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Locost exterior design
Gaz 1977 - 29/1/07 at 07:10 PM

As you might or might not know I am designing an enclosed body for a locost chassis and building a one quarter scale model of the final design. if anyone has any comments i would be grateful for the feedback as it is still early days in the project.

[Edited on 29/1/07 by Gaz 1977]


Gaz 1977 - 29/1/07 at 07:13 PM

one day I will get the hang of getting pics up on this site Rescued attachment side rendering.jpg
Rescued attachment side rendering.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 29/1/07 at 07:15 PM

this is how the model is comming on. by the way its about a metre long Rescued attachment DSC00513.JPG
Rescued attachment DSC00513.JPG


nib1980 - 29/1/07 at 07:22 PM

The model looks awesome!

if your after selling it when your finished just let me know, cos I'll buy it from you

(got a bit of a thing for collecting unique models)

keep up the good work


D Beddows - 29/1/07 at 07:23 PM

Definitely one of the better looking styling exercises I've seen - sadly it has the same basic flaw as about 90% of them in that it wouldn't exactly be low cost to actualy produce


novacaine - 29/1/07 at 07:33 PM

realy nice looking car there, let me know what it turns out like, i would be interested to know

ATB

Matt


Confused but excited. - 29/1/07 at 07:38 PM

If that was mine, never mind a jet wash, I'd lick it clean!


Gaz 1977 - 29/1/07 at 07:50 PM

Thanks for the comments chaps, please feel free to slag it off, if there are any bits of it you don't approve off for christs sake tell me because i still have time to change it.

If i end up with a design that i am happy with at some point i would love to make it full size. I think it could be made from blue foam and fibreglassed over the top for not too much cash.


Bob C - 29/1/07 at 07:53 PM

The side view looks mint - what about front & rear views? Surely the lid should come off.........cheers
Bob


D Beddows - 29/1/07 at 08:14 PM

If I was being realy picky (and I mean REALY picky ) the rear wheelarch doesn't quite look right - not sure if its too tight round the wheel or if its just that lip round the edge that makes it look slightly too small in relation to the rest of the body........ like I say I am being realy picky here cos it actualy looks great

Any pictures of other angles?

[Edited on 29/1/07 by D Beddows]


Gaz 1977 - 29/1/07 at 08:15 PM

I am not too sure about the front. ive got a load of sketchwork, I just need to make my mind up, all sergestions welcome. I will stick some of the sketches on tomorow. ( the pub beckons)

I want the hard top to be removable, I might photoshop on a soft top and see what it looks like. Saying that if i was to build it full size i would not have a clue how to do a soft top.


alister667 - 29/1/07 at 09:16 PM

Looks great, but the problem with a top on a locost chassis is getting in and out of it. The door that's on the sketch if in proportion would be about 2 foot high.
Tricky.
Especially if I'm wearing an evening dress!!! LOL


alister667 - 29/1/07 at 09:18 PM

Actually just thinking about it folks with full rollcages can get in and out alright, so it might not be that big a problem. Bit of a squeeze that's all.


Confused but excited. - 29/1/07 at 10:30 PM

You could always fit 'gullwing' doors.


stevebubs - 29/1/07 at 10:50 PM

Hmmm..proportions look "right" for a Fury chassis....




[Edited on 29/1/07 by stevebubs]


907 - 29/1/07 at 11:13 PM

Huh!

Typical of designers. Always designing stuff that us 17 stoners can't get into.

How about an 'inge ?

Love it to bits really.



Paul G Rescued attachment Gazzez-design-wiv-inge.jpg
Rescued attachment Gazzez-design-wiv-inge.jpg


JamJah - 30/1/07 at 02:07 AM

Or smart roadster targa roof on removable slide. smart51 might be able to take some pics if you ask nicely.


Gaz 1977 - 30/1/07 at 09:10 AM

Thanks again for the comments chaps.

I will have a go at sorting the roof problem today, how about a four bar hinge that lifts the whole roof up and back over your head so it would be a bit easier to get in and out?

I will also mod the rear arches, I think D Beddows has a good point, so thanks for that.

Anyway I need to get into the uni workshops and work on the Clay Buck this morning.

I will stick some new pics on here tonight.

thanks again.

