Toady1
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| posted on 29/4/07 at 04:52 PM |
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954 blade NO spark**FIXED**
anyone have any ideas as to why? Ive done the search thing to no avail!
Its an injected HISS 954cc blade lump. Ive shorted out the sidestand switch, I dont have a bank angle sensor....(maybe thats why?)...
Does anything else need shorting etc? thanks!
[Edited on 29/4/07 by Toady1]
[Edited on 9/5/07 by Toady1]
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jos
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| posted on 29/4/07 at 04:57 PM |
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two others spring to mind from my experience (very limited) of BEC's
Kill switch
and
Is it in neutral??
.: Motorsport / motor racing circuit / track wall art Apex Traxs :.
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yorkshire-engines
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| posted on 29/4/07 at 05:11 PM |
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Hi if you dont have bank angle sensor what have you done with it as its required for fuel pump and spark
you can join the 2 outer wires together
but best use one
also check kill switch
cheers malc
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esn163
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| posted on 29/4/07 at 05:17 PM |
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Hi
i know for the 919 you have to have a 390 ohm resistor in a pink wire from the ECU to a 12V feed, is the 954 the same anyone?
There's a diagram somewhere but it's also talked about here.
HTH
Ed
Indy Build Photos
** Build pages **
Photo Bucket Pics
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Toady1
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| posted on 29/4/07 at 05:36 PM |
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cheers guys...
It is in nuetral yes, the clocks even tell me it is.
I dont have a kill switch on it, or a start switch tbh, ive just connected 2 wires to the start switch block that turn over the engine. Maybe it needs
more than just the 2 wires to turn the engine over?
Malc - Ive not got a bank angle sensor as wasnt given it with my kit?? I could really do with getting hold of one i think, but have tried bridging the
2 outer wires. I take it the fuel pump wont work unless its submerged in the fuel? Ill check the kill switch wires, theres nowt connected to them atm
so the circuit will be open...
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froggy
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| posted on 29/4/07 at 07:08 PM |
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i tried to bypass the banked over switch on my tl van but it wouldnt run without it and i think it needs a resistor to run without the switch, dont
know about the honda though
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Toady1
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| posted on 30/4/07 at 08:20 PM |
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Update - ive bridged the 2 outer wires together as Malc suggested, which has made the fuel pump now work (have since disconnected the pump as its not
yet in the tank and didnt want it running dry). Have bridged the kill switch together to close the circuit, and still I have no spark??
I thought it may be something to do with the HISS as when i bought the engine the key surround magnetic part was broken from the crash. However the
seller gave me a good one and told me they are interchangeable (The HISS light goes on on the clocks for a second when the key is turned, and then
goes out). As i thought it may be that i put the old broken one back on to try that, but where the circuit board is broken (I tried to push it
together to make a connection) the HISS light went on...and didnt go out! So its obviously not that. Im sure I read in the manual that the HISS light
is meant to go on for a second when the key is turned on, and then go out...as it does, so I dont think its a prob with the HISS.
Anyone else got any ideas???
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 30/4/07 at 08:55 PM |
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Ive not had any first hand experience with the 954 but I always thought the HISS system was an immobiliser that tied the key / barrel to the ECU?
If thats the case then you'll need a matching pair so you've swapped your ignition barrel for another one, then I suspect that's
where the problem lies.
Chris
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 30/4/07 at 09:05 PM |
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quote:
Honda's highly capable H.I.S.S. anti-theft system features a fail-safe electronic interlock that prevents the engine from being started in any
other way than using the motorcycle's two original keys. Totally disabling the engine at the very heart of its ignition system, the system
cannot be bypassed by either hot-wiring the ignition or exchanging the ignition switch module, thus effectively deterring joyriders and greatly
reducing the possibility of ride-away theft.
From Honda UK website, seems to suggest the ignition barrels can't
be swapped.
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 30/4/07 at 09:30 PM |
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Both the 929 and the 954 blades share the same honda hiss system,the barrel itself has nothing to do with the immobiliser directly,the ignition key
has a transponder chip built into it,this is matched to the bikes ecu,the key and the ecu need to be a matching pair,the transponder ariel fits around
the barrel,its this that sends the oscilating signal to the ecu,these are interchangable.
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 30/4/07 at 09:32 PM |
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Ah OK that explains it, from reading above it sounded like Toady had changed a circuit board which I assumed would be part of the immobiliser
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the_fbi
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| posted on 30/4/07 at 10:17 PM |
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Can you clarify, the engine turns over but no spark?
I've never had my 954 running, although I've got all the bits, so if you need to borrow any parts let me know (although I'm now away
for 2 days) and I'm sure we can meet up.
I'm guessing very much like a car, you won't get sparks till your crank and/or cam sensor is seeing rotation, so check thats wired up.
954 is coil on plug, so no need to ask if the coils are wired up OK.
If the engine cranks over OK I presume the engine earth is OK, but worth checking the heads's got a nice earth even though its bolted to the
block.
The kill switch also has a run switch, not sure how that works, ie. if it stops the fuel pump or not. So not sure if a working fuel pump means
anything.
The 919 CDI has about 4 earth wires, all light green. The 954 is probably similar, check you've got all the earths for the ECU grounded, one may
just be a fraction unhappy.
Isn't there a clutch switch too, which has to be pulled in to start? So I presume another wire to ground.
