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First time build, long time ambition!
Opirun - 31/3/13 at 04:55 PM

Hello all,

This is my first post here, I would really appreciate input from the community. I am looking to build my first kit car. My first decision to be made was CEC vs BEC, and despite the drawbacks of the BEC, I have decided that this would be my preferred choice simply for my ambition to build and drive a bike engined kit car. I then decided that the Honda FireBlade would be my choice of engine, for two reasons, cost and the fact that that it would be more than enough power for me for my first kit car build. I hope I am making the right choices here (I guess there is no right or wrong here, just preference?)

I am now trying to decide on a chassis option. I am too novice a builder and do not have the equipment or space to build a chassis from scratch, I am therefore looking for a starter kit that I can purchase. I have looked at three options which I appreciate are low budget options. MK, Tiger and GBS Zero. I have looked at the material on the three kit websites and read around these options. What I am not sure about is which option would be the optimum for me in terms of my choice of Engine (and maybe even the option of upgrading to a more powerful bike engine in the future).

I look forward to you input, experience, recommendations, etc.

Thank-you

daniel mason - 31/3/13 at 05:01 PM

MNR! well worth a look,and can be done on budget. customer service second to none. if you stick to a carbrd blade or R1 you can build on a budget and mnr will allow you to buy as much or as little as you want from them and source the rest yourself!
welcome to the forum,and if you need anyn extra advice feel free to ask.
other options id consider would be aries/stm or raw
or if buying built,a used westfield

Opirun - 31/3/13 at 05:12 PM

Thanks so much for your post Daniel. I really appreciate your suggestions. Simply a personal choice, I prefer the look of the chassis options I suggested. Nothing at all against MNR, they seems like a great kit car supplier and I am glad you had a good experience with them (nice blog btw ).

I didn't realise that the R1 would be a cost contender against the blade? Also, I am not sure how much I would save on going for a carbed option (not sure if anyone has any ideas on this). However, I would be more than happy to go for a carb option, as budget is key for me at the moment.

Thanks again.

daniel mason - 31/3/13 at 05:25 PM

not trying to push them but have you seen the mnr chassis? quality of finish is very very good.
the carbed R1 (2001 5jj are 150bhp i think,) i had one in an mnr. the injected engines produced more power but need ecu,power commander etc and generally more expensive to but. although andy bates from AB performance has an rr5 blade motor for sale complete at £800. look in for sale section as its cheap

mac1ZR - 31/3/13 at 05:25 PM

Mac#1 with ZX10r. Don't choose anything else, especially if you need assistance with any part of the build, they are very helpful with all aspects

SausageArm - 31/3/13 at 06:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by mac1ZR
Mac#1 with ZX10r. Don't choose anything else, especially if you need assistance with any part of the build, they are very helpful with all aspects


I built one of these as my first kit car, they're a good pair of lads to talk to and deal with, pop in for a chat prior to buying, have a look around and see what you think would be my advice, but I've not met anyone with a bad word to say.

If you want more build info I've got a start to finish build thread you could read/look at.

Opirun - 31/3/13 at 07:52 PM

daniel mason, how easy was it to adapt the R1 carbed engine to the MNR?

mac1ZR, SausageArm, Thanks, I had not considered the Mac#1, no idea on price compared to Tiger, MK and GBS Zero, I have to request for a price list, which I will do.

norm007 - 31/3/13 at 08:27 PM

Where abouts are you Opirun???

I ask as a mate of mine has a badly crashed Fireblade in his garage.

I cant see him wanting a load of money for it.

The engine survived along with all the electrics that you would need.

He is in Knotingly near Pontefract

Opirun - 31/3/13 at 08:41 PM

I am in Leicester. Thanks norm007, I will keep this in mind if I decide to go with the Fireblade.

By the way I am not sure of the forum rules, can we post in different groups in the forum, e.g. posting in the chassis section, to ask about chassis recommendations for my project, etc.