Gaz.


David Jenkins - 30/1/07 at 09:31 AM

Very smart.

A Targa roof sounds good... I think that access will be an issue, but not impossible to sort. You will probably have to make allowances for heat around the exhaust outlets - too many enclosed silencers have set fire to the bodywork (e.g. a Dodge Viper on Top Gear).

How about a 3/4 shot then, Gaz?

cheers,
David

[Edited on 30/1/07 by David Jenkins]


Gaz 1977 - 30/1/07 at 10:20 PM

I didn't get as much time as i thought to do design work today as the tv went bang and i was through Top Gear. A new one has now been found.

Anyway I will rework the rear arches and the roof tomorow.

here is a rough thumbnail sketch of a possible front. Rescued attachment ft 34 locost stetch.jpg
Rescued attachment ft 34 locost stetch.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 30/1/07 at 10:22 PM

made the Clay Buck this morning, soon be ready to sculpt the body Rescued attachment clay buck.jpg
Rescued attachment clay buck.jpg


907 - 30/1/07 at 11:49 PM

So THAT'S how it's done!


I wondered how you sculpt a body and be certain that it would fit over everything.

When the clay is hard can the foam be removed and the body then sat on the chassis?


Paul G


macnab - 31/1/07 at 09:48 AM

I like the car design though I agree about the door; it would be very difficult to get in and out without crawling (not cool).

I am also doodling designs for a bodyshell and have opted for a sliding forward canopy rather like the movie batmobile. It was to be moved by engine vacuum stored in a cylinder. I think there is a big market for a well designed low-cost coupe shell that could be easily removed to allow folk to use their cars more in our fab climate.


Gaz 1977 - 31/1/07 at 12:25 PM

I would like to see some of your designs. It is good to see different ideas around a similar theme


Gaz 1977 - 31/1/07 at 05:59 PM

so what do you all think of the revised rear end. all comments welcome.

gaz Rescued attachment side mark 3.jpg
Rescued attachment side mark 3.jpg


Pezza - 31/1/07 at 06:14 PM

Looks stunning imo


David Jenkins - 31/1/07 at 06:18 PM

It does look interesting!

Just a thought - how much headroom do you anticipate? Have you tried fitting a "standard human" inside on the drawing board?

Not trying to be negative, honest! Just that it's better to address these issues early on in the design.

cheers,
David

[Edited on 31/1/07 by David Jenkins]


Gaz 1977 - 31/1/07 at 09:02 PM

hi Dave, if i have measured things right it should be ok, however i have considered building two very subtle domes over the heads of the occupants. I think it would give the feel of a small agile car shrunk around the driver. The last thing i want is the vehicle to become too large. I hope to have some other views and the roof issues sorted out over the weekend.

Can't wait to start the Clay model.

cheers, Gaz


Gaz 1977 - 1/2/07 at 07:22 PM

I hope this image gives an idea of the size of the vehicle.

keep the comments comming

Thanks Gaz Rescued attachment side rendering mk 3 AND SEVEN.jpg
Rescued attachment side rendering mk 3 AND SEVEN.jpg


kreb - 1/2/07 at 07:41 PM

I think that it's very comely! I wonder if that scalloped side panel might not be very aerodynamic both in terms of lift and drag.

[Edited on 1/2/07 by kreb]


Gaz 1977 - 1/2/07 at 07:53 PM

thanks for the comment Kreb,

I was going to have the sides leading through to the air intake of the nose, to remove heat from the engine bay, if you know what i mean.

Would there be an inturnal shape (under the skollop) that could stop the effects of lift?


kreb - 1/2/07 at 08:44 PM

Actually I was referring to the rocker panels, or lack thereof.

It'll be a hell of a project in terms of hours committed, but if you've got the fortitude, what a result!!!!!!!!


ettore bugatti - 2/2/07 at 12:51 AM

You dont have much space between the steering wheel and B-pillar.

Does look good, I always like the idea of a coupe body on a 7.


Rob Palin - 2/2/07 at 08:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
thanks for the comment Kreb,

I was going to have the sides leading through to the air intake of the nose, to remove heat from the engine bay, if you know what i mean.

Would there be an inturnal shape (under the skollop) that could stop the effects of lift?


