Hi guys,

Just wanted to introduce myself and my project, which is likely to take the next few years!

I have degrees in materials engineering and fluid/aero dynamics and have worked for Ferrari F1 and Lotus Motorsport previously but have been working in the oil and gas industry for the last 7 years.

I have always admired the Group C cars that used to race at Le Mans etc during the mid and late '80s and even the F1 engined prototype cars in the early 90's. I grew up in a Porsche 956 shaped and liveried bed with a painting of a Porsche 956 at Le Mans hanging over it... I think my parents must have been pre-conditioning me!

I have wanted to design and build me own Group C replica for as long as I can remember and the closest I have got was to scratch build a mid engined spaceframe chassis'd car when I was 19... Since leaving university I have mostly been travelling with work and so have never had the home to get on with a project but now we are back, living in London and settled, I have resurrected the idea!

I have been following the bodywork design thread here:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=43112

but I feel that it might be easier to start with a body in GRP and construct a chassis using those dimensions than start completely from scratch.

I was offered the full bodywork for a Group C Jaguar XJR, in GRP about 5 years ago by Don Miles, who used to race a Jaguar XJR-5, but sadly I had to buy a flat and then start travelling again with work. I will try and get in touch with him again to see if he still has it for sale, although I doubt it! Some of his racing can be seen here:

http://www.groupc-gtpracing.com/racereportsspamay03.htm

The only other body I have come across is from Derek Smith in Canada and is an exact replica of the Porsche 962:

http://members.shaw.ca/p962/p2.html

He has offered to sell me a complete body at what I believe to be a fairly reasonable price, although it would need to be shipped over here, which may be expensive. I can see myself bombarding him with emails over the next few years, so I hope he doesn't get bored of mine! His project has really impressed me and is very similar to what I would like to achieve although I will reduce the complexity.

I did see a full Group C-style body in a kit car magazine in the UK a few (8?) years ago. It was towards the start, in the news section and was priced at something like £600! I wish I had jumped at that, but couldn't at the time. Does anyone recall that article or know of anywhere that I might be able to get such a body?

It looks like a few people have had the same idea as me over the last few years:

http://www.gurneyflap.com/gtprototypes962.html

http://www.slackmotorsport.com/Porsche_962.php

http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php?s=64f7668cbc0d2a038eb42094a13f0eb7&threadid=98865

So hopefully there will be a lot of info out there and plenty of helpful souls! I have more books about car, chassis and engine design than a library, so I hope I am in a good position to get things underway. I have also ordered kb58's Kimini book, which ought to provide useful when the time comes to do some more research.

The basic spec will be:

Body - GRP Group C replica (possibly Porsche 962)
Chassis - Steel tube frame
Suspension - Hopefully use Ultima parts
Brakes - Ultima again hopefully
Steering - Yes, Ultima again
Engine - N/A Quad cam V8... Maybe Lexus

You will see that I am going to see if I can adapt the Ultima stuff to fit a bespoke chassis as I think this will cut down on time, cost and testing since the cars should be a similar proportion and weight etc...

Though I really need to see an Ultima, without its bodywork close up and take some photos - Does anyone have one under construction in the South London area?

I could probably just use the Ultima kit as a whole but I get the impression that the necessary alterations to the main chassis would be so substantial that I might as well save some cost and maybe even time by designing it from scratch (my missus, Lou, is a CAD operator!)... But I am pretty sure that I could 'copy' the front and rear frames of the Ultima, to hold the engine, suspension etc.

I just wanted to name check Fran Hall from RCR here as he has been talking to me and giving me advice over email and his car is something quite similar:

http://www.superlitecars.com/

Any thoughts, help or suggestions are more than welcome!

Many thanks,

Dom

Sounds a really interesting project.

A couple of things come to mind, would Ultima sell you wishbones, steering etc. without a car - many manufacturers are very protective about that sort of thing.

There was a complete Ultima kit for sale in Kitcar or Complete Kitcar, can't remember which for about £6k, if you bought that & could sell the shell on that wouldn't be bad money as that would give you everything needed to build the car, once you'd done with the chassis that could be sold on too - just a thought.

Good luck with it, do keep us informed of how it all goes.

I haven't asked although I don't see buying the suspension etc from Ultima beinga problem as they have a price list with the cost of spares etc although I may go to the factory one weekend and have a look round and a talk with them... The car obviously won;t be in competition with theirs!

I didn't think that that Ultima kit came with the body, I thought it was just the stage 1 chassis, although I think you might be right if a baragin like that came up again... May be worth using as a development tool!

thanks for the support!

Dom

quote:

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Originally posted by Dom9
I was offered the full bodywork for a Group C Jaguar XJR, in GRP about 5 years ago by Don Miles, who used to race a Jaguar XJR-5

---

I thought of you the other day speedyxjs... After reading some of your Jag V12 engine threads I remembered that in the same lock-up that Don used for all his bodywork, he had vast amounts of spares incluidng Group C spec heads and blocks that had been completely unused! Think you might have drooled over them just a little!

I actually have an excellent technical book with loads of photos about the Jag XJR Group C cars, which you would like, but I can't remember the title off the top of my head but a quick Amazon search would throw something up I'm sure!

Go for the Lexus Engine instead of some stoneage american technology

I have toyed with the same idea, ever since I saw the bodyshell (or a replica) of one of the Le Mans winning Mazda's, hanging on the wall of a Dundee Mazda dealership.

http://www.fd3s.net/787B/index.html

Just wrap it in clingfilm and create a mold

I know when Dauer did their 962 road legal cars, they modified the design a little bit, reducing the drag from the original 0.5, to 0.31. I assume they just reconed that you dont need 1000 kg of downforce on a road going car..

There are so many stunning formula C and Le Mans Cars from that era, and to be honest, the don't look that hard to replicate in GRP.

This is the one I was concidering:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/tomlumpy.html

Or with a little more work, the prettiest of them all IMHO:

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/RX-792P.html

That website has got a lot of pics and illustrations of many of the Group C and Le Mans cars as well.

Hope to hear and see a lot more of your project in the future.

[Edited on 16/1/08 by beppesignori]

Thanks Beppe

I'm a big fan of Mulsanne Mike's website and have it bookmarked on every computer I have had at home or at work for as long as I can remember!

There are lots of dimensions and technical detail there... Easily enough to design a body in CAD and then cut out the templates... But all of that would take months whereas buying a body would take one swipe of the credit card, so to speak.

It's interesting the point you make about the replica mazda hanging on the wall of that delearship. There must be hundreds of these things around the world, being used as promotional tools or just collecting dust in a garage... Probably not worth a lot to some but worth a lot to me! The Jaguar bodywork I was referring to was used as a promotional tool as well...

One assumes virtually every Group C car was replicated in GRP for this purpose at some point... these bodies or moulds must be somewhere!

I believe the £600 body I am referring to above was also a Toyota Tom's from the '80s... They banged out some cars!!

Out of interest, I had a job interview at the Bentley Le Mans team... they had some awesome stuff at their factory in Norfolk, the old Audi/ RTN factory I think!

If you need Ultima suspension parts let me know as having had a car I have plenty of contacts to get the bits. IME The factory are very unlikelly to sell you the parts if they know you are not intending to build their kit.

I havn't gone that route though as it is expensive for what it is and unless you are building an Ultimas its not really worth the cost....

As for bodies there is plenty of choice if you know the right people.... I do know a guy who does a car body similar to the porsche GT1 racer.... its not cheap though at around £7k, but that does include the glass etc.
Then of cause there is the option to get bodies similar to the Ultima and various other supercars.

sorry edited to add that unless the body you get is the same dimensions as the Ultima then you can't really use the suspension and steering.

[Edited on 16/1/08 by andygtt]

[Edited on 16/1/08 by andygtt]

Hi Andy, I have read your threads on here and Pistonheads and I hide in the Ultima forum on PH quite regularly and have posted in there before...

I assume you are talking about Arash? I spoke with him a couple of weeks ago as that is the body that I really wanted for a road car but he said he won't produce any more of them, or if he does then they will be one-offs at extortionate cost £20k+ I think, without diving back into my emails!

£7k is certainly in-budget so to speak, although I can't help but think I missed out on bargains with that body for sale in the magazine all those years ago and the Jaguar body. The Porsche 962 bodywork from Derek is certainly that order of cost too... But may not come with the 'glass' and if it does, it's only perspex, which would not be road legal. This isn't a priority but it would be nice to think it could be taken out on the road.

I think what you have done so far and what you are building is fantastic. I believe you used Porsche uprights and purpose built wishbones etc... For simplicity's sake, would you not recommend the Ultima stuff?

If you have any more specific leads about bodywork, feel free to get in touch via the board or on PH (also Dom9). Also, if you ever feel like putting on a garage tour, I would love to come and see your car.

Thanks,

Dom

Edited to add: I would check the suspension geometry and it may need a re-design but I would expect dimensions to be fairly close for width, but that would be the benefit of getting at an Ultima with a tape measure... Once I have got a body and know the dimensions! I could design and weld it all up myself but I am an impatient sod at times!

[Edited on 16/1/08 by Dom9]

Dom, I see the biggest problem with you pursuing this project is, man it makes me want one. I have always fancied the group c cars. What do you have in mind for glass? This has always been something the held me from from focusing on this type of design.

[Edited on 16/1/08 by Rogue Se7ens]

[Edited on 16/1/08 by Rogue Se7ens]

Well you would be more than welcome to come around.... I also have a good mate reasonably local to me who I'm sure would let you see the chasis and take dimesnions.