Thanks

mac1ZR - 31/3/13 at 08:55 PM

Have a ride up to Sheffield, and talk directly to Mark and Colin at Mac 1, top blokes!

mookaloid - 31/3/13 at 08:57 PM

Forum rules are quite relaxed here so post away

A major thing to consider when choosing your chassis particularly for a first time build is that you want the manufacturer of the kit to be geographically near to you as you will probably want to call in for advice and collect parts quite regularly

Opirun - 31/3/13 at 09:10 PM

quote:

Have a ride up to Sheffield, and talk directly to Mark and Colin at Mac 1, top blokes!


I would like to find out if this will be out of my budget, can seem to find prices online. Guess I will have to wait until later on in the week to find out

ReMan - 31/3/13 at 09:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Opirun
quote:

Have a ride up to Sheffield, and talk directly to Mark and Colin at Mac 1, top blokes!


I would like to find out if this will be out of my budget, can seem to find prices online. Guess I will have to wait until later on in the week to find out

I'm in Leicestershire, Fire blades a good start, I'd ask what the posters mate wants for it......?
But dont double post the same qustions in each forum as they all look the same when theyre on the front page
Might even wash an drive mine tomorrow, whereabouts are you?

Steve - 31/3/13 at 09:48 PM

Hi norm007 I'm in ponte and looking for a bike engine how much does your mate want??

Sorry or jumping in opirun

Cheers steve

Opirun - 31/3/13 at 10:04 PM

ReMan,

Thanks, what's you experience been with the combination of the fireblade and MK Indy? Is your engine carbed or fuel injected? I am in the east side of the city. Hope the weather will be good for you tomorrow, nice way to spend the bank holiday

norm007, No problem, go ahead if you get a deal you are looking for , even if I did go for the fireblade, I would first look at something a little closer to home

ReMan - 31/3/13 at 10:13 PM

Old '92carbed blade, been as good as gold , if not a bit tired now.
MK are fine all things considered, as a budget motor,
I'm no driving god
They're better/quicker than me and most others

[Edited on 31/3/13 by ReMan]

HappyFather - 31/3/13 at 10:42 PM

If you're on a budget, also consider an Aries Locoblade. The site: www.ariesmotorsport.co.uk

Aries is just 30 miles away from you, north through M1, near Ilkeston.

In terms of budget, it is in line with MK, Mac#1. I can't compare with Tiger nor GBS Zero because I didn't check those at the time. It is cheaper than MNR. And Steve, the man behind Aries, gives stellar support during the build!

In terms of engine, Blades are probably cheaper than R1, but the big difference is carbs or injection. Carbs will be cheaper because you can use the bike's ancillaries, if you go injection you may need to buy a custom management system and then get the car on the rollers to configure it properly.
Also, a pre-1994 carb'ed engine does not need a catalyst for IVA, any engine after that will require one and have stricter emission rules.

Opirun - 1/4/13 at 03:50 PM

Thanks HappyFather,

I will put them on my list to check out and contact.


quote:

Also, a pre-1994 carb'ed engine does not need a catalyst for IVA, any engine after that will require one and have stricter emission rules.


How difficult would it be to pass regulations on the later models?

HappyFather - 1/4/13 at 06:27 PM

It is not difficult. It just requires tuning the engine at a rolling road shop with proper equipment. Because besides having a catalytic thing on the car, you also have to set up the electronics to behave according to what sensors feed it. So that emissions are below the required levels.

I believe (from reading around) that people even have two maps configured on a rolling road session: 1) for IVA and MOT, that offers less power but has lower emissions; 2) for track and fun use. The driver/builder can change the maps at home with just a laptop connected to the car.

I just pointed out the fact because if you are on a budget, going for an old engine saves you money on the engine, on the auxiliary stuff (cat, ECU), and on the rolling road. The downside being less powerful engines and less green engines.

Cheers,
HappyFather

norm007 - 2/4/13 at 02:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Hi norm007 I'm in ponte and looking for a bike engine how much does your mate want??

Sorry or jumping in opirun

Cheers steve



U2U sent

Opirun - 2/4/13 at 04:38 PM

Just wondering if anyone has undertaken, seen or know of a GBS zero with a bike engine? I haven't seen many about in the research so far. Thanks.