No, a scallop there is fine. It will help air out of the engine bay and also reduce the size of the wake from the front wheel which usually makes a mess of the flow down the side of the car. In terms of lift i would be very surprised if you saw any penalty since you're extracting air which would otherwise build up under the bonnet and wheelarch, increasing the pressure there.

If i can make one request from an aero point of view - please don't leave much of the front face of the front tyres visible from the front of the car (like a Pheonix body), as that is absolutely terrible for lift, although people do tend to like it from a styling point of view.

Generally though, it looks fantastic! Keep it up!


Gaz 1977 - 2/2/07 at 10:55 AM

Thanks again for all the help, The problem is that i cant keep up with the mods. That does't meen stop comenting.

How about this as an idea for the doors and roof, Similar to razman's. Rescued attachment mk 3 side DOOR OPEN.jpg
Rescued attachment mk 3 side DOOR OPEN.jpg


stevebubs - 2/2/07 at 02:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
Thanks again for all the help, The problem is that i cant keep up with the mods. That does't meen stop comenting.

How about this as an idea for the doors and roof, Similar to razman's.


Hmm...looks about the same size as a Fury door - and they're snug for the average person....I normally rotate, squeeze me legs out then use my arms in a scissor action against the two sides to lever myself out...


Gaz 1977 - 3/2/07 at 10:38 AM

I think that i will get a better idea of door openings etc once the model is in clay and i can have a good look around it.

thanks,

Gaz


Dale - 3/2/07 at 08:17 PM

Just a thought but just may be the scale. Will a shorter driver be able to see out the side windows or will they be sitting too low?
Dale


Gaz 1977 - 4/2/07 at 09:42 AM

thanks dale,

Well this is the plan, (at the moment) Because I have raised the roofline i am able to raise the steering wheel which allows me to move the seats forward and up if necessary. I would like to fit seat runners if possible so there could be ample adjustment for all sizes of people.

I am contemplating moving the front screen backwards a tad to givea larger bonnet area, what do you recon?

Oh just another thing, I have two different side views, which one do you all think is the better.

Thanks again.

Gaz

[Edited on 4/2/07 by Gaz 1977]


Stu16v - 4/2/07 at 09:38 PM

Ooh, smacks of Caterham 21...


Gaz 1977 - 5/2/07 at 09:15 PM

I hope it wont, when its finished. I had never seen one till i googled it this morning.

Here is (and i stress) a very rough rear view Rescued attachment reaer 34 locost.jpg
Rescued attachment reaer 34 locost.jpg


907 - 5/2/07 at 09:57 PM

Hi Gaz,

I hadn't heard of a 21 either.
I suppose that's another number Caterham won't let anyone use.

Just a thought on the exhaust. (Well I would, wouldn't I)

Is the bottom of the scalloped side the edge of the Locost chassis?
If so, I can see a "Cobra style" exhaust tube/can in there.

Tee He, I'll start making the prototype.


atb

Paul G


Gaz 1977 - 5/2/07 at 10:50 PM

i doubt if it will be the edge of the chassis,


i will have the angle change of the chassis
(11 degrees i think) to smooth out, i dont know about the exhaust yet, If you are in the mood you can make one for the A2


907 - 5/2/07 at 11:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
i doubt if it will be the edge of the chassis,


i will have the angle change of the chassis
(11 degrees i think) to smooth out, i dont know about the exhaust yet,


____________________________________________

If you are in the mood you can make one for the A2
____________________________________________



No problem. Titanium OK ? £1,000


Gaz 1977 - 6/2/07 at 09:10 AM

not a problem, i will take one off your hands. I think you will find it is exactly the same system as a 1990 v8 vantage.

gonna start the clay model today.


Gaz 1977 - 9/2/07 at 05:40 PM

if anyone is interested the clay model of my design is underway. I have only spent a couple of days on it so far, i hope that in a few weeks it will be fairly resolved.

if anyone has any questions or opinions please let me know Rescued attachment ft 23 small.jpg
Rescued attachment ft 23 small.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 9/2/07 at 05:41 PM

and the rear Rescued attachment rear 34 small.jpg
Rescued attachment rear 34 small.jpg


CraigJ - 11/2/07 at 01:28 PM

Kin hell thats looking great.


sgraber - 11/2/07 at 03:49 PM

Your definitely onto something. It's a very dynamic shape that looks like it's going fast just sitting still. Have you modeled the sight lines from the interior yet? (Cad).