As a guide I paid someone £3.5k on development of the geometry and help with the chasis design... and yet dispite that the rolling chasis still ended up costing me less than my Ultima chasis cost..... in fact it cost me less than my mates Aeons rolling chasis cost.

This is an idea close to my heart as it was my intention to use Ultima stuff, until I found I could do better for similar money.


more editing to add that the £3.5k did include bits like making the wishbones and some of the uprights etc.

[Edited on 16/1/08 by andygtt]

Wayha - middy section is waking up again with new projects starting.

I will follow you progress with interest Dom

I have quite a few ultima running gear / chassis pics I pinched from a very detailed build diary someone did a while ago, it was a red car. If you don't find it let me have your email and i will send them to you

Some on this thread

Cheers

Fred W B


[Edited on 16/1/08 by Fred W B]

As you can tell, the interest in cars from the Group C era, and cars from before Audi bought LeMans, is massive. I am sure if you commision the Missus to make the drawings, and you spend the time making a mould, you would have people cueing up to make use of it. Sure you would make the money back in no time.

You could then publish the drawings of the chassis on here, and in no time we would have a new forum called LeMans styled cars

Thanks for all the advice and support guys!

Andy, we will have to organise a visit when it is mutually convenient as, in many respects, you have done a very similar thing and it looks like you may have done a lot of the thinking/ research for me! £3.5k doesn't seem like bad money at all to be honest, especially if that included some fabrication work... Not to talk too much about money but taking a week off would 'cost' me almost £3k so I wouldn't mind paying someone to do a lot of the work for me if it means I don't have to take time off... Although I would still like to keep a large hand in the design!

Glass could be tricky Rogue as there is very little (none?) available in that style and I have read the other threads about glass with interest... It may have to be a perspex 962 windscreen and stay off the road, though that is not ideal!

Thanks for the info and kind words Fred, as you know I am an admirer of your work and it was mentioned over email the other day! I will let you know if I need those Ultima files!

Beppe... The CAD work would be fairly easy and I am sure I could afford to get a foam mould milled/ made by a yacht company (my step father has contacts) near Southampton and then get a female made, but I'm not sure I have the time or energy to do it as a business as what I do now is full time and fairly lucrative for me... Plus, my missus would go spare if I poured our house savings into a commercial project...

However, if I bought a body, I'm sure we could arrange something if there was enough interest or if I have to make my own, then maybe it wouldn't be too much hassle to sort other bodies out! I might require Fred's help though!

Thanks guys,

Dom

With regards to the glass, there is a company in Australia that can produce E marked glass to your pattern for not much more than (or in some cases less than...) the cost of a screen in the UK - getting 3 or 4 made up and included on an existing shipment begins to look very attractive!

I'm looking for their contact details at the moment, but my file of contacts has somewhat spread from a single binder to the entire spare room!

[Edited on 16/1/08 by Delinquent]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Delinquent
With regards to the glass, there is a company in Australia that can produce E marked glass to your pattern for not much more than (or in some cases less than...) the cost of a screen in the UK - getting 3 or 4 made up and included on an existing shipment begins to look very attractive!

I'm looking for their contact details at the moment, but my file of contacts has somewhat spread from a single binder to the entire spare room!

[Edited on 16/1/08 by Delinquent]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by andygtt
sounds promising, especially as I recently found that the toyota screen I am using is over £500 from autoglass

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The glass issue could be a big problem especially if I want to take the car on the road but how much really does it cost to get a one-off windscreen made? £1000's? I guess you would probably want at least 2 or 3 though, to make sure that you have spares if/ when one becomes chipped or broken!

How did Dauer (sp?) get their 962's road registered if they didn't have e-marked glass windscreens? Can you just leave the perspex windscreen out for the SVA and 'pretend' it does not use a windscreen?

Frankly, this is probably the least of my worries at this stage!

I got home to find kb58's Kimini book at home... have had a flick through so far but I haven't read anything in depth... Will probably start ploughing through it this weekend!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dom9
The glass issue could be a big problem especially if I want to take the car on the road but how much really does it cost to get a one-off windscreen made? £1000's? I guess you would probably want at least 2 or 3 though, to make sure that you have spares if/ when one becomes chipped or broken!

How did Dauer (sp?) get their 962's road registered if they didn't have e-marked glass windscreens? Can you just leave the perspex windscreen out for the SVA and 'pretend' it does not use a windscreen?

Frankly, this is probably the least of my worries at this stage!

I got home to find kb58's Kimini book at home... have had a flick through so far but I haven't read anything in depth... Will probably start ploughing through it this weekend!

---

Truth be told, I know absolutely nothing about making windscreen moulds, but assume it's not that far removed from making a mould from GRP?!

I have been talking more with Derek Smith, who can supply the P962 GRP body and have asked him for all-in cost for the body including perspex windscreen, light covers, shipping etc... Will post the results when I get it all figured out, but I think it's surprisingly good value.

I have also asked him for some dimensions, or better yet a plan view and side view of the car with dimensions so I can start working out my chassis... If I design the chassis around this body though, I pretty much have to use this body!

My reservation is that, although a chap in France has ordered a complete body from him, there isn't one in this country to go and have a look at etc - I really would be working blind and even though the cost looks bearable, it seems like a lot of money to spend on something you have never seen before. I am guesisng that the total price will come in at around £8k and I wouldn't buy a car off eBay for that without going to look at it.

I have no doubt about the quality of his product as the engineering on his website looks fantastic and he seems like a very smart and nice guy, it would just be nice to have something in this country I can go and look at with a camera and a tape measure before putting pen to paper... On a cheque (check for our friends in the US) that is!

Where are all these Group C promotional GRP bodies??? I am guesisng that Beaulieu will have some cars... In fact, I just found this picture of a Jaguar XJR on their webpage:



Perhaps I need to get up there with a pen and tape measure and get Lou to CAD one of those up... Then again, I did get offered one of those bodies a few years ago, perhaps I need to put more effort into tracking that down again!

Speaking of which, I have some photos of Don's lock-up from when I went for a look. If and when I dig them out I will post them up here.

Dom9, with respect to your wariness about spending £8k on an unknown product, would it be possible to specify the key elements of the body so that the supplier is made aware of your acceptance criteria. A couple of easy ones to define would be weight of materials used, quality of surface finish, basic dimensions. Then it starts to get tricky. You could inspect other similar products from the same supplier or agree an "inspection schedule". If you have a background in petrochem engineering then I expect that you'll recognize the approach.

Cheers,
Puk

Puk, I am actually in no doubt that the body is exactly what I want. I am sure that the material he uses and the quality of the product are superb and probably way beyond 'necessary' fo rmy project as I know he supplies many parts to guys running 'real' 962's... That in itself speaks volumes.

It's more that I would like to see the body first hand, have a look at it from every angle, see how he has fitted it onto his chassis, get a feel for how it goes together etc I don't think my worry has anything to do with the fact that it's quality may not be up to much, it's more that I would worry about having a guy send it all the way here in 2 crates and I don't really want to have any reason to send it back...

Plus, since I still haven't put any effort into looking for anything on this side of the pond (recently) I should probably do that first before committing to buy something from so far away. However, there is always the option of taking a holiday in Canada later this year!

If I used my oil and gas project experience to do this... It would come in way over budget and extremely late

I see your point.

Being allowed a bit of scope creep and so coming in over schedule and budget is half the fun of a hobby project!

As long as her in charge hasn't been given the role of project sponsor ;-)

LOL!

You should have seen her face when I opened kb58's kimini book... She was not too impressed - "You're not building that are you?"...

No... She is yet to see what I am building, but I am my own project sponsor as long as I pay the bills etc at home! However, I am pretty sure that this project will never be allowed to obstruct our holiday fund... Or house moves etc etc!

Since we would like to buy another house towards the end of this year, I don't see this project getting far beyond the drawing board and information gathering stage before we have moved... Unless a deal on a body comes up that I can't turn down, in which case I will have to find somewhere to hide that...

You should see my project, its now turned into my living and is what is funding my "hobby project"...

So if you need a pair of quality prescription glasses then pay us a visit prescription glasses

There are some excellent references for building a model in CAD... Mulsanne Mike's webpage has a lot of detail about the Nissan P35 for example:

Mulsanne's Corner Nissan P35 specification

I have even found a CAD drawing of it with major dimensions... But it is stuck on my hard disk and I am off home, so will try and get it posted up here soon... Problem is that it's too small to make the dimensions out, but I might be able to get one and scale it.

In fact, if you open this web page, these guys would seem to have the original CAD files for a car:

Nissan IMSA GTP CAD files

I guess I will be spending some more hours over the next couple of weeks Googling various combinations of CAD, drawing, Group C, IMSA GTP etc etc

It is amazing what you can find on the web! I'm still not sure of going my own way with designing and making the body but I would be interested to cost it all up...

Night all, Lou and I are off to a bar in Covent Garden for a drink!

Re the pattern making for the glass - they just need a thick heavy duty type GRP mould, very basic and simple!

quote:

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Originally posted by Delinquent

quote:

---

Originally posted by andygtt
sounds promising, especially as I recently found that the toyota screen I am using is over £500 from autoglass

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Andy - don't whatever you do buy Toyota glass from autoglass!!!

They wanted something near £600 for the screen for mine - Toyota main dealer wanted £185 +vat. I phoned Autoglass back to check they didn't actually mean £64 - they laughed, I told them how much Toyota sell it for, was put on hold, on return the helpful sales chap said "in that case we'd like to offer you 40% discount"

erm ?! still put it at almost twice the price of Toyota...

