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Fireblade Engine Upgrade (893cc -> 1000cc)
chrisbmxr - 3/4/18 at 02:08 PM

Hi all,

My MK Indy is currently running an 893cc lump from a CBR900RR. I am thinking of upgrading it to a newer CBR1000RR motor to get some more poke and wondered how much of my existing set up can be utilized for the new engine? I.e. are there any parts that I could re-use (engine cradle/exhaust/prop etc) or will it all need replacing to fit the newer engine?

If anyone has done this upgrade any advice would be much appreciated!

I'm starting to build a checklist of bit's I'll need to replace/source so I can start shopping

Thanks.


CosKev3 - 3/4/18 at 02:30 PM

AB Performance will be the place to speak too.

I would guess possibly the propshaft might work,but everything else will need changing to match new lump.


chrisbmxr - 6/4/18 at 09:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
AB Performance will be the place to speak too.

I would guess possibly the propshaft might work,but everything else will need changing to match new lump.


Thanks.

I guess if that's the case I might as well go the whole hog and go Busa Gen 2 ... or even ZZR14


chrisbmxr - 16/4/18 at 10:16 AM

Took the nose off over the weekend ... turns out its a 919cc blade engine, not the 893cc as I was told!!!

Best get the DVLA/Insurance updated!!!


jossey - 16/4/18 at 11:46 AM

Better engine though so that's a bonus.

Is it really worth it to upgrade it.

Better with dyno jet kit and forced induction box instead in my opinion.

Cost of the change will outweigh the benefits won't it?


OliilO - 16/4/18 at 07:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jossey
Better engine though so that's a bonus.

Is it really worth it to upgrade it.

Better with dyno jet kit and forced induction box instead in my opinion.

Cost of the change will outweigh the benefits won't it?


It won't be cheap but a cbr1000 is getting on for 180hp compared to 120ish for a 919, so i'd say it'd be a noticeable change and worth it! However, I might be trying to justify it to myself as I have just bought a cbr1000 package to replace my 954 engine...


Hopley89 - 16/4/18 at 07:32 PM

Hi chap a bloke call chesire bike breakers have got a complete package,

ebay item number. 202272836057

that is who i brought my engine package off,
if you do the change over and need a hand give me a shout as there is a few
trick you need to do to bypass all the item that are no longer going to be attached to the
ecu,
side stand, abs, clutch switch also a few more that needs to be done,

i also figured out how to use a abs ecu and bypass it so itís not on the clock also not affecting
the ecu and power...


Hopley89 - 16/4/18 at 07:37 PM

Hard to get sump for zzr1400 and parts as people have moved away from that engine,
also the power from cbr1000rr and the weight of engine compared to busa iíd go cbr all day long
! plus price of good busa is to
expensive compared to £3k package for cbr1000rr lump the dry sump is like £1500 plus for busa after you have
spent £5k+ on engine package!





quote]Originally posted by chrisbmxr

quote:
Originally posted by CosKev3
AB Performance will be the place to speak too.

I would guess possibly the propshaft might work,but everything else will need changing to match new lump.


Thanks.

I guess if that's the case I might as well go the whole hog and go Busa Gen 2 ... or even ZZR14


gsr88 - 18/5/18 at 01:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Hopley89
Hi chap a bloke call chesire bike breakers have got a complete package,

ebay item number. 202272836057

that is who i brought my engine package off,
if you do the change over and need a hand give me a shout as there is a few
trick you need to do to bypass all the item that are no longer going to be attached to the
ecu,
side stand, abs, clutch switch also a few more that needs to be done,

i also figured out how to use a abs ecu and bypass it so itís not on the clock also not affecting
the ecu and power...


Hi
I would be very interested in knowing what you did to to bypass the above items.

Thanks


jossey - 18/5/18 at 05:54 PM

Chris

What did you decide......

David


Hopley89 - 18/5/18 at 06:06 PM

There is a abs loom that is suppose to be attached to the loom so to bypass it i did

Main fuse 30amp there is a a blue wire and white wire you need to switch them over so blue to white and white to blue!! so the ect think itís still got abs loom attached, then the abs wire to clocks is an orange wire you need to earth this using a 2.2 ohm large resister (maplins)

Also where the abs look attached to the main harness you need to connect two wire there, but without my drawing in front of me iím not sure what colour there are..


it took me a month to get it all sorted so you can use the abs ecu WITHOUT the abs loom or abs system attached wile the clocks donít show ABS failure or warning light,

If you need any more information on this pm for my number and iíll send you over some information

ATB
HOP



quote:
Originally posted by gsr88
quote:
Originally posted by Hopley89
Hi chap a bloke call chesire bike breakers have got a complete package,

ebay item number. 202272836057

that is who i brought my engine package off,
if you do the change over and need a hand give me a shout as there is a few
trick you need to do to bypass all the item that are no longer going to be attached to the
ecu,
side stand, abs, clutch switch also a few more that needs to be done,

i also figured out how to use a abs ecu and bypass it so itís not on the clock also not affecting
the ecu and power...


Hi
I would be very interested in knowing what you did to to bypass the above items.