I really, REALLY hope that you don't stop at the clay stage because I think it's awesome.


Gaz 1977 - 11/2/07 at 05:05 PM

thanks for the comments mate.

I havent sorted out the line of site yet. I know that the bonnet needs to be lowered a bit and i hope to get it sorted over the next couple of days. Once the body is a little closer to the final design i will be able to measure from the model and still have chance to change things around. (the joy of clay)

I havent done any cad work on this project yet and i am not sure that i will have time to as the university deadline is fairly tight.

Tomorow i really need to work on the rear arches because at the moment they look shite (technical term)

thanks for the comments and keep looking on here because i will try and update it every day or so.


Bob C - 11/2/07 at 11:28 PM

Gaz - it's got class & I want one!
I hope you can get together with one of the manufacturers to develop this as a body mould to go on a locost chassis - they'd have one customer here already....
Bob
PS did I say I want an open top/soft-top version - no worries with doors then...


Steve Lovelock - 12/2/07 at 06:15 AM

Gaz, your university course looks fantastic


Gaz 1977 - 12/2/07 at 05:53 PM

well this is where it is at today.

If i could find a company that would be willing to work with me on this and build it full size i will make you a soft top, Rescued attachment ft 34 feb 12.jpg
Rescued attachment ft 34 feb 12.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 12/2/07 at 06:00 PM

and from the side.

thanks again for all the comments.

give it another month and i hope it will start to look a bit tasty.

after using clay over the last few days i have come to the decision that it is the perfect way to make air intakes, even mirrors and nose cones.

Rescued attachment side feb 12.jpg
Rescued attachment side feb 12.jpg


Bluemoon - 13/2/07 at 02:10 PM

Hi Gaz,

Looks good, just make sure your effort is not lost.If you digitized the shape you could make a buck using the same method as:

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=43112

Even if you don't do it now it will be worth keeping the model!

Where about's is your home town when your not at uni?

Cheers

Dan

[Edited on 13/2/07 by Bluemoon]


timf - 13/2/07 at 02:56 PM

with some more work

bat
bat


[Edited on 13/2/07 by timf]

[Edited on 13/2/07 by timf]


Gaz 1977 - 13/2/07 at 07:20 PM

when the thing is finally finished there is no way i would throw the model away. God knows where i will keep it though.

when i am not at uni i live near Sudbury on the essex/suffolk border. Why?

As for the Batman thing, I don't think it would pass SVA with all the pointy bits!


Gaz 1977 - 14/2/07 at 03:51 PM

here we go with the latest progress Rescued attachment feb 14 worm.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 14 worm.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 14/2/07 at 03:53 PM

comments please. Rescued attachment feb 14 ft 34.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 14 ft 34.jpg


andyps - 14/2/07 at 07:09 PM

That does look great. I have a question though - any idea of the aero effect of the "channel" behind the front wheel? It appears that just at the point where most road dirt (and therefore presumably some air) is thrown up from the wheel there is a scoop along the car - would this affect the aerodynamics at all?


Gaz 1977 - 14/2/07 at 10:42 PM

to be honnest, i am not sure but i don't think it we be a problem as it will be removing trapped air from the engine bay.
It must create less lift then clamshell mudguards?

some people say it is a problem, some say its not.

I have herd rumours that there is a small wind tunnel in the engineering department of the uni. So there must be someone there who can give me an answer. I will try and track someone down to have a look over the model over the next week.

thanks for the comment, i hope we will have an answer soon.

Thanks.

GAZ


Bob C - 14/2/07 at 11:59 PM

I'll make a couple of observations -
1) I'm a bit worried about the height of the scuttle & over the front wings (driver's view)
2) the curved 'hole' between front wings & bonnet looks like it would be tough to mould in GRP
3) the waisted in 'side pod' area is a really strong styling feature - sure the aero might not be optimal, but lets face it, it's never gonna be!! It looks like it's been diluted on the clay model compared to some of the drawings..
The height thing is the main worry for me, i'm quite tall & have a cushioned seat in my locost but am very aware of how low I'm sitting in the 7 - most folks' eyes will be lower still
Still way cool though!
Bob

[Edited on 15/2/07 by Bob C]


sgraber - 15/2/07 at 12:45 AM

Let me start off by saying that I quite like it. It's unusual in that it has an overriding retro style with an edgy, modern feel to it. It would be hard to make of list of all the things I like because I do like it, so forgive me if I just point out a few petty things that bother me slightly? I know you won't mind....

