through IVA and was registered as a new car with Retropower having built the shell. All components were new also. They then sourced a cherished, age related registration plate.

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Old fogey

posted on 8/12/20 at 09:17 PM Reply With Quote
I was told that because mine was going to be on a Q plate i couldn’t use a cherished plate.will have to check this.have to say the dvla rules and regulations are a complicated nightmare.
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steve m

posted on 8/12/20 at 10:53 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old fogey
I have a mk1 escort built up from an accident repairable car ,i applied for a new logbook and told i have to have a q plate and a full iva test,this means changing steering rack ,fitting new e marked glass ,fitting a cat,have to fit dual circuit brakes.then there is all the switch stupidity.
Ps this car was an accident repairable because the rear jacking point had crushed the sill up. All the components are ford escort,except for the 2.8 capri front struts
I intend to ask the DVLA why Gorden Murrays car gets an H age related plate and i cant keep my L reg


You have already answered your own question, as if the car has been written off, for what ever reason you can not just put the car back on the road, these rules have been in place for many many years, and my last 3 cars, and a few others, have been Cat C and D, its sometimes not an easy process

However, your question on how Gordan Murry gets an age related plate, is valid, and that does seem to break the rules of registration

[Edited on 8/12/20 by steve m]





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




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peter030371

posted on 9/12/20 at 12:54 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old fogey
I was told that because mine was going to be on a Q plate i couldn’t use a cherished plate.will have to check this.have to say the dvla rules and regulations are a complicated nightmare.


You can't change the reg on a Q plated car, its fixed and non-transferable. If you IVA the car and use all new parts then you get a new plate i.e. xx70 xxx. This can be changed for an earlier plate just like slapping on a private plate.

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Toys2

posted on 10/12/20 at 12:02 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Old fogey
I was told that because mine was going to be on a Q plate i couldn’t use a cherished plate.will have to check this.have to say the dvla rules and regulations are a complicated nightmare.


I would question the initial decision for a Q plate, These are generally given when the car is made up from an assortment of parts

I would do what to can to legally avoid an IVA if possible as this would be an absolute pain on a MK1 Escort
If you do go the IVA route, I would investigate the age related plat option, this is where you prove that a certain number of parts came from a single donor, you don't get to keep the original plate, but you are issued with a replacement from the same era

You wouldn't need to fit a CAT for the IVA assuming that you are using the original engine

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CorseChris

posted on 10/12/20 at 05:22 PM Reply With Quote
I did the period plate thing back when I built a Stratos replica. Had a donor V5 for the Lancia Beta that provided engine, gearbox, 'transmission' driveshafts, brakes, (some of the) steering. Basically, enough points to qualify for age-related registration. I was issued a plate ending in 'X', which was fine by me. It was quite a good one as it happens - the chap issuing it (back when this was devolved to the LVLOs) was a fan and picked me a good one. I'd have been OK with a Q plate too.

Purely by chance, I happened to be at an IVA test a while back and the inspector doing the car I was with did the Murray Escort. Failed it too A speedo problem IIRC.

Hopefully the chap with that Spitfire will be directed to IVA at some point - rules are perfectly clear. Modify the chassis - it gets an IVA test.

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ettore bugatti

posted on 10/12/20 at 06:23 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve m

However, your question on how Gordan Murry gets an age related plate, is valid, and that does seem to break the rules of registration




The high end build aspect of the build and the new components (engine, gearbox) indicates that it is a 2019 new build car (and not using a Escort VIN) with H reg personal plate on.
If you do a check it also will come up as RETROPOWER TWINCAM

Motorsport Tools can also build you a brand new Escort Mk1/2, they probably can source the E-marked glass as well.

[Edited on 10/12/20 by ettore bugatti]

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snapper

posted on 10/12/20 at 07:32 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NuZil
There's a bloke building a mid engined Spitfire on a FB group I'm in.
Mid mounted Audi engine and transaxle.
Rear chassis behind the seats is all new.

Everyone's tried to point him in the direction of having it IVA'd, but he's having none of it. Some of the fabrication is a bit horrific.

This, for example.

(This car will not be going through an IVA).




[Edited on 14/7/20 by NuZil]


Oh my god, thin tube flattened then bolted to an axle mounting point. It even looks like he is right on the edge of one of the flats.





I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)

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steve m

posted on 10/12/20 at 07:50 PM Reply With Quote
The above picture of the spitfire illustrates the reason we have the IVA process, some people should not be allowed to own, let alone use any form of tools or welder etc on a vehicle, the risk to them selves, and possibly SEVERAL others is to much of a risk

I would be quite happy to "shop" the culprit to the authorities, if i knew were they lived!!





Thats was probably spelt wrong, or had some grammer, that the "grammer police have to have a moan at




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nicktruman

posted on 15/1/21 at 12:39 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NuZil
There's a bloke building a mid engined Spitfire on a FB group I'm in.
Mid mounted Audi engine and transaxle.
Rear chassis behind the seats is all new.

Everyone's tried to point him in the direction of having it IVA'd, but he's having none of it. Some of the fabrication is a bit horrific.

This, for example.

(This car will not be going through an IVA).




[Edited on 14/7/20 by NuZil]


Wow, thats not very friendly Nothing like taking a picture out of context!
I posted the picture in the other FB group asking for help, i used that help to construct this frame properly.
The car didn't need an IVA as the chassis hasn't been touched (much), The DVLA were fully involved and informed.

The car is now on the road and drives beautifully, if you buy February's Practical performance car magazine, my car is on the cover and features throughout





Regards
Nick

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