---

I have had custom glass made by perfect glass in Queensland Australia. Cost was $3000 for mould and 4 screens and I had to supply a very accurate FG buck.
There are limitations and I think the 962 screen might be too much 3d curvature for glass.

It does sound like this glass business could be a real problem, although I could stick with perspex and just never take the car on the road.

Would be interested to know whether and if Dauer solved the glass screen issue to make their road-going 962's legal as Fran said that ALL countries required that cars be fitted with a 'glass' windscreen, if they have one fitted at all, to be legal.

I have been speaking with Derek Smith again and, I hope I am not out of line posting this here, but he has given me the prices, which I think are very reasonable for a car of this quality...

*EDIT - Bodywork costs removed on request from Derek*

Scroll down for pictures of Derek's P962 bodywork for sale

Andy, how much has your body cost so far and how much will you expect it to have cost you when it is 'finished'?

That seems quite expensive in kit car terms but we have to remember that it's not a kit car and is produced in very small numbers...

If the rest of the car could be designed and built for a conservative £20k, not including my own labour time, then having a car with the looks of a P962 and awesome performance for a total of say £30k would be awesome... Cheaper than an Ultima I guess?! But not road legal!

He has also said that he would supply me some drawings with dimensions on, but I feel he is a bit worried about supplying them without having sold me anything. I totally understand that as he has spent many years and a lot of money I'm sure, developing his car and I'm sure he would not want anyone to use his work or benefit commercially from what he has done.

So, if I do purchase anything from Derek, I would give him my word that I would never do anything commercial using his body and profit from his work. So, if I get the 962 body - No spare bodies for you guys!

Still, I will spend some more time looking for other avenues as the 962 body seems a bit chicken and egg... I kind of need the body to start work, but don't really want to spend so much up front without knowing how it all goes together... Maybe take Lou for a day out at Beaulieu soon...

[Edited on 21/1/08 by Dom9]

I'm told one of the issues with heavily curved windows is distortion of the view through them particuarly at perimiter where it's bent most.
Whilst this obviously is not an issue at the track it might prove more of a problem on the public road. Anyone here have experience one way or the other?

Looking at Peugots 908 LMP the section of the screen the driver gets to look through is quite flat, the rest of it being blacked out, though it would take some modification of the Group C look this type of thing might be achievable and still maintain an overall group C look.



Or you could always do what I've done not being happy with curved glass available I've taken the extreme opposite view for my car and am going for a 100% flat screen.
It doesn't look too much like a Group C car though.

I love the Pug 908 so much - It was a real step-forward but probably a step too far as it meant costs were spiralling out of control... But what a beautiful car!

In fact, I bought a plastic, Airfix-type, model of it about 10 years ago... I say that because somewhere I have kept the instructions for it and I ought to look for them. The reason I kept them was that the plastic parts are so detailed that it's actually quite a good way of getting a feel for how to start designing and building a car... I could even get some dimensions from the drawings by scaling.

I was thinking to myself that actually designing a body in CAD, maybe even using this software as a basis:

Sportscar design software

(see picture at bottom of that page for CAD-style layout)

Would be good because, being an ex-3d CFD specialist, I could probably build a model in Fluent and actually generate some data for drag and downforce etc quite easily... Which would be pretty cool!

It's just the time and cost of designing and building the plug!

I think you're referring to the 905, I meant the 908 from 2007.

Sorry Doug - I do mean the 905 Evo!

I am not a big fan of anything 'sans' petrol... But the 908 does look fantastic!!

I see what they have done with the screen and it does indeed look very interesting... Trying to pull out of junctions with a load of distortion on a highly curved windscreen would be a nightmare though.

Perhaps you could vary the glass thickness to reduce the effect... Think that would be getting into very expensive territory then though!

I have been talking more with Fran at RCR and the more I think about it, the more difficult it would be to get this thing road registered. If we think about what the SVA regs entail and the fact that no matter how high I raise the car up, I am unlikely to ever be able to get the headlights high to enough to pass that test... I should probably just go ahead and say I am building a track only car and get on with it!

That would instantly get rid of the perspex screen problem as I could purchase one from Derek or use whatever comes with the body I eventually find.

I could also do something silly with the engine and gearbox... I always keep an eye on parts in the race car forums and I have had my eye on one of these for a while... At about £8.5k they seem like excellent value, but they may need quite a lot to get them running, such as dry sump systems etc etc and find a transaxle that would work, but oh my, how good what it be?

New N/A Indy V8

I could totally see my budget spiralling out of control!

Dom9, I didn't mean to guide the discussion just toward the glass problem, just wondered what you had in mind. That 962 body looks quite nice, proper ribbing on the inside, but at 12.7k I would have to keep looking, and Ilmor V8, wow, now we're talking, but then again what is it going to take to get it running and keep it going. Maybe you can ask an IRL pit crew to show up at the track to give a hand. Overall, looks like you are finding a number of options.
Personally, even though it would be a lot of work the Goup C bodies are rather basic in their shape, and if you were to make a plug you could probably use a number of nearly flat panels, not many compound curves, at least it looks to be easier than say some of the 1960s and 70s race cars that others have done.

[Edited on 18/1/08 by Rogue Se7ens]

Okay, you could say I'm baised, but I think that the late 60's pre wing era sports race cars are the last that you could make a replica of to reasonbly run on the road.

Once you get to recent wings and ground effect cars the tiny ground clearance, minimal suspension travel and very high rate springs you would have to run to get the car to look "right" would make them very impractiable on the road.

Still want to see you build this though

Cheers

Fred W B

Thanks guys, no apologies necessary about steering the conversation towards the glass problem... When you look at the headlight issue and the things Fred has just pointed out, it would seem to suggest that the only real way forward is to build a track only car...

Hence the reason for looking at track only engines! Most of the wear comes from high rpm, if you reduced the rpm on the engines and maybe even changed the cams to something slightly better through the mid-range, I imagine you could get a few thousand miles out of those engines as the Indy cars must run 100's of miles on the ovals at full throttle virtually all the way round!

Anyway, that's really only food for thought... It's just that getting one of those to run and he says that he has ECU's etc would appear to cost no more than a nicely built LS7 say, but much, much less weight...

Then again, I guess we would be into custom bellhousings, oil systems, flywheels and clutches etc etc... I think a nicely tuned quad cam V8 would suit this project down to the ground and the Lexus V8's appear very robust and tuneable!

Don't worry, no one will put me off building this, it nmight take a few years though but I will get it moving this year at the very least!

I have wanted to drive a Group C car on the streets since they first came out, but I will say that are not near as sexy as say a T70, P3, or even GT40... I think what I like about the cars is their relatively simple design. Actually the car looks like a big flat block with a tapered nose and windscreen, but they look purpose built. I even prefer the shape of the 962 over the photo of the Pug. But as mentioned the practicality for road use is probably lacking, though if I could find the backing I would build one and drive it.

The Peugeot screens aren't glass either. Specially coated plastic. The coating is a development of what goes on spectacles for the 'anti-scratch' coating, only thicker.

I'm going to build a roadgoing 905 one day. Maybe??

Cheers,
Syd.

How about aiming for for 962 rev1.0 - the track day car to be followed by 962 rev2.0 - the road menace. If Dauer solved the problem then it must be achievable.
As for headlight heights didn't his cars have air rams to raise the ride height for speed bumps & MOTs? EVO tested it years ago but I don't recall the details.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dom9
The glass issue could be a big problem especially if I want to take the car on the road but how much really does it cost to get a one-off windscreen made? £1000's? I guess you would probably want at least 2 or 3 though, to make sure that you have spares if/ when one becomes chipped or broken!

---

Whats the issue with headlamp height?
Whats the SVA requirement?

Here in Australia home of possibly the most PITA set of rules for self construction.
The rule is that for signal, dipped and parking beam they must be between 350mm and 1200mm from the ground (I assume at the bottom edge of the lamp).

Tyre diameter will be ~20" plus clearance for suspension movement and crap build up ( say 4". So that gives a range of 10" to fit the lamps in without having to modify the bodywork to fit the lamps in?

[Edited on 19/1/08 by Doug68]

[Edited on 19/1/08 by Doug68]

Hi Dom9, like the look of this project.

With regards to having a body plug cnc machined, are you familiar with dpcars.net? Dennis' car is a smaller scale but is a scratch designed body.

Keep us posted on your progress.

edit to say Ultimer GTR Windscreens are £566.00 I guess they are road legal.

[Edited on 19/1/08 by Hammerhead]

Syd in other words the stuff we all want to use, but are not allowed to by SVA rules.....

Grtz Thomas

PS Beppe, you're also a dutchman? been reading the KCC forum latley to come up with the lumpy?

There is a heated version of the Ultima windscreen available (not from the factory) for around £450.....

There is also a guy in Florida (steve knows him) who is doing a similar project using the rare Mazda le mans body. I will try to do some digging to see were he is with it.

[Edited on 20/1/08 by andygtt]

hi there some what late to the thread if you do deside to order bits from (http://members.shaw.ca/p962/p2.html). Could you find out how mutch a set of monocouple patterns are as if thay are afordoble and you would include them in youer order I would like a set to look at how pepol have built monocoups.


blake

quote:

---

PS Beppe, you're also a dutchman? been reading the KCC forum latley to come up with the lumpy?

---

Good morning chaps, just reading through the thread as I was offline this weekend... I have gone back and edited the costs of Derek's bodywork as he only likes to give costs once someone has made an enquiry, which is fine with me, and apologies to him.