The rear wheel feels wimpy and I don't know if it's the arch or the bulk of the paneling above the arch. Maybe it needs a beefier tire?

Bob's comment about the front vent is good, but it doesn't mean that it's not insurmountable. It just means that the mould making process is going to get very 'expensive'. FYI I debated some of those internal mould components during my build and decided against them due to cost/complexity issues.

You need to start thinking about glass now, before you finish the clay model. Otherwise you are looking at a project that will be priced out of the range of anyone remotely interested in the car.

my .03 american cents...


Gaz 1977 - 15/2/07 at 09:58 AM

hi guys,

I will try and answer some questions.

first bob.
the scuttle is the same height as a book chassis and the top of the roof is the same height as a roll bar, I am sure that there is enough space to fit a seat with rails and height adjustment. (well i hope so)

Oh by the way the height of the roof is 44 inches at the mo.

When i started the clay i built up a MDF and blue foam buck with the same exturnal dimentions as a book chassis. With probes and reference to my scale chassis i am able to judge where key componants are under the clay, for example i know that there is 70mm clearance over the top of the engine block.

The molding of the front could be broken into seperate parts, if a seperate bonnet was used i could achive the effects of the air intakes.

thanks Bob and keep em comming.

Time for Sgraber.

You are completely right about the rear wings and i will do a few changes. I still have some serious mods to do on the rear in the next couple of days so keep looking and commenting,

The glass is a bit of an issue at the moment, not sure what road to go down. I was thinking plastic rear and side and a cut down glass screen for the front.

There is a bit of politics at the Uni at the moment. (different lecturers saying different things) so if anyone has a good answer for the glass issue i can use it as backup.

Thanks again Guys.

Gaz.

PS. If there is anyone in the newcastle area who fancys a look and a coffee feel free to U2U me.


Rob Palin - 15/2/07 at 10:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
to be honnest, i am not sure but i don't think it we be a problem as it will be removing trapped air from the engine bay.
It must create less lift then clamshell mudguards?

some people say it is a problem, some say its not.

I have herd rumours that there is a small wind tunnel in the engineering department of the uni. So there must be someone there who can give me an answer. I will try and track someone down to have a look over the model over the next week.

thanks for the comment, i hope we will have an answer soon.

Thanks.

GAZ



The scallops will have two main and competing effects:

1/ Assisting the escape of the air which would otherwise build up in the wheelarch (louvres on the upper surface of the arch/fender would also help, but they have unpopular practical and styling consequences). This will reduce lift.

2/ They will allow some spillage of flow from the side of the car into the underfloor area. This will increase the pressure there and not help the lift situation (though not generate any additional lift in itself, just reduce the benefit of the low pressure under there). If you are thinking of having any sort of rear diffuser then you might consider putting some sort of 'running board' along the side to effectively extend the plane of the floor of the car out to the full width of the body.


That might not be too much of a problem, however, as generally speaking this sort of car doesn't tend to suffer so much from rear lift as it does from front lift. Typically it is the curved front ends which encourage flow under the front end and into the front wheelarches which is the biggest culprit (the front wheelarches on a 7 are responsible for 70%+ of the front lift). If styling considerations mean that your bumper/fenders are all curved (kind of like a GT40's) then lots of air will be rushing into the wheelarch and using louvres or that scallop to help it get back out will be more important.


Gaz 1977 - 15/2/07 at 10:34 AM

thanks Rob.

I like the idea of vents in the top of the arches, that could help with some issues i have with the bonnet styling, I will mock it up and put it on here.

It wont be today as i have the wonderful task of sitting in the house and waiting for a delivery. BUGGER.


Uphill Racer - 15/2/07 at 08:42 PM

The scallops will have two main and competing effects:

1/ Assisting the escape of the air which would otherwise build up in the wheelarch (louvres on the upper surface of the arch/fender would also help, but they have unpopular practical and styling consequences). This will reduce lift.