I've got a 954 Haynes, I'll have a quick look through to see if anything springs to mind.
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the_fbi
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| posted on 30/4/07 at 10:36 PM |
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OK... looking at the diagram.
Clutch switch, links into the starter relay, also a green/wite wire which goes into the sidestand switch. This looks like it gounds the starter relay,
so if the starter motor turns then looks like they are both sorted.
Engine stop relay, goes into fuse F, which is a 20A, fuel injection fuse.
Also goes into lean angle sensor, red/orange wire. And the middle of the engine stop and starter switches. If the starter switch works then this relay
must be OK.
Engine stop switch appears to be normally closed, check you've not got this open.
Sidestand switch links into clutch switch, and both are shown as normally open but I believe both should be closed to run.
Cam pulse generator is a 2 wire job, one grey and one black, maybe in a 4 way connector with the cooling fan? Comes out of the connector as one grey
one white.
Reading the fault finding section....
Engine will turn over and not spark if the kill switch is in the off position.
Engine will not spark if the ignition or kill switches are shorted..
[Edited on 30/4/07 by the_fbi]
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Toady1
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| posted on 1/5/07 at 12:10 PM |
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thanks everyone for the replies.
Ive not shorted the clutch switch as ive done the sidestand switch, i am under the impression that only one has to be done, and if neither are done
then the engine wont even crank. My engine does crank over tho.
The HISS appears to be working fine as the light goes out after 2 secs, and the fuel pump works. I think my problem lies somewhere in my wiring to try
and start the thing, ie. Ive just connected wires up to turn the engine over.
FBI - I dont suppose you have the right handle switches do you that I could maybe borrow to try? (the stop/start switches)
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 1/5/07 at 12:26 PM |
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Are you sure only one of the clutch / sidestand switches needs to be shorted*, because Im pretty sure on earlier blades you needed to do both which
makes more sense from a safety point of view, ie not allowing you to start unless you've put the sidestand up and pulled the clutch.
*or switched to it's effective off position whether thats open or closed I dont know.
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worX
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| posted on 1/5/07 at 01:04 PM |
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On mine (early) they both need to be done only for starting in gear and
so it is worth doing anyway but shouldn't prevent you from starting the car in nuetral, which you say you know it is...
hth
Steve
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Are you sure only one of the clutch / sidestand switches needs to be shorted*, because Im pretty sure on earlier blades you needed to do both which
makes more sense from a safety point of view, ie not allowing you to start unless you've put the sidestand up and pulled the clutch.
*or switched to it's effective off position whether thats open or closed I dont know.
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Toady1
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| posted on 1/5/07 at 03:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Are you sure only one of the clutch / sidestand switches needs to be shorted*, because Im pretty sure on earlier blades you needed to do both which
makes more sense from a safety point of view, ie not allowing you to start unless you've put the sidestand up and pulled the clutch.
*or switched to it's effective off position whether thats open or closed I dont know.
yes im pretty sure, as if the sidestand switch is open the engine wont even turn over, let alone spark, but if its in nuetral you just have to have
the sidestand switch closed. Otherwise if it was related then surely when the clutch is released the engine would stop sparking-which isnt going to be
much good!lol! I think the idea is so the bike cant be started whilst in gear, hence making it jump on the starter. But if its in nuetral it shouldnt
matter?
On the earlier ones does the engine not fire or not turn without both the clutch and sss bridged?
[Edited on 1/5/07 by Toady1]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 1/5/07 at 05:35 PM |
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The carbed blade had a seperate neutral switch as well as a clutch and sidestand switch but not sure in what combinations it would/wouldnt start. Also
the kill switch on the old blade needed to be OPEN to start, not shorted which you said you've done?
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 1/5/07 at 05:37 PM |
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This is the startup list I wrote for the 919, not sure how relevent it will be but it might trigger something in your head if nothing else......
quote:
• Ensure the chassis is earthed to the negative battery terminal
• Ensure all Green wires in the loom are earthed to the chassis
• Connect Green and Green/White together at the side-stand switch connector
• Connect Green/White and Green/Red together at the clutch switch connector
• Earth the Blue/Red neutral switch wire (Unless you always want to find neutral before starting it!)
If you don’t have the original handlebar switches:
o Connect a switch between Black and Black/White for the stop switch. Leave switch in “open” position until ready to start.
o Connect a switch between Red/Yellow and Black/White for the starter switch. Leave switch in “open” position until ready to start.
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Toady1
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| posted on 2/5/07 at 07:32 AM |
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mmm, cheers for that, but i seem to have done all that bar the clutch switch. Ill try that and see what it does. thanks guys!
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the_fbi
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| posted on 2/5/07 at 06:51 PM |
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Sorry, no bar switches
Have you got the Haynes or its wiring diagram? It shows the full circuits of all the switches and which ones interact.
I can scan and email tomorrow if it helps?
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Toady1
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| posted on 3/5/07 at 06:34 AM |
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hi mate, yes i do have a nice wiring diag i got off the net but its not a colour one like the haynes one. Still shows what wires go where, only prob
with it is some of the text isnt very clear.
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Toady1
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| posted on 9/5/07 at 08:36 PM |
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my problem is now fixed! wahoo! twas a schoolboy error that was helped by Grahame emailing me his haynes wiring diagram! I had a connector on the
wrong one! 
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