Thanks


DANMAN - 23/5/18 at 11:13 AM

I am in the middle of doing this right now, 1998 919 to a 2005 1000. The biggest issue so far has been dealing with the ridiculous difference in overall height from the 919 to the 1000 with its retardedly huge air box and secondary injectors.
So far it has involved the following:
- Completely new engine cradle.
- Complete rewire including the HISS system, HESD bypass, Exhaust servo bypass & speed sensor mod.
- New custom air box.
- New custom intake trumpets (I have had to lay over the throttle bodies which increased the intake tract length so I made new shorter trumpets from scratch to keep the intake tract as close to original as possible).
- Cooling system changes.
- Exhaust (the newer engines have oval exhaust ports versus the round ones on the older engines). I ended up making adaptors to re-use the old exhaust but will replace the headers completely at a later date.
- New shifting mechanism (the gear shift is in a completely different spot).
- New throttle cable set up.
- New clutch set up from cable to hydraulic.
- New scratch built fuel tank with integration of 1000 factory pump (you will be going from carb to injection so higher fuel pressure).

You will also need a baffled sump and heavy duty clutch set-up as well, I will be purchasing these from AB performance shortly.

The prop shaft adaptor from the 919 will fit and you can re-use your existing prop shaft, although since I was doing such a big job I replaced the back half of mine with a TRT unit instead.

[Edited on 23/5/18 by DANMAN]


DANMAN - 23/5/18 at 11:19 AM

A pic of the engine with air box, note the secondary injectors in the top that need to stay put:




[Edited on 23/5/18 by DANMAN]

[Edited on 23/5/18 by DANMAN]


Hopley89 - 23/5/18 at 11:52 AM

You have to turn the throttle bodies around 180 degrees and it will drop the air box down by 70+mm maybe evan 90mm

wow you have changed a lot of items that didnít need to be changed havenít you? i have used all the standard items on my indy and got it to fit under the bonet without a hole in the top!!



quote:
Originally posted by DANMAN
I am in the middle of doing this right now, 1998 919 to a 2005 1000. The biggest issue so far has been dealing with the ridiculous difference in overall height from the 919 to the 1000 with its retardedly huge air box and secondary injectors.
So far it has involved the following:
- Completely new engine cradle.
- Complete rewire including the HISS system, HESD bypass, Exhaust servo bypass & speed sensor mod.
- New custom air box.
- New custom intake trumpets (I have had to lay over the throttle bodies which increased the intake tract length so I made new shorter trumpets from scratch to keep the intake tract as close to original as possible).
- Cooling system changes.
- Exhaust (the newer engines have oval exhaust ports versus the round ones on the older engines). I ended up making adaptors to re-use the old exhaust but will replace the headers completely at a later date.
- New shifting mechanism (the gear shift is in a completely different spot).
- New throttle cable set up.
- New clutch set up from cable to hydraulic.
- New scratch built fuel tank with integration of 1000 factory pump (you will be going from carb to injection so higher fuel pressure).

You will also need a baffled sump and heavy duty clutch set-up as well, I will be purchasing these from AB performance shortly.

The prop shaft adaptor from the 919 will fit and you can re-use your existing prop shaft, although since I was doing such a big job I replaced the back half of mine with a TRT unit instead.

[Edited on 23/5/18 by DANMAN]


Hopley89 - 23/5/18 at 11:55 AM

Sorry is that a cbr1000rr, the air box looks massive in the picture
will be worth the engine change when itís done🙂

quote:
Originally posted by DANMAN
A pic of the engine with air box, note the secondary injectors in the top that need to stay put:




[Edited on 23/5/18 by DANMAN]

[Edited on 23/5/18 by DANMAN]


DANMAN - 23/5/18 at 02:35 PM

Curious about your comment "wow you have changed a lot of items that didnít need to be changed havenít you?". I would say the necessities at a minimum would be the following but would love to know how you would avoid them if you can enlighten me:
- Engine cradle.
- Rewire.
- Cooling system changes (hose rerouting / new hoses to suit the different layout).
- Exhaust, either new headers or adaptors to re-use the old ones.
- New shifting mechanism.
- New throttle cable set up.
- New clutch set up from cable to hydraulic.
- Fuel system, you could get away with a surge tank with the factory 1000 pump built in, I just built a new tank because I wanted the surge tank integrated and was after a bit more capacity over my old one.

An trust me I tried turning the throttle bodies around and the air box as well, it still would have been at least 100mm above the bonnet. Here is a pic through the bonnet scoop and this is with the engine dropped down allowing only 90mm of clearance between the ground and where the bottom of the lower profile AB Performance sump will end up being:

http://i.imgur.com/2h30jFC.jpg
As you can see, if I bolted the throttle bodies onto the head i would be lucky to even get the trumpets on without the secondary injectors that still have to sit above them.

What I ended up having to do (before I have fitted the new trumpets I made):

https://i.imgur.com/WuZJidL.jpg

Obviously the factory air box may be able to be re-used if you have the height under the bonnet but I certainly didn't.

[Edited on 23/5/18 by DANMAN]


Hopley89 - 23/5/18 at 02:40 PM

what engine is it? is it a cbr1000rr??


CosKev3 - 23/5/18 at 06:05 PM

If you look in this thread
https://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/50/viewthread.php?tid=194553
You will see its possible to keep the top injectors and go to a open foam filter


OliilO - 24/5/18 at 09:40 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Hopley89
what engine is it? is it a cbr1000rr??


I think it's a 2005 engine which would explain the different requirements and difficulties.