2/ They will allow some spillage of flow from the side of the car into the underfloor area. This will increase the pressure there and not help the lift situation (though not generate any additional lift in itself, just reduce the benefit of the low pressure under there). If you are thinking of having any sort of rear diffuser then you might consider putting some sort of 'running board' along the side to effectively extend the plane of the floor of the car out to the full width of the body.


This may not be the way it works, the scallops could create rolling vortices that actually block the flow of air out of the engine bay, but create an air skirt down the side of the car aiding downforce if a venturi is used. They may also add a large drag factor.

Is the windscreen based an a production unit?
Have you done a mock up of driving position and eye line, as it looks as if eye line is in line with top of windscreen.
Screen pillar is a problem and will produce a blind spot.
As for testing aero properties, fit wool tufts to model,strap it on the roof fo a car and film/ photograph it. (natures wind tunnel)
Looks good in a traditional way.


Gaz 1977 - 16/2/07 at 09:40 AM

some images fro the weekend.

raised rear arch

filled side

bottom edge taken out wider Rescued attachment 16 feb 34.jpg
Rescued attachment 16 feb 34.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 16/2/07 at 09:45 AM

as far as the eyeline is concerned i think it is ok. the seats sit lower in the car then you might think.

Imagine the high point of the roof being the top of a roll bar. the view should be no different then a normal locost.

thanks

GAZ Rescued attachment 16 feb side.jpg
Rescued attachment 16 feb side.jpg


Rob Palin - 16/2/07 at 09:48 AM

If the outboard edge of the sill is sharp then you will get vortices rolling up along that edge regardless of it's lateral position. With the front of the sill angled inwards, as part of the scallop, it is quite possible that the low pressure at the core of the vortices would act on the underside of the car and enhance downforce - very much like an inverted delta wing.

I 'm not sure how that vortex formation would block flow out of the wheelarch though - isn't it too low and further inboard?. Can you give a bit more detail?

[Edited on 16/2/07 by Rob Palin]


Gaz 1977 - 16/2/07 at 09:53 AM

The top of the front screen can always be raised or moved futher into the roof, if you know what i meen.

the screen will be a simple shape (a gradual curve in both directions so i imagine it to be cut from an existing screen.

thanks again for all the help.

GAZ Rescued attachment 16 feb ft.jpg
Rescued attachment 16 feb ft.jpg


macnab - 16/2/07 at 11:32 AM

Hmm, not ugly but I'd do a few changes

1) windscreen min 1/4 longer
2) Reduce front pillar thickness, a lot
3) Include a Diablo cutout to the lower front door window line to improve visibility.
4) Make the bonnet more pointed, looks like a big tongue in the last pic.
5) In one of the drawings the rear area was much smaller and lighter, that I liked a lot the model looks very fat from behind
6) Front lights look to hidden for the SVA, I was wondering where they even were till I saw the front view.
7) The doors are going to be very thick, doubt they will hinge out, gullwings might end up very heavy with such a large lower door. Maclaren butterfly hinges might be the solution.

Oh and I love the sculptured roof, very classy.

Understand I'm not trying to be negative in any way; you're doing very well. Just a few observations based on my personal tastes...


macnab - 16/2/07 at 12:14 PM

ok before I get accused of just criticizing here's my suggestion of how the front might look, bairing in mind I've only got ms paintbox on my work machine.

[Edited on 16/2/07 by macnab]


Tralfaz - 16/2/07 at 02:14 PM

I think you could raise the roofline slightly and thereby extend the windscreen/sidewindows a bit without detracting from the shape.


Brian

Ps The typical, only a quickie in paint/refinement required disclaimer applies


[img][/img]


stevebubs - 16/2/07 at 03:32 PM

http://www.thekitcarworkshop.co.uk/page31.html


andyps - 16/2/07 at 04:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
http://www.thekitcarworkshop.co.uk/page31.html


That is a good looking "thought for the future"

Trouble is, whenever I see things like this I can't help feeling that they are unlikely to be Locost

[Edited on 16/2/07 by andyps]


stevebubs - 16/2/07 at 04:52 PM

Yeah...Martin was struggling to find the business justification. Even more so now, I should imagine.