For those that did see the costs, Derek pointed out to me that the cost I had for shipping was just for the crates, shipping would be even more, though how much more I don't know. So the costs certainly do start to add up, despite the bodywork being fairly reasonable. It definitely shows you that you are better getting something local, though I may end up with no choice.

Which reminds me, it's 10 days 'til I have to pay my tax bill... And the 31st just happens to be Lou's birthday as well! I can see this being an expensive month!

Andy... Let me know if you find out anything more about this car: "There is also a guy in Florida (steve knows him) who is doing a similar project using the rare Mazda le mans body. I will try to do some digging to see were he is with it."

ceebmoj - Do you mean chassis plans for the moncoque?

Beppe - Where abouts in Scotland are you?

Have skimmed through kb58's Kimini book a couple of times this weekend and it's interesting but I am not sure it has taught me anything I haven't learned from other books and misses a lot of the detail, understandably, that say a suspension design book, or chassis design book has...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug68
Whats the issue with headlamp height?
Whats the SVA requirement?

Here in Australia home of possibly the most PITA set of rules for self construction.
The rule is that for signal, dipped and parking beam they must be between 350mm and 1200mm from the ground (I assume at the bottom edge of the lamp).

[Edited on 19/1/08 by Doug68]

---

Good stuff here

quote:

---

Originally posted by Syd Bridge

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug68
Whats the issue with headlamp height?
Whats the SVA requirement?

Here in Australia home of possibly the most PITA set of rules for self construction.
The rule is that for signal, dipped and parking beam they must be between 350mm and 1200mm from the ground (I assume at the bottom edge of the lamp).

[Edited on 19/1/08 by Doug68]

---

Better go check your numbers again Doug, before you make a big blunder.

ADR 13/00- Dipped Beam max ht 1200-min ht 500.

That's 500mm minimum height for headlights, same as for UK Construction and Use regs.

Cheers,
Syd.

---

Rescued attachment Untitled-1.jpg

Hi Dom, I think we spoke quite some time ago. If you want to come and have a nose around our 'toy shop' then give me a shout. It might give you a few ideas.

[Edited on 21/1/08 by Rat Boy]
Rescued attachment UltimaWorkshop2.jpg

Hi Rat boy - (Yob Tar?)

Not sure I remember speaking, but I'm sure there are lots of people I have bothered over the years... My memory is not what it used to be and I apologise for that! Looks like you are Brands Hatch way, I may well take you up on the offer and come and have a look!

I was given this link for a chap who was building a Porsche GT1 - This is some effort:

Porsche GT1 monocoque construction

Still no luck finding any bodywork on this side of the Atlantic but I am bothering more and more people by email and private message, on various forums, everyday! Sadly, my work email seems to be playing up at the moment so I am not sure if people are getting them! Never mind, I do feel like we are making progress...

Really need to sit down and spreadsheet up some finances and get it all costed out then go on a research tour of some Ultima builders, Rat boy's workshop and maybe Andy's garage.

Incidentally, I did find some bodywork for a single seater c-sports car, which is a bit like a Group C car but smaller with a central driving position as the body sits over a single seater:

C-sports bodywork advert

It's only like £350!!! There are some bargains out there... I am pretty sure I can find something useful, for not too much money, it's just the time it takes to do it!

Puk - I think I linked that on the first page didn't I? There are a fair few people around the world thinking along the same lines as me, hopefully they will see this thread and maybe we can share info!?

looking at Ratboys pics it occurs to me you could mod an Ultima body....... I have a few contacts that can sort a body out with similar lines to the Ultima (thats were the heated screen comes from).

Do you actually want a replica or just something with that kind of lines.

Good question Andy... I guess what I want is a body with 'those type of lines'...

Seeing as there were literally hundreds of Group C cars racing around the world, I'm not sure any two were the same... In other words the difference between having an exact replica and having something inspired by a car, is probably nothing.

Some cars were definitely better looking than others and I have this fantastic book about IMSA GTP racers, which has some awesome photos and there are cars there that I have never seen outside o fthose pages, which I would consider much better looking than the 962, but obviously they didn't turn out to be anywhere near as competitive.

The Ultima screen has always struck me as a bit 'fat' and 'upright' compared to the genuine Group C cars such as the 962. But perhaps that's just the way the car looks??? Maybe if the car was a little longer and wider then the screen would actually look 'smaller' and the whole thing would 'work'.

Either way, I am coming round to the idea of having a track only car using the 962 screen... If I then wanted it on the road, I could make a mould and have a glass one made, even if it's expensive...

The other way to do things is to design the body from scratch myself, around the 962 screen. I iwll give it a few more weeks/ months to see what turns up on the bodywork front and if nothing has moved by summer then perhaps I will have a re-think or order a screen from Derek to start playing with.

I wonder whether Ted and the guys at Ultima would be interested in modifying an Ultima chassis to suit Derek's 962 bodywork... We could call that Rev.1 and then I could modify the car into a bespoke 'Rev.2' over time...

Or is that me being impatient and rushing things again?

how about the screen from the minator?

Dom, if you have CAD drawings of the 962 I'll make a 3D model for you in SolidWorks. You can convert it to profiles or maybe be the first person to try out my buck/foam idea see thread

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=81476

I'd enjoy making the model anyway.

quote:

---

I wonder whether Ted and the guys at Ultima would be interested in modifying an Ultima chassis to suit Derek's 962 bodywork... We could call that Rev.1 and then I could modify the car into a bespoke 'Rev.2' over time...

Or is that me being impatient and rushing things again?

---

Thats my experience of Ultima as well, don't ask what they said when I asked if I could fit a BMW V8 instead of the SBC V8.... along the lines of 'goodbye'.

But then you can replicate their rolling chasis from scratch for less so its hardly worth going to them anyhow especially as its only just over 3000lb a deg.

Considering the screen, and maybe even a starting point for the body, what about that "Sport 3000" or "Prosport 3000" I think it was called that was in the mags about 10 years ago? Was built for a spec race series.

Cheers

Fred W B

Edit - google finds this - LM 3000 prosport info

[Edited on 23/1/08 by Fred W B]

LM 3000 - Very like an Ultima though?



[Edited on 23/1/08 by Fred W B]

quote:

---

Originally posted by andygtt
Thats my experience of Ultima as well, don't ask what they said when I asked if I could fit a BMW V8 instead of the SBC V8.... along the lines of 'goodbye'.

---

Looks like there has been some activity while I was away. I had a guy contact me over on the GT40 forum that I linked that Porsche GT1 thread from... Looks like has had similar thoughts (hope you don't mind me posting this here Chris!):

Dom,

You and I apparently have the same obsession. I am in the middle of a GT40 build but as a child of the 70's who went through my automotive awakening in the 80's, I fell under the spell of the 956/962.

As I started the build of my 40, I began to think about doing something of "my own" but never thought I'd have the courage. At this point, I've dabbled enough fabbing up some very basic things (fiberglass and metal) that I am no longer afraid to try it. If I get into trouble there are people around who can bail me out but moreover, it's about learning how to do it. I am enjoying the build of my car as much as I think I will enjoy driving it.

I checked out your post/thread on Locost and it's precisely what I want to do. I have belabored the glass issue for some time now (as I sand the body of my 40 to prep for paint- LOTS of time on my hands). I too have no good answer but I have a few thoughts.

First is what you recognized- a Gp C racer with ground effects, 4 digit spring rates, no suspension travel and 2 inches of ground clearance would not make an overly enjoyable street or touring car (my goal for the project). Second is that most Gp C cockpits look excessively narrow (though I've never actually sat in one). If I am going somewhere with someone else in the car, it will be someone I am comfortable being close to but I might want a little room to breathe. Third is the glass issue. Fourth is there is no one out there who is providing the long tail LM bodywork I like so much on the 962.

Where I am going with all this is that I have arrived at a tentative solution which I will happily share. I would like a Gp C style car but it's likely not to be a replica of anything due to that whole cramped cockpit issue. I will likely pursue the design of my own body.

But that leads me to need a windshield, right? As much as I'd like the fighter cockpit screen of the 962/956 I don't want to live with dreading any crack in the glass. To that end, I've been studying windshields on everything on the road. In the states (I'm in Phoenix, Arizona by the way. I see you're in London), there's the Chrysler PT cruiser. I have come to the conclusion that this windshield offers an appropriate (though not perfect) shape on which to potentially base a Gp C-styled car. It has a nice rake to it, a good arc to the base at the cowl and even rolls back at the roof.

With that as a base, I was thinking of running gear. For this I am leaning toward a C5 setup. Overkill on brakes, excellent parts availability in the states and the uprights are interchangeable front to rear (kind of neat).

This is where things grind to a halt for me as I am occupied with the build of the 40 and need that wrapped up prior to thinking about an undertaking like a scratch build of a bespoke body and chassis.

I found your situation extremely familiar and wanted to let you know there's someone else out there with the same intentions as well and I'd be happy and interested in sharing/swapping/copying ideas with you.

Best of luck with your project!

Chris

I think the PT Cruiser screen is a bit too flat and car-like for what I want... But there may be America-only models or other-country-only models that could provide a screen... I need to put more thought into this!

Andy - You might be onto something with the Minotaur screen. For the benefit of those who may not be familiar with the car:





I actually think that the plan view of the cockpit area is very nice on that car but the front, sides and rear are so, so, so ugly! Maybe pick up one of those and do a complete re-skin? Then again, I could do that to an Ultima. Either way, maybe the Ultima and Minotaur need that extra screen-width, that I have mention as 'fat' before, to comfortably be able to seat 2 people next to each other!?

