Hello everyone.
I'm planning a lightweight single seater for road/track use and am not sure on what transaxle to use.
I'm planning on using a 1.0 litre engine with a puny 100 - 120 hp/lb/ft and so I feel the Audi/subaru boxes are too over engineered and heavy for my application. Also too bulky as I require a 'slim' transaxle.
My questions are:
Has there been any small engined car built with a transaxle within the last 10 years? A japanese kei car maybe? I can't think of any.
Am I limited to using an upside down old VW or imp unit? I believe the beetle transaxle weighs 29kg, any idea on the imp box weight?
Anyone know which is most reliable, compact, has best gear change etc?
Am I overlooking another classic transaxle?
Please help!

Bit more than ten years ago but you often see them on e-bay. look like this.
Same as Alfa 33, you may even get a nifty little flat four (105bhp) 1500 engine to go with it

Hi Robroy...I'm assuming you are meaning a longditudinal (N/S) transaxle? when you say "Has there been any small engined car built with a transaxle within the last 10 years? "..otherwise the answer is actually, yes, loads of them if you include transverse (E/W) transaxles.

I suspect a VW or variant thereof is your best bet.

Thanks.
Any idea how much it weighs and the width from cv joint to cv joint with/without the inboard brakes?
Also, is there any particular model or year of gearbox that is best, or were they pretty much the same from sud to 33?
I very much like Italian engineering.
I currently have a spare Lancia Fulvia transaxle, but it's too heavy (45kg ish) and too wide at 360mm!

Renault 25?

My first car was an Alfasud Sprint, lovely car ,std ratios close , the Alfasuds had inboard brakes , but I think the 33's went outboard, backward step if you ask me ! sorry cant help with dimensions or weight , but I do know that Subaru boxes are heavy

Imp boxes still appear on ebay, plus their were a few upgrades and tweaks for them.

Off on a bit of a tangent but
Skoda? 130 rapid etc
Citroen 2cv, GS, DS,
The DS box was used by lotus in the early days.

If I remember correctly, you don't need to turn the VW Beetle transaxle upside down, you can remove the crownwheel and fit it on the other side. Pretty sure I recall somebody doing it, some time ago though. Worth looking into. HTH Cheers Ray

The obvious answer is get a Hewland! A good used T9 5-speed will cost about £1400. Not exactly low-cost I know, but quality and versatility never is.

I would have thought the 5 speed Citroen DS - GS would be a perfect unit.
5th was definitely an overdrive gear, but gave a remarkably high cruising speed on the one we used to have.
This probably wouldn't be an issue as I expect you'd use smaller diameter wheels.

An older "small" transaxle that is correctly orientated for longitudinal mounting will be from an 4 cylinder audi 80. I believe that you can get a 5 speed, but most were 4 speed?

It is smaller than the audi 016 usually used in GT40's etc that comes from the 5 cylinder audis

Cheers

Fred W B



[Edited on 1/2/08 by Fred W B]

One thing to take into account is the available ratios. If you build a light weight car with a regular saloon transmission then you will find that you want closer ratios, so one thing you should consider is the availability of alternative ratios and at what cost. My experience is limited to the old VW box. These are not too expensive, Not heavy, very strong, can be easily converted to mid engine layout and there is a ready market for alternative ratios for 3rd and 4th gears (lower than std ratios). But if you plan small diameter wheels (less than 600mm) you will find you are doing 5,000 rpm down the highway at 100 kph in top gear of your close ratio box. This is a pain.

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Originally posted by Memphis Twin
The obvious answer is get a Hewland! A good used T9 5-speed will cost about £1400. Not exactly low-cost I know, but quality and versatility never is.

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Originally posted by Delinquent

quote:

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Originally posted by Memphis Twin
The obvious answer is get a Hewland! A good used T9 5-speed will cost about £1400. Not exactly low-cost I know, but quality and versatility never is.

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You mean an expensive VW box then

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Thanks for all the responses!
The engine is currently likely to be a Daihatsu 3-cylinder turbo, although I'm keeping an eye on newer engines like the Toyota VVTi 3-cyl or the Fiat twin coming in 2009. (I like small engines!)
I was hoping to have a gearbox quieter than the engine. Has anybody driven long road journeys with a Hewland equipped car. Are they unbearable?
I've also heard the old Hewland and VW are 'similar'. Are they dimensionally similar, in which case I could build up my car with a VW unit, and swap to a Hewland when I'm richer?
I shall investigate the other alternatives suggested.

Early Hewlands (Mk8 + 9) used the VW casing so are dimensionally identical. They are noisier than a helical/synchro type gearbox because of the straight cut gears, but it is actually a very pleasant evocative noise. Let's face it, you're building a mid-engined single seater so where do creature comforts fit into the equation?!

An alternative box would be the Hewland LD200 5speed. Actually stronger than the T9 and more numerous these days. Also slightly cheaper on the used market.

here's a selection of close ratios for a VW box than won't break the bank

http://www2.cip1.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=close+ratio&Search1=Search

What about a Renault NG3? Used in Fuego's and a popular swap for Lotus Europas. Or, do you require 5 speeds? If not Renault 16.

What did you go for in the end?
I’m planning on doing almost exactly the same thing (single seater with a 1lt Toyota VVTi 3-cyl engine)
Do you have weights for any of the gearboxes discussed above?

Imp transaxles weigh next to nothing but you would need a Jack Knight full straight cut box, 4 speed JK boxes should be findable, 5 speed JK boxes are rare and a bit iffy anyway. The only LSD available was JK Cam & Pawl which worked rather well.

There was a kit to add a reinforcement cage round the final drive section of the casing for rally use

If you use an Alfasud box the ideal one is from a 1.2 ti as the ratios are much closer, but they are very rare now.

Stu

Modern small audi txs might work well. The likes of the o1E are way too large (56kg), but the likes of the petrol 2001ish A4 box is shorter, all alloy and might come in around 40kg