Gaz 1977 - 16/2/07 at 07:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by macnab
Hmm, not ugly but I'd do a few changes

1) windscreen min 1/4 longer

If it was 1/4 longer it would be below the steering wheel and through the scuttle, so this is not physically possible.

2) Reduce front pillar thickness, a lot

It does need to be thinner but it will be made of fibreglass and it needs to be strong.

3) Include a Diablo cutout to the lower front door window line to improve visibility.

A Diablo is flat sided, this is not so it wouldn't work.

4) Make the bonnet more pointed, looks like a big tongue in the last pic.

This is going to be changed anyway, I have never been happy with it.

5) In one of the drawings the rear area was much smaller and lighter, that I liked a lot the model looks very fat from behind

I have just filled the whole of the back in to start again as I was not happy with it.

6) Front lights look to hidden for the SVA, I was wondering where they even were till I saw the front view.

The Aero 8 gets away with it! But again these will probably change.

7) The doors are going to be very thick, doubt they will hinge out, gullwings might end up very heavy with such a large lower door. Maclaren butterfly hinges might be the solution.

The doors are explained better earlier in this thread, with pictures.

Thanks for the comments.


Gaz 1977 - 16/2/07 at 07:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Tralfaz
I think you could raise the roofline slightly and thereby extend the windscreen/sidewindows a bit without detracting from the shape.


Brian


Image deleted by owner


Thanks for the image, the height of the model is quite deceptive in the photographs. Just to check it out I've just been in the garage and sat in my Dad's (907) locost and the top of the roof is the same height as his roll bar which gives a clear four inches over my head. That's with Cobra seats mounted two inches from the floor and I'm six foot tall. I'm going to mock up a roofline for a photo tomorrow.

Please keep the comments coming.

Thanks a lot,
Gaz


Uphill Racer - 16/2/07 at 07:35 PM

Sorry Rob,
I 'm not sure how that vortex formation would block flow out of the wheelarch though - isn't it too low and further inboard?. Can you give a bit more detail?

My mistake, thought engine bay was exhausted from bottom of scallop behind wheel arch.


Tralfaz - 16/2/07 at 08:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
quote:
Originally posted by Tralfaz
I think you could raise the roofline slightly and thereby extend the windscreen/sidewindows a bit without detracting from the shape.


Brian






Image deleted by owner


Thanks for the image, the height of the model is quite deceptive in the photographs. Just to check it out I've just been in the garage and sat in my Dad's (907) locost and the top of the roof is the same height as his roll bar which gives a clear four inches over my head. That's with Cobra seats mounted two inches from the floor and I'm six foot tall. I'm going to mock up a roofline for a photo tomorrow.

Please keep the comments coming.

Thanks a lot,
Gaz


Hey Gaz,

My suggestion for raising the roof was less about head room and more about improving view and sight lines, and honestly the windows feel a little small proportionately to the rest of the car. From the sides the model doesn't look bad, but from the front the 'cockpit bubble' feels undersized.

Kind Regards,

Brian


Gaz 1977 - 17/2/07 at 09:07 AM

hi brian, thanks for the comments.

what i could do is lower the side windows and the shoulder line a little which would enlarge the rear arch.

we are going to get the locost out the garage and have another measure this morning.

i need to come up with a better way of photographing the thing. The mottled matt finish hides the form, For example there is a huge bonnet bulge which never shows up.

Do you think if i sprayed it with water to get a shine the photos might work better?

thanks again.

Gaz

[Edited on 17/2/07 by Gaz 1977]


Gaz 1977 - 17/2/07 at 02:17 PM

we have had a play in the garage and mocked the roof line the same height as the model but with the front a little heigher. 44 inches at the back and 42 at the front Rescued attachment roof side.jpg
Rescued attachment roof side.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 17/2/07 at 02:18 PM

and from the front. Rescued attachment sutol roof ft.jpg
Rescued attachment sutol roof ft.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 17/2/07 at 02:20 PM

and from the head rest.

the scuttle on the car in the pic is the same height on my model.

thanks for the help

Gaz. Rescued attachment roof view.jpg
Rescued attachment roof view.jpg


escort_innit - 17/2/07 at 02:59 PM

If those are the headlights marked on in black tape I'm not sure I like them, the two very similar shapes look too fussy. Perhaps you could arrange the lightclusters around the airvents?