AndyW - 2/4/13 at 05:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Opirun
Just wondering if anyone has undertaken, seen or know of a GBS zero with a bike engine? I haven't seen many about in the research so far. Thanks.


Not doing a bike engine, but the factory have. I have seen the chassis on a prior visit. Ring them, ask for Richard and he will tell all!!

theduck - 2/4/13 at 06:30 PM

Go to stoneleigh, visit all the manufacturers and talk to them, try to ignore the sales rubbish and get down to the service and the product. For me, if buying a new kit, there is only 1 option.

Opirun - 2/4/13 at 07:12 PM

Thanks theduck, thats one of the reasons I am here, I have been to the recent kit car show, had the sales.... 'material', now I need the real stuff

quote:

For me, if buying a new kit, there is only 1 option.


Oh you are leaving us in suspense, what is it?

P.S why am I still "unverified" after 30 odd posts ? Is it because I am just a kit car building wannabe at this stage?

[Edited on 2/4/13 by Opirun]

[Edited on 2/4/13 by Opirun]

theduck - 2/4/13 at 07:21 PM

Haha. Sorry I didn't mean to leave it like that. I'd buy an mnr. From the research I did they were by far the best quality kit with the best level of service. Also the 'cheaper' kits would end up costing just as much if not more to build then the MNRs.

daniel mason - 2/4/13 at 08:01 PM

thats exactly what i said a few days ago in these threads ^^^^^^ good advice!

adithorp - 2/4/13 at 08:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Opirun
I have been to the recent kit car show, had the sales.... 'material', now I need the real stuff



Which recent show? None of the other shows is 1/4 the size of Stoneleigh. There'll be almost all the manufacturers there, plus hundreds owners with their cars... usually more than happy to chat about their builds and you might even blag a ride or two.

Have you considered a second hand/built car? It'll work out cheaper to strip and rebuild to your own spec than starting from scratch and you avoid the hassle of IVA and registration.

Opirun - 2/4/13 at 10:30 PM

Goodness me, it was stoneleigh kit car show last year. Feels like yesterday. Awesome event for sure.

Unfortunetly the look for the MNR still doesn't gel with me. Again nothing against them, just personal choice.

I am certainly considering a prebuilt.

I often hear about intense IVA tests from kit car owners, sounds like it a little more than just passing an MOT! Has anyone ever breezed through this with there kit?

jonabonospen - 2/4/13 at 11:10 PM

I took on my first build with a Mac#1 and went with the Worx model and the ZX10R engine that it is ideally built for....... well it started out like that. Then I got the opportunity for a turbo'd ZX10R so I decided to have a change of plan and go that route.

So to that end, I have a spare 2006 ZX10R engine that is wanting to be sold, which can also come with throttle bodies, power commander, clocks, radiator & fan, coolant expansion bottle, and fuel pump, if wanted.

I can also recommend the Mac#1 guys in terms of the help and assistance in doing your build which will be essential if it is your first one. Their coffee machine is always on and they are always welcoming for you to just even go and have a chat and a look around their workshop and sit in a couple of cars normally.

In terms of price I would say they are probably about the same as MK...... but do a search for MK customer service and you will get a load of results........ and that is what put me off going with them, especially as a first timer.

adithorp - 2/4/13 at 11:15 PM

Those that do "breeze through" have put in the hard work beforehand. It's a matter of reading, understanding and building to, the IVA manual... and a bit of luck.

theduck - 3/4/13 at 07:19 AM

Is it the nosecone you don't like? If so they do offer a more traditional style one!

Opirun - 3/4/13 at 01:01 PM

Oh I didn't realise they do an alternative nose cone, anyway, I plan to spend more time inside it than looking at it from the outside

I have some prices for the Mac#1, and it is looking like its going to be too much for me to spend on a kit at the moment
Here is the price list
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/47274064/Worx%20short%20Jan%202011.pdf

Anyone know where else I can look for prebuilds/unfinished kits. So far I have been looking on Pistonheads, ebay and here. I don't know of any other places to look.

Thanks.