Benonymous - Thanks for the offer, I might just take you up on that as my missus only has AutoCAD at work and probably shouldn't be drawing cars in a subsea oil and gas consultancy.

Crafty/ Andy - I had heard this about Ultima before. They don't tend to want to stray away from their tried and tested product. Whic is a shame because I think it is probably due an update to both chassis and body. Still, it would be a bloody hard task to get the 962 body onto the Ultima chassis as the radiators are in the middle of the Porsche but front mounted in the Ultima. Not an insurmountable problem, but as Andy says, at that point I might as well go and have a good look round a bare Ultima chassis and just design my own, stiffer chassis.

Fred - Thr Prosport is effectively a re-engineered Ultima, or so I am led to believe. Therefore I guess it is using an identical windscreen. Good thinking though, maybe there are race cars out there running glass instead of plastic?!

Prosport, Ultima and Stealth are all family... mainly only in body though.

I have a good friend close by who is building a Minator who we could go see and you could have a look at the screen in person.... it is IMO a much better sloping screen than the Ultima one.

Andy, it sounds like I will have to organise a visit to your place and have a look at the Minotaur while I am there... I think it's a much better screen for my project and the Minotaur may also be able to provide side windows etc... Which may solve some problems that I haven't even thought about yet!

I would actually like to have the radiator front mounted, with an Ultima-style front end, but more 'sharp' if that makes sense... Then a rear end that is flatter with 'bulges' for the rear wheels and a longer tail...

If I can get some dimensions of the Minotaur screen, I might start sketching something based on a P962, or other Group C car's wheelbase and front and rear track and see how it all fits together and whether its proportions 'look' ok...

I still maintain that it would be easier to buy a full body in GRP, but before I go ahead and commit to purchasing something, I should at least spend some time drawing a body using the Minotaur windscreen, because If I can get it looking nice then I might well go down the mould-making path...

Wow, I really do change my mind a lot... I guess it all hangs on the size and shape of the Minotaur screen... I wonder whether anyone has a picture of it in CAD?

I'd heard somewhere that the Ultima Screen was a rear screen from something.... does anyone know if this is the case, or is it a custom jobbie.

Here's some prosport info...

http://www.lynxaelr1.co.uk/Products-Prosport.htm

That's interesting Crafty because the book I have about IMSA GTP and prototype cars says that the first one to ever raced used the rear windscreen of an early Corvette - Which sounds plausible when you think that those early Stingrays had a very curved rear windscreen...

I wonder what other cars may have a suitable rear screen?

Either way, I think this Minotaur windscreen may well solve our problems. I will try and get some measurements from one... Maybe it would be good to find out who manufactures it and get one straight from the manufacturer as Minotaur may not sell spare ones... Or want to sell one to someone making their own car, even if it isn't a commercial project.

I will see if I can find anything out about this Minotaur screen, such as dimensions etc.

quote:

---

I wonder what other cars may have a suitable rear screen?

---

Surely most cars have toughened rear screens, which wouldn't meet regs? (thought it was laminated only on the front now?)

Not sure about the laminated aspect w.r.t. rear screens... I guess it could well be a problem!

I found the cost of a Minotaur windscreen with a quick Google:

Minotaur parts price list

It's not cheap at £520!!! But may be the cheapest option if I go the home-build route. I really need detailed measurements or a CAD model so I can accurately draw it up and get the body designed.

Those Minotaurs really are not cheap are they?! I'm not sure about the styling either, although I am sure it will appear to some guys and girls!

Might be able to get a screen for one of these:





A friend of mine is doing replica's of the 906 (early stages) and it has to be road legal. He had been asking advice on screens and I know he had made numerous enquiries about getting them made.

Cool thread - like pretty much everybody else I'm interested in building a 962. I've got to get my 914/6 GT project out of the way first though

Tadltd - That could well be an option, thanks for posting that!

I actually bought one of the Kit Car mags last night and there were lots of pictures of a Ferrari P4 replica in there and that also had a windscreen that was road legal and looked very useable, although I think the Porsche one posted above is probably the best so far.

Basically, there could end up with quite a few windscreen ioptions - But I really need to see them and get a feel for how a design would work around them.

Thanks for the comment autohausdolby, I see that you have been in touch with David Slack - Would you mind letting us know what he can supply? You can send me a private message if you prefer?

Don,

try this link, maybe they can supply you with a similar glass :

http://www.taraglass.com/index.html

Italo

[Edited on 24/1/08 by FUORISERIE]

Have I found the screen?

GD sportscars Lola T70 full screen

Cheers

Fred W B

gd sportscars







[Edited on 24/1/08 by Fred W B]

Maybe you could use the front screen of the midtec spyder? I believe it's the rear screen of a Saab.
Don't know about the laminated/hardened issues though.

I've just been on to the Car Builders Solutions website (who were the manufacturers of the Foreman P62)
Have you seen this
http://www.nfauto.co.uk/mk4.htm
As a possibility?

Have you also seen this?
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=81866

not quite what you are after but it is a custom screen.

Thanks for all the replies and comments, it looks like we could sort something out for the windscreen if I go the scratch-build body way... I think it would still be nice to get the screens into CAD to see which ones 'fit' the best and look the most 'realistic' if I design my own.

I did receive a good email from autohausdolby, which leads me to believe that I may well be better off purchasing a complete body from here:

David Slack Porsche 962 replica

As they seem like excellent value and very 'complete' from the sounds of it. Certainly cheaper than other options I have considered so far. The benefit would also be that it may be possible to get chassis dimensions and so create a spaceframe in CAD before ordering the body, which may well be the way forward from a 'financial' risk perspective. i.e. if it takes me a year to design the chassis, I haven't spent £X000's on a body only to have it wasting in a lock up somewhere!

I may well just commit to this body so that I can crack on with the chassis design and get the project moving... Will do another couple of weeks of searching and call the end of February my deadline for starting to put pen to paper, or finger to mouse designing.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dom9ceebmoj - Do you mean chassis plans for the moncoque?

---

Blake - I don't think anyone is going to be willing to sell plans for a monocoque. There is money to be made in recreating the monocoque for the historic racers who keep crashing them and to sell the plans or let them get out into the public domain would mean that 'anyone' could build one and I don't think teh guys who have the plans will let that happen.

I am having enough trouble getting dimensions so that I can start sketching the tube frame... I don't think I have any hope of getting the full dimensions of the monocoque.

However, I was thinking about a folded, bonded and riveted aluminium honeycomb structure. I had a small involvement in a Formula Student car about 7 years ago and they bought this aluminium honeycomb, aluminium skin material and folded it into a monocoque.

I believe there is even a piece of software available that helps you design it and then 'unfolds' it so you can lay a template of your sheet. I seem to remember it being extremely light and very strong. I could then use a tube frame for the engine and rear suspension. Just another idea in my head.

Dave Slack has been very helpful providing me all sorts of information about the 962 parts and bodywork he sells. I am still of the opinion that sourcing something in the UK I can go and look at is a good idea, but since dave is a couple of months behind in building the bodywork, I guess this gives me a couple more months to keep my ear to the ground and have a good think.

Once he has started to produce the bodywork again, if I haven't found something over here then I am likely to just put in an order over that side of the pond.

Afternoon all,

It looks like we might be making some progress.

Dave Slack has been very helpful in providing information about his P962 bodywork. I posted a 'wanted' add on the race car parts site:

Group C body wanted ad

And as you can see, I have had a nice chap called Skip get in touch. We are currently discussing some Spice bodywork he has and I will keep you in the loop about that!

Still no further word from anyone in the UK although I am hoping that Don Miles will see that Ad and get in touch with regards his Jaguar XJR bodywork.

I also managed to have a look at that Nissan GTP CAD drawing that I found. It is a bit difficult to make out but I managed to get a single dimension and scale some others. Have a look at the picture below for what I spent a few minutes doing this morning:



Can everyone see that ok? I might spend some more time getting some other dimensions but as you can see, it would form a good base for building a Solid Works model, if I end up going the scratch built route!

Benonymous - Would you like a go and putting something into Solid Works for me?

I don't fancy getting Lou onto it yet - It's her birthday today! However, it's my birthday in a month, so I might ask her then! LOL!

Even if I don't go the scratch-built route, a Solid Works model of that Nissan may give me a starting point to get on with designing the chassis as I expect that most Group C cars where of 'similar' dimensions... I certainly need somewhere to start! My scaling may not be perfect as it's difficult to work off that drawing but I think everything will be within a couple of mm, so good enough to get the ball rolling!

[Edited on 1/2/08 by Dom9]

http://www.swaqvalley.com/Blueprints/1990_Porsche_962C.jpg

I say: Subaru Legacy 6 cylinder boxer

[Edited on 31/1/08 by ettore bugatti]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dom9
Blake - I don't think anyone is going to be willing to sell plans for a monocoque.

---

not a porsch, but maybe of interest

pics here

Cheers

Fred W B




[Edited on 31/1/08 by Fred W B]

Can everyone see that picture of the Nissan, with dimensions on it that I posted in my previous ramblings? I can see it here but I couldn't see it when I logged in via my iPod Touch last night (Lou was in the shower )

Well, we met Gordon Ramsay and he kissed Lou 4 times last night, so I think that has bought me some more 'budget' for the car, LOL!

Ettore - Thanks for the piccys! I will have to look through that website! Sadly, the front views and the plan views are not to the same scale and without a dimension it's difficult to use them, but I may well be able to find something suitable!

