Description

had to put the truck out on the street today so i could do a bit of welding on a mates car, this got me thinking...

if a skip can be left out on the street, ok

my 'car' certainly looks like a car, but as it is, can't be driven, has no electrics at the moment, and no key to start it, no chassis number, and not registered, can it really be considered a 'car'?

there's a family at the end of the street, they sometimes are suspected of reporting people for stuff, but obviously never admit to it.
sister had a car reported years ago for tax running out that day. fair enough it was untaxed and parked on the street.
kid over the road had motorbikes, and rides them up and down the street, there was some issue there a while a go too, he had no license and neither did the bikes
but is my car really a car yet? yes its untaxed, and uninsured, but it can't have either yet and no way it can be

where does the line get drawn?
there's been no problems today, just curious

discuss

[Edited on 5/1/12 by blakep82]

Under similar circumstances, a friendly traffic cop explained it along the lines of:
"If it looks like it has been built or modified for road use, it will be classed as a road vehicle."
He then went on to explain that it would be up to a judge to decide if your 'thing' was a vehicle or a skip.

i would think because its not registered then you cant have a "ticket" written for it as they would have nothing to reference it too. once its got plates and requstered as a car, then i would say yes its a car.

Yes it's a car because it has a registration document (should have). As its parked on the road, it's done so without tax or insurance and is liable for towing and/or crushing. A skip still requires a license from the local authority before placing it on their property.

make a skip disguise for it out of cardboard painted yellow


what about this:

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Originally posted by MakeEverything
Yes it's a car because it has a registration document (should have). As its parked on the road, it's done so without tax or insurance and is liable for towing and/or crushing. A skip still requires a license from the local authority before placing it on their property.

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Looks like a SKIP to me


Only joking Blake
Graham

Stick a Skoda badge on it....... You'l be fine

Steve.

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Originally posted by jacko
Looks like a SKIP to me


Only joking Blake
Graham

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If it's not a legal vehicle (i.e. no V5, chassis number etc etc) then how would it differ from, say, a bowtop wagon? It's just an unpowered thing with 4 wheels, and you don't need MOT, tax and insurance for a bowtop.

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Originally posted by Cornishman
Stick a Skoda badge on it....... You'l be fine

Steve.

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Here is your answer:

The term 'motor vehicle' is defined in section 185(1) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and section 136(1) of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 as "a mechanically propelled vehicle, intended or adapted for use on roads".

More details here on case law:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences/#definition

Basiclly if the courts/jury/member of the public would consider it a 'motor vehicle' then it is one!

Quite a few years ago, (before S.O.R.N.), I had a mate whose 'car' got ticketed by plod, because it was untaxed, unisured and according to them parked on the road. He went to court and won his case. He argued, with appropriate evidence, that at the time of the 'alleged' offence the item in question was not actually a motor vehicle of legal description. This was due to the fact that, at the time of the 'incident' and for some months previously the alleged vehicle had been and still was located on site with the front end up on ramps and the alleged vehicle had no engine, gearbox or propellor shaft, and, us such, was incapable of being classed as a motor vehicle as it was no longer capable of being 'self propelled' as in the legal definition of a 'motor vehicle'.

Don't know whether it's a car or not but you could be done for causing an obstruction on a pavement

i don't even think the postman uses the pavement... its a dead end street of 13 houses, so very little pedestrian traffic. they walk to the their cars, then drive off

Would you rather get a ticket for an untaxed vehicle on the road. ........or........ Fly tipping a heap of metal and fibreglass

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Quite a few years ago, (before S.O.R.N.), I had a mate whose 'car' got ticketed by plod, because it was untaxed, unisured and according to them parked on the road. He went to court and won his case. He argued, with appropriate evidence, that at the time of the 'alleged' offence the item in question was not actually a motor vehicle of legal description. This was due to the fact that, at the time of the 'incident' and for some months previously the alleged vehicle had been and still was located on site with the front end up on ramps and the alleged vehicle had no engine, gearbox or propellor shaft, and, us such, was incapable of being classed as a motor vehicle as it was no longer capable of being 'self propelled' as in the legal definition of a 'motor vehicle'.

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Are we not missing the point here a bit? Even if it's not a car can you name any other large object that you can just plonk in the road without permission? You need permission (if not road tax) for a skip in theory don't you? That said, what about caravans and trailers? Similar to your truck in some respects.