Blake - Sorry, I misunderstood! Yes, they will sell plans, but only with a serious purchase, which yes, I might still make. If so, I would be more than happy to add that to the order. However, I think those guys probably check this thread, so if they don't like the thought of me passing them on, then I'm afraid I will have to abide by their rules. I will, however, make public my chassis design, when it gets drawn up!

Fred - I'm drooling! I love the Nissan P35 - A proper, serious piece of kit! That is such an awesome project and it's for students! Why did I leave university so long ago? The Mulsanne's Corner link I posted with all the Nissan dimensions on it was for the P35... I see our friend autohausdolby posting on there - Hi Matt, so I assume there is probably some good stuff to be read, so I have book-marked it for some weekend reading.

I have had a couple of guys contact me about some Spice bodywork they have for sale, so that means we have found 4 possible bodywork suppliers so far, but I am still not jumping for joy. I can't quite shake the feeling that I haven't found what I'm looking for, quite yet...

Still, I will give it the rest of the month and see where we are at! I may even start sketching a chassis this weekend. I had the pencil and ruler out on a print-off of that Nissan and I think I can knock something up fairly quick.

Kevan from Race Car Warehouse got in touch:

Race Car Warehouse

He has some SERIOUS spares, including wishbones, uprights etc etc, which may cut down the necessity to make my own parts - I think I will put in a visit at some point!

*edited* Correcting my dreadful spelling and grammar... Probably still not 100% perfect, but I am a bit hungover!

[Edited on 1/2/08 by Dom9]

I was wondering where the pic was...! Can't see it here.

Cheers Del, I will see if I can change the permissions on that picture or find another way of posting it up!

What I would give for one of these...



It's a Lola 92/10 I believe... Only a few made I think, maybe not many at all actually, so it would be impossible to get the bodywork and it would all be carbon and mega money, but it does make me want to go the scratch-built route again!

Beautiful!

*edit* Can you see the dimensioned picture of the Nissan now? I have put it on another hosting website and I did it from another computer to make sure I wasn't logged in here. In other words, I can see it, so I hope you all can see it!

[Edited on 1/2/08 by Dom9]

Can see the picture now, but to be honest it's not great - I certainly wouldn't fancy trying to recreate the car from it!

That lola is stunning - though looking at it I don't think I'd bother going to the effort of designing my own chassis to build it, looks from that like you could practically drop the body over an Ultima chassis!

You'd want some form of adjustable suspension though for it to be road useable - not exactly road friendly ride height but you wouldn't want it permanently raised, a lot of its looks come from its stance IMO

[Edited on 1/2/08 by Delinquent]

Del - I wouldn't try 'recreating' a car using those pictures, but it would give me a starting point to locate all the components and get a feel for where everything has to be, under the body of a Gr.C/ GTP car.

To be honest, I think an Ultima is probably a little too short and a little too narrow to find under a Gr.C car body. It would take a fair bit of work to stretch it in all directions, so I think i might as well start from scratch - Unless someone knows different?

For sheer simplicities sake, I would love it if I could just find a body and drop it on an Ultima chassis as it would save years of effort, work straight out of the box and be generally easier and I would still get the satisfaction of building it. Then, once that was is up and running I will have my toy to play with and I could take all the time in the world to play at designing my own chassis etc from scratch.

I haave all but given up on the car being road useable so I am not too bothered about the suspension being any more adjustable than it is on say a Radical. I will probably go and take a look at Kevan's parts once I have done a chassis design and see what wishbones, hubs, brakes etc he has that could be used. If there is something within a few mm then I could alter the chassis as appropriate.

Will the roll centre be exactly where I want it? Probably not and it may not work 'perfectly' but I am pretty sure that I will be able to find something suitable and I will check all the dimensions in my suspension simulator to ensure I won't get thrown off the track after I hit a bump!

Del - I am very interested in your build and the possible carbon monocoque etc. Have you done any more work recently? I would love to see more about the project!

Fair point - it'll certainly give you that no problem.

Andy would be better versed on the Ultima chassis so I may be about to sprout dubious BS, but from memory I don't think it would be difficult to stretch about a bit if it came to that.

Haven't really achieved much recently on my project. Unfortunately I've managed to do a bit of serious mischief to myself so won't be doing any more on it for at least a few months till the physio starts to (hopefully!) show rewards.

Here is where it's currently at - there are a fair few bits missing from the pic that are fairly well sorted, I'd just finished redesigning them but not updated the files.

thanks alot thats all I was hoping for.

Have you seen this on Pistonheads
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/359967.htm
Seems a bit pricey but it does depend on whats included.

I can see the Nissan pics but they're only suitable for making a basic look-alike model out of. Not enough detail. If you want to scratch build, you could basically start with a set of Group C dimensions, track wheelbase, wheel offsets and go from there. It's probably a good idea to abandon any road car aspirations because the passenger compartments on all the Grp C cars I have seen are only token two seaters.

Morning all - I hope everyone had a good weekend.

Yeah, the Nissan pics were only posted so I could get an idea of dimensions. It wouldn't be used for an 'exact' replica or anything, merely as a 'starting point' to begin sketching something out!

Andy - do you know how those dimensions compare with an Ultima? I assume that the Ultima has a much shorter wheelbase and is slightly more narrow.

I have also received some other good information, so I will try and make some progress on the chassis in next few weeks as I am desperate to start getting something down on paper. After an initial flurry of info about potential bodywork, that trail appears to have gone a bit quiet, but I will give it the rest of the month before committing to doing 'my own thing'.

Looking at the Nissan pic the real interesting dim is the 'Thickness' of the thing, 926mm is thin! I wonder how tall there driver was (a lot of pro drivers are midgets anyway) I've manged to get down to 972mm.

There's 2 or 3 things stopping going any thinner...

1. Getting a seat that works with the amount recline needed. I've given up on finding so I like & can afford so I'll be making my own.
2. Being comfortable sitting with a large recline (In Australia theres a 30 deg max layback reg for road cars).
3. Making the ROPS work i.e. not get your noggin crushed when its all upside down.

ACO rules state a minimum 920mm height for the rear roll over structure for closed cars which is probably with ~40mm (20mm plank & some clearance) ground clearance?
So an absolute practical minimum for a road car with 100mm clearance is going to be about 980mm, I've ended up at 1072mm coincidentally the Ultima GTR is quoted at 1070mm (This is bizarre as I'd aimed at 40" but it had to grow to make it work and I'd not looked at the Ultima dims closely before) and their Sports model was quoted at 1100mm.

Not sure what it all means, other than a true closed LMP car is a mighty cramped place to be.

The more I talk to people, the more I think that it will be very tight squeeze, especially for a man of my stature... But there was never really the intention of carrying 2 people in comfort.

I guess you can have the roof as low as you like, depending on how reclined you mind sitting! It may not be comfortable but tipping yourslef back 30 degrees would lower the roofline substantially... I guess you don't need to owrry about submarining if you have a 6-point harness on?

I guess the GT40 was, give or take, 40" off the floor but I struggle with a helmet on in an Exige!

Before anything gets built, I will make a wooden mock up of the chassis to ensure that I fit! I can certainly see that a bespoke seat, or bag seat will be a necessity.

Del - Your car looks fantastic by the way. I think the 3-seater option is about to become very popular. I always wonder why no one ever took moulds off a McLaren F1 and installed a BMW V12... I'm sure it would be complicated and expensive, but surely someone could have doen a spaceframe chassis or Fran at RCR could do one of his ally chassis's.

Schrodinger - That car looks cool, but perhaps on the pricey side!

Another useful link from the ever helpful Chris K:



Gunnar Racing Porsche 962 recreation spaceframe

It looks like there may be a few spaceframe 962's about... This one is good inspiration as it uses the original body and suspension etc but it's a fairly simple square tube spaceframe.

I have been sketching a chassis over that Nissan CAD picture and I already think I need to move to 3d CAD to get a better feel for it (was bored at work so got quite far).

ANYONE KNOW OF ANY FREE 3d CAD-type software I can download? It doesn't need to be particularly 'good' just something I don't need a license for (I don't want to get Lou doing anything on AutoCAD at work until I have finalised my design) and will allow me to design a spaceframe and could be exported into something better at a later date.

Sorry for so many replies, links and pictures. I am semi-using this thread as my official resource so I can store my thinking and much of my research in one place - I hope it is keeping some of you amused!

This any use
http://www.vectorengineer.com/
and Google does
http://www.sketchup.com/

AutoCad IMHO is fairly crap for this sort of task.

Do what a lot of other people have done and download a dodgy copy of SolidWorks, which comes complete with FEA and CFD.

Thanks for the replies chaps, will look at downloading something this weekend... I'm not too familiar with these bit torrent sites etc although I guess I should learn now that I have an iPod Touch and spent about £50 on software and films already!

The chaps who built that 962 chassis have been in touch... They still have that project and another chassis apparently. I will try and find out why it has been still-born though.

I agree on the comments re: ACAD. Luckily I live in Hong Kong, the land of the pirated software. I got hold of a copy of SW, one of ProE and one of 3Dmax.... USD5 bucks a pop.

After playing with them I am so impressed with SW that I am thinking of changing our company software to SW. We currently use ACAD (legally) for construction work, but the SW features are awesome, especially for 3D.

There's a few good forums and a few good books with tutorials. I bought this one ... seems like a good one

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1428353011

Cheers Crafty,

I am familiar with SW but have never used it myself... think I will try and use one of those 'free' pieces of software over the weekend to do some sketches.

then, once I am happy with the design, I will see about re-drawing it (or importing it) into one of the more mainstream packages!

I wouldn't mind a trip to HK with Lou, so i might see about doing that later in the year

In fact, using the benefit of the 'work' IT connection and downloading both the 'free' CAD software tool now... So I will have a go with both and let you know how it comes out!

*edit* Thanks to Schrodinger for the links!

[Edited on 5/2/08 by Dom9]

Well chaps - I have had a look at the Vector Engineering 'free' software and it doesn't look that useful without the Pro-Tools, which you need to pay for. Without looking at the site, I think they are only $20, so I might take a look at doing that.

Left the Google SketchUp 6 downloading over lunch only to find that it doesn't appear to have saved it anywhere on my system, so I am giving it another go now and will report back when I have had a play!

Lou told me to bring home what I have sketched for the Nissan chassis for her to have a look at as she is bored at work, but I think I may be better off doing it myself during the 'conceptual' phase - Need to keep a happy home and we pretty much work together as it is!

I have spoken with Kevin from Gunnar Racing, who produced the steel spaceframe 962 chassis I posted above. He is willing to sell his spare one, but it will cost a similar order to the body and that is without any suspension parts and it would require a fair bit of modification to use my non-race derived, non-load bearing engine and transmission etc...

It could be good value for someone, but I know I have the skill set to be able to design my own, so I might as well give it a go. I might need to find a source for all the machining though...

In fact, isn't there some web-base docmpany who have a bit of CAD software on their page and you can design what you want and then it automatically quotes you how much it will be?! I wonder what a whole chassis would cost using that method? I am not sure I have the time, space or skills necessary to design and build teh whole lot!

*edit* Found it here:

e Machine Shop

And it has software - May be useful for some people here?

AndyGTT - Did you do all your own fabrication?

Still no further news on bodies... The 3 or 4 leads I had have appeared to dry up a bit, but I will give them another week or so, in case they are sourcing parts and getting it all priced up.

[Edited on 5/2/08 by Dom9]

Dom, if you would like to send me a copy of your sketches and basic dimensions, I could at least get you started with a Solidworks model. I've been following the thread and this may even help me think out a midi project I've had in mind.

Thanks for the offer Rogue!

Current sketches are far too 'sketchy' to send to anyone at the moment,but I will see what I can do in this software this weekend and then send you over what I have done!

I would appreciate that and I am guessing that I could probably export it from one of these pieces of software to something SW friendly...!? I will find out I'm sure.

I won't do anything 'firm' for the chassis yet though, really just use a 'generic' design until I can find a body... I don;t want to waste hours of my time and everyone elses doing a super-detailed chassis model if it then needs loads of alterations to fit the body!

If w ecan get something posted up here in the next couple fo weeks - You can all comment on the design and let me know what you think!

No problem Dom, it sounds like a fun project. If you are working in a 3d program, check if it can export .iges, for 2d dxf or dwg will work.

To be honest though I enjoy the frame design process, I really specialize more in the body design so would definitely be willing to give you a hand in that.

I tried the eMachineShop 2D software & it drove me nutty. Better I think to draft somewhere else and then paste into it I think, but I expect thats just me.

Solid Edge do a free 2D CAD package. In 2D CAD terms its a pro level package and the drawings produced by it can be used as the basis for 3D design in SolidEdge
Linky . These drawings cant be used in SolidWorks I believe.

Because its relationship based its also good for creating parametric designs which is what you need for doing suspension for example.

I tried eMAchine shop, it is a web front end for a bunch of independent machine shops. I found that for my part (a 2D dural bracket for mounting new Brembo brake calipers onto an old Ducati) I could import it from AutoCAD. But the prices were not competitive - it might have been better if I were ordering 15 off though.

Doug - I wasn't sure if that was a typo in your message - is SolidEdge compatible with SolidWorks?

Dom if you pursue the bonded composite chassis route then I have been searching out suitable adhesives (I'm going that route for a 7 chassis). There are several structural adhesives that cure at room temperature and which do not require the joint surfaces to be etched before application. Ciba sell something under the Araldite brand, which is basically a development of the adhesive used on the Elise. Lord Adhesives offer something with similar properties but which includes microscopic glass beads in the mix to ensure that the minimum bond thickness is developed (joints will fail if the adhesive is squeezed from the joint creating a bond thickness is too low).

Dom how were the joints formed on your student racer, and how tough were they in practice?

Cheers,
Puk

[Edited on 6/2/08 by Puk]

Dom, I don't remember reading about these guys yet, http://www.diasio.com/ but that have an interesting product, a little out of proportion, but some decent pics of frames and components. Another resource with some specs is http://www.mulsannescorner.com/

As far as I'm aware the 2D drafting environment from SolidEdge is not compatible with SolidWorks in anyway.
The 2D drafting of SolidEdge however is used in 3D SolidEdge, which is what I've personally used to do my car.
These 2 products are from competing organizations Siemens and Dassault so its not unexpected.

BTW all of the above are crap for doing body design for which you should use RhinoCAD, Lightwave(?) or if you want to be a pro Alias Studio (Studio Tools) there's a free full feature personal learning edition of this one BTW, but its really, really I mean really hard to learn.

Thanks for clarifying that Doug, I think that I'll persevere with converting my ACAD habits into SolidWorks. Despite your advice regarding Rhino CAD I'm hoping to do the body design in SW too - I just don't fancy having to install and learn a third CAD package. I'm taking heart from Dennis on http://www.dpcars.net/ who designed his car body using SW so it must be doable with effort.

Cheers,
Puk

Jeez - My spelling in that last post was terrible, I must learn to take more care when typing!

Thanks Rogue - I can see me bombarding you with loads of drawings and sketches, you have no idea what you have done, LOL! However, I really ought to get a handle of at least one piece of software so I can sort the detail myself!

I remember looking at the Diasio website years and years ago - Those cars look quite call but badly out of proportion! However, the windscreen looks genuine and may provide an alternative to some of the others we have been looking at.

Mulsannes Corner is an excellent website - Possibly my favourite of all the sites I frequent! I did email Mike a couple fo weeks back but I haven't heard anything back from him, but I am sure he is a busy man.

Puk - As for bonded monocoques... I have had this idea in my head for years, but I am not sure I will ever go that route to be honest! I like the idea as a rev.2 or 2nd phase car, to try something different but I think I am safer in the first instance going with the spaceframe.

The FSAE car was bonded along the folds and just had a single 'join' along the top of the chassis, like forming a tube out of a sheet. To be honest, that was skinned and rivetted, so who knows what strength the adhesive gave, in a way, I doubt it needed any strength being that it was a single join.

Derek Smith, who I have discussed on here before as a possible bodywork supplier, has been in touch. Apparently he designed and built the Gunnar Racing steel spaceframe posted above and is willing to sell the drawings, which is good. I won't go into more details or prices here as I don't want to post anything in the public domain he is not comfortable with.

If I used the chassis drawings as a base, drew them up in CAD and altered the suspension pick up points and added a rear subframe for the engine/ transX and maybe swapped to round tube, I think I could have something together pretty sharp-ish! Which would be good as it would speed the process up and be guaranteed to fit the 962 bodywork he and Dave supply... I will investigate further.

Thanks for the CAD advice Doug!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Puk
Thanks for clarifying that Doug, I think that I'll persevere with converting my ACAD habits into SolidWorks. Despite your advice regarding Rhino CAD I'm hoping to do the body design in SW too - I just don't fancy having to install and learn a third CAD package. I'm taking heart from Dennis on http://www.dpcars.net/ who designed his car body using SW so it must be doable with effort.

Cheers,
Puk

---

I agree. Rhino is a big app. Unless you have lots of spare time to teach yourself how to use it I'd say its too complex for just one job. 962 bodywork would be doable in SW.

I'm by no means an expert but the surface modeling features are sufficiently developed to do the job.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Benonymous
I agree. Rhino is a big app. Unless you have lots of spare time to teach yourself how to use it I'd say its too complex for just one job. 962 bodywork would be doable in SW.

I'm by no means an expert but the surface modeling features are sufficiently developed to do the job.

---

Sorry guys - Work is a nightmare at the moment so I ahve made no progress whatsoever!

Haven't really heard anymore about body availability so everything is on hold for now... I may be going to look at some Porsche 996's at the weekend, so some budget may well disappear there now!

Why did work have to get so busy?! Don't worry, this project will chug along in the background!

No sooner do I find a Porsche 996 in the spec I want, locally than I get an email from Don Miles (check my very 1st post).

Just in the nick of time, as they say! I have had a bit of a difficult time at home recently and had to re-assess whether a big project like this was something that I should be throwing time and money at, but things look to be resolving themselves now...

I just need to look at my finances and see if I can afford to get this project on the move and the Porsche....

Anyway... If Don has the same stuff that I saw originally (I am yet to email him back, but will do now) it might make life a lot easier.

Since the central tub was GRP, it may only require front and rear frames to be constructed (and roll cage I guess), which may reduce costs and speed up construction a fair whack. The only problem is: Is the GRP monocoque strong enough as I doubt anyone will know how it was constructed... It would at least provide accurate dimensions for the chassis though if I think it is unsuitable!

Hope everything is going well for you guys! I will keep you updated!

Dom

Still haven't heard back from Don...

So I now own a black Porsche 996...

Will still progress this in the background!

Well gents, today is my birthday so I am picking up my Porsche this afternoon, which is exciting! However, I have kept this project on the back burner and have been re-reading a lot of my Group C books and the Jag Group C car technical stuff...

I dug these photos out from when I went to look at the GRP chassis and body parts all those years ago...







They were scanned in black and white so the detail isn't great but you get the general idea! The chassis is the big, white thing with the windscreen in case anyone can't see it (also, look at the Group C Jag V12 cylinder heads in the foreground!)...