Which is why I'm interested in JGGs mates case!
I had a lot of grief over a boat mounted on a trailer, a car rolling shell and a plant trailer that was not on the highway, but in a 'public place'. The traffic cop I mentioned in the first reply to this thread, explained what they classed as a 'motor vehicle'. I'm not too sure of the exact wording but it went along the lines of what I posted.
Claiming a vehicle isn't a motor vehicle just because it can't 'self propel' is very odd as it means you can simply run out of fuel, pull off a plug lead, eat the keys, to make it perfectly legal to dump it out in the road.

If it was on a trailer it would be ok? wouldnt it? just a thought.
Ray

A motor vehicle mounted on a trailer then becomes a part fo the trailer therefore must comply with the trailer construction and use regs. The trailer must be parked safely, in accordance with the road traffic act (including being parked facing the correct way with reflectors etc) and have third party liability insurance (which will be covered if attached to an insured tow vehicle).

I'd guess the definition of self propell is could it reasonably self propell. If you add fuel it will go. If you fix the plug lead it will go etc etc.

If it has no engine, gearbox, propshaft then its pretty impossible for it to go without major work.

(all guesswork & looking forward to the answer as it could be interesting)

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Originally posted by MikeR
I'd guess the definition of self propell is could it reasonably self propell. If you add fuel it will go. If you fix the plug lead it will go etc etc.

If it has no engine, gearbox, propshaft then its pretty impossible for it to go without major work.

(all guesswork & looking forward to the answer as it could be interesting)

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I think I'd have to say that the roads are a place for transport to move around safely, not a rubbish dump or a storage location. And you need a permit to put a skip on the road.

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there's a family at the end of the street, they sometimes are suspected of reporting people for stuff, but obviously never admit to it. sister had a car reported years ago for tax running out that day. fair enough it was untaxed and parked on the street. kid over the road had motorbikes, and rides them up and down the street, there was some issue there a while a go too, he had no license and neither did the bikes but is my car really a car yet? yes its untaxed, and uninsured, but it can't have either yet and no way it can be

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Originally posted by coyoteboy
Sounds to me like you live in a place where plenty of people try to flout the law, so I suspect the police will frown on you as they would frown on other people in the area.

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No, I've not! I'm just going from the tax avoiding types and kids on motorbikes without licenses etc - not exactly normal in a "good" neighbourhood, hence the conclusion jumped to Not really the point though, if it's not reflectored etc up and has sharp edges, it's a danger to other road users and it doesn't belong on the road, it belongs on your drive.

ah no he's a good lad, he's an apprentice grounds keeper at the golf course, he's got a 50cc bike and license etc now, he just loves bikes since he was about 6 and his dad got him a dirt bike for when they were over at the caravan, and he rode it round the grounds of the caravan park and sometimes on the street when his dad was about, his dad's got his own business as a landscape gardener, and the ones that complain sometimes teach the violin
hard;y a trouble causeing neighbourhood.
as for me, it was either put it on the street as i needed the garage space, or weld my mates car in the street, where i'm sure blinding the residents would cause much more of an issue. its the only time its been off the drive, ever, and i've had it a long time.... a very long time...

Well you know what that means then, you need to make more time for it to get it sorted

damn right! time and money. never got both at the same time lol. when i've got either, i'm usually lacking skill ha ha

From the sound of the way your country operates, you'll be in the slammer for at least 5 years, maybe more, depending on Mrs. Kravitz down the street's testimony as to your unsavory character. Don't worry, I'm sure someone will come to visit you!

True I've found in my experience that what it is you're doing, well it's wrong here's a ticket...

Just a thought, car dealers temporarily park new unregistered vehicles on the road during delivery - the cops don't seem to mind.
Clearly this is not the same as parking for a few days.

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Originally posted by JonBowden
Just a thought, car dealers temporarily park new unregistered vehicles on the road during delivery - the cops don't seem to mind.
Clearly this is not the same as parking for a few days.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MikeR
I'd guess the definition of self propell is could it reasonably self propell. If you add fuel it will go. If you fix the plug lead it will go etc etc.

If it has no engine, gearbox, propshaft then its pretty impossible for it to go without major work.

(all guesswork & looking forward to the answer as it could be interesting)

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