I emailed Don and he has not replied but I asked him whether he thinks the GRP chassis could actually be load bearing and take suspension etc at the front and a rear spaceframe for the engine and rear suspension etc... I am not familiar with GRP monocoques etc so I am not sure how to tell how stiff it is or whether it would crack at the first sign of acceleration!

What do you gusy think, looking at it? Difficult to make any judgements just from these photos but he has tonnes and tonnes of bodywork! Or maybe a lot of it has gone now - It has been years after all!!!

Cool photos

Cheers Mate, Long time no speak!

Sorry - I haven't been very active on here recently!

I spoke with Don and sadly he sold that chassis some time ago. He still has the tooling to make new ones, but I think this is going to be expensive.

If truth be told, all the trails have gone quiet on bodywork etc so I have kind of put this on the backburner whilst I enjoy the 911 and knuckle down to some projects at work.

We have also been looking at buying another house, so I didn't want to tie-up any more money! We should knwo where we are at with all that soon and I can get onto this again!!!

I'm in a similar position as my 914 is absorbing money like a sponge. £28 for a bolt and washer from the local Porsche dealer

And that's with trade discount! I can't wait until I get to the actual expensive part of the restoration. Twin plug heads are not cheap

I'm erring on the side of doing a full scratch build now as well - my better half caught me measuring up the living room the other day to see if I could build the buck in there instead of at work

Did anyone make any progress on the Group C style car ?

Put simply John... Not me!

My 911 takes up a fair bit of my income and we have now sold the flat in Putney and have had an offer accepted on a new build in Wandsworth... But we can't get in there until mid-January at best.

I think this project is going to be on hold for quite some time, especially since Don had sold most of the parts i wanted.

To be honest, I have spent a lot of time daydreaming about one of Fran's RCR SLC's... With an Audi V10... Or even a Porsche 911 GT1 replica, built using my 996 as its base, but with an Audi V10!

I have an Audi V10 fetish after seeing some guy build one for an Ultima that was putting out 600bhp and was fairly standard!

It will still happen, one day! At least we now have AutoCAD and my missus has even better CAD skills - Should be laughing in another year or so!

So did you ever get a project to start ?

Regards Don Miles

Don, great to see you on here! I hope you don't mind me name checking you on here, I expect everyone else will bombard you with questions now, looking at your 'garage'...

I didn't know you had an R390... Drool!

Have a I got anywhere, put simply... No!

I am completing on my house sale on Friday (thank goodness) and will complete on my new house purchse on the 23rd (apparently, will believe it when I see it).

I am currently getting quotes in for work to my 911, including rebuilding the brakes, fitting adjustable suspension etc etc so, you can imagine, that is taking a fair bit of the 'budget' I could allocate to this project. Of course, if the right thing was to come along, I would probably shelve that for now... The Autofarm 3.7 engine conversion is calling me though!

Fran keeps threatening to make a 962 if I show him the money, but I am not sure I could stump up half the cost up front, having just moved. I think I would be more interested in spreading the cost over a longer duration...

I know there are a few people who read this thread but don't necessarily post and I had an email today from a chap who may have the bodywork I want

However, general concensus seems to be that I would not fit in that car with the chassis that was designed to go underneath it, so it may be a showstopper... As you know, I am not the smallest man. If that does work out though (and we ar enot even 1% down the line of even talking about it) I think I would want to go bespoke on the chassis etc to spread the cost... And i would need to find storage!

The Group C idea is still very much on, but I am definitely erring more to GT1-style cars now such as the 911 GT1 (I believe Nick Dames could build one from my 996 as a base, although that is not confirmed) or even... An R390, if you have moulds

How is your 'thinking' coming along with regards Group C cars? you are clearly a lot further down the line than me and have access to most of the parts I guess!? i was actually wondering how you were getting on the other day...

Kind regards, Dom

I have been sent these pictures by Tim, who is looking at selling his project. I hope he doesn't mind me posting them up here, but it might be a good way of advertising to a wider audience. Tim, I have tried to email you back but I am getting 'delivery failure notifications'.

I would absolutely LOVE this bodywork, it is quite possibly one of the coolest/ best looking modern racers! However, with the house move etc, I am not sure I will be able to afford it as Tim actually has a lot of parts such as an Ultima chassis with some modifications to lower the floor, move the firewall back and lift the body 20mm offf the chassis... And I think he has some brakes, wheels etc.

So, as a package, he has probably 75% of the car - It would just need finishing.

Here are some pictures:

This is what the car Porsche raced looked like



This is the car that Tim has











Actually, I just found the list of parts that Tim has:

Nose section in KevlarCenter section in GRPRear section in GRP / Carbon fibreFront splitter in carbon fibreDoors (two sets) and outer skinsRear wing (but with no uprights or end caps)Front and rear lightsGlass front windscreenSmoked side windows (profiled but need cutting out) Ultima GTR chassis, roll cage removed and awaiting new cage when body isin final position. To get over the limited amount of space inside, I decided to space thebody 20mm off of the chassis, drop the seat floors by 40mm and I've hadthe rear bulkhead of the center section dropped back by about 100mm+ toallow seats to recline more. For the chassis, I have wishbones, uprights, hubs (will needre-manufacturing for the brake / wheel combo I was going to run), Brakes(Aston Martin Vanquish setup, 380mm front, 355mm rear inc brembo handbrakecalipers), Wheels and tyres, steering rack, steering column, steeringwheel, seats, fuel tanks x2, radiator, wiring loom, gear linkage,coilovers, fuel senders, fuel pumps, Chevrolet 5.7 litre V8, adaptorplate, Porsche G50 5 speed gearbox, driveshafts.

This would make such a good base for me, but I think I would want the bespoke chassis and i am sure that Tim will want to sell the body and chassis as one package, but when his email is working again, hopefully he will let me know more.

Look flippin awesome!

Hi Dom, thanks again for your help; finally got an account on here!

Cheers,
Tim.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pointblank
Hi Dom, thanks again for your help; finally got an account on here!

Cheers,
Tim.

---

Still hoping that Tim will reply about his car, posted above, soon!

This looks interesting:

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=19416

South African 962 replica for £75k.

Have started a new consulting company here, on the back of winning a big job, so I ought to have some spare cash in the next year! This needs to happen soon!

What I find particularly interesting is they have the windscreen and side glass made locally. I'd love to make a Group-C style car, but I keep running into the windscreen problem... Hope they go online soon so I can get some more info from these guys!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dom9
Don, great to see you on here! I hope you don't mind me name checking you on here, I expect everyone else will bombard you with questions now, looking at your 'garage'...

I didn't know you had an R390... Drool!

Have a I got anywhere, put simply... No!

I am completing on my house sale on Friday (thank goodness) and will complete on my new house purchse on the 23rd (apparently, will believe it when I see it).

I am currently getting quotes in for work to my 911, including rebuilding the brakes, fitting adjustable suspension etc etc so, you can imagine, that is taking a fair bit of the 'budget' I could allocate to this project. Of course, if the right thing was to come along, I would probably shelve that for now... The Autofarm 3.7 engine conversion is calling me though!

Fran keeps threatening to make a 962 if I show him the money, but I am not sure I could stump up half the cost up front, having just moved. I think I would be more interested in spreading the cost over a longer duration...

I know there are a few people who read this thread but don't necessarily post and I had an email today from a chap who may have the bodywork I want

However, general concensus seems to be that I would not fit in that car with the chassis that was designed to go underneath it, so it may be a showstopper... As you know, I am not the smallest man. If that does work out though (and we ar enot even 1% down the line of even talking about it) I think I would want to go bespoke on the chassis etc to spread the cost... And i would need to find storage!

The Group C idea is still very much on, but I am definitely erring more to GT1-style cars now such as the 911 GT1 (I believe Nick Dames could build one from my 996 as a base, although that is not confirmed) or even... An R390, if you have moulds

How is your 'thinking' coming along with regards Group C cars? you are clearly a lot further down the line than me and have access to most of the parts I guess!? i was actually wondering how you were getting on the other day...

Kind regards, Dom

---

I would love a modern version of Moby Dick... Use a 996 (now quite cheap) as a base, with a crazy wide front/ rear and a low nose etc!

I may well have to take myself off to that museum, I can see it being my missus worst nightmare!

Those Mobil GT1's were just the ants pants for looks weren't they!

http://www.race-car-replicas.com.au/rcr917.html

quote:

---

Originally posted by rpmagazine
http://www.race-car-replicas.com.au/rcr917.html

---

Cool pictures

[Edited on 5/2/10 by autohausdolby]

The time has come to sell up, wonder if this is of any interest to anyone on here?

http://pistonheads.com/sales/2203061.htm

Cheers,
Tim.

Oops, change of link:

http://pistonheads.com/sales/2203061.htm

Cheers,
Tim.

Dom, not touched base for ages, have you decided on the shape or chassis etc yet?

Hi Andy et al...

Sorry I havent been on here for ages!

I now live in Singapore, so that has kind of put a stop to any car building activities!

I have been out here for about 8 months, so the whole of last year was pretty much wiped out.

Will no doubt stay here for a few years now (quality of life is fantastic and <10% tax is better than >40%) despite Lou having moved out with me and then moved home i.e. no more missus Dom9.

We shall see what the future holds though as we still talk (probably far too often).

I still have my 911, but that is in storage at Autofarm and will I certainly do something when I come home as I have a savings plan in place to allow me to do so, quite deliberately!

Hope the GTT is coming together, Andy, and update some of your threads on PH (which is the only car forum I tend to be on, these days).