I did a couple of sketches to show what I mean; Rescued attachment DSC00617.jpg
Rescued attachment DSC00617.jpg


escort_innit - 17/2/07 at 03:00 PM

Or this; Rescued attachment DSC00616.jpg
Rescued attachment DSC00616.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 17/2/07 at 06:13 PM

nice idea


Gaz 1977 - 17/2/07 at 07:54 PM

I have just read my last reply and it looks like it could be misinterpreted as taking the piss, so sorry for that, I do really like the idea of the lights where you have put them and i will definitely try them on the model.

thanks for everyone's responses

Gaz


escort_innit - 18/2/07 at 09:46 AM

I didn't take it as offensive, but apology accepted anyway!


chrisg - 19/2/07 at 02:50 PM

I've been thinking Gaz (dangerous I know) but because of the need to retain the high sill (side) of a Locost wouldn't a pop canopy like the Nova work?




No messing with butterfly doors or gull wings, simple and easy.

Just a thought.

Chris

Apparently Uroglass do the screens too!

[Edited on 19/2/07 by chrisg]


Fred W B - 19/2/07 at 05:36 PM

But, how do you get out of the car if it happens to be upside down?

Cheers

Fred W B


Gaz 1977 - 19/2/07 at 06:32 PM

hi chaps.

To answer fred, A door in the floor. (your last name isn't Flintstone is it)

The nova roof could be a bloody good idea.

I still fancy a removable hard top so what if the front screen stayed in place and the rest moved up and backwards?

On the screen front, i had a look at a smart roadster in a car park and it might well nearly fit. I know a guy a uni with one so i will give it a measure in the week.

the rear screen is not so much of a problem but how about using the new vauxhall tigra?

I will .be back working on the model tomorow and i will se if i can come up with a front end.

Thanks.

Gaz


Gaz 1977 - 20/2/07 at 06:22 PM

here are the latest images, Rescued attachment feb 20 s34.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 20 s34.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 20/2/07 at 06:23 PM

and another Rescued attachment feb 20 ft34.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 20 ft34.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 20/2/07 at 06:26 PM

and one more.

all comments would be greatfully recieved

thanks

GAZ Rescued attachment 20 feb side.jpg
Rescued attachment 20 feb side.jpg


Tralfaz - 20/2/07 at 10:15 PM




macnab - 21/2/07 at 12:30 PM

10/10, well done


gottabedone - 21/2/07 at 04:54 PM

Gaz

Very nice work. Your initial designs were very nice but progressive works seem to water down what you initially intended. We all have our own views on design which are influienced by our favourite cars. Other peoples views are steering your design towards TVR/Marcos/Melling etc.

Your idea for the sculpted sides has raised many a readers eyebrows. There has been a lot of chat about aero dynamics but how efficient a shape is the 7 - not at all. The sides are one of the main features of your first drawings and IMO helped to lessen the impression of the height of the car.
Your design is wicked and I think that you should model the car the way you intended - with a few modifications of course.

keep up the good work - does this pikky (hope it works!!) of the saab aero x get you thinking about your roof????

regards


Steve


gottabedone - 21/2/07 at 04:59 PM

I've put the image of the saab in my photo archive

regards

Steve


David Jenkins - 21/2/07 at 05:07 PM

Gaz,

I agree with Steve - don't lose sight of your original concept as it had many original ideas. There is a danger that your design will get watered down as time goes on and you get more and more diverse opinions.

Remember - a camel is a horse designed by a committee!

It does look good though...

cheers,
David


907 - 21/2/07 at 08:51 PM

Hi Gaz.

It's looking good.

Love the shape of the front corner. The bumper blending up to the nose makes the
air intake hole look a different shape from the side than from the front. Cool.

Have you toned down the front edge of the side scallop?
That's a unique feature. I'd keep it sharp. (IMHO of course)

The light position looks a lot better too.

ATB

Paul G


Gaz 1977 - 21/2/07 at 09:29 PM

Thanks for thr pics of the SAAB steve I like that ALOT.

Point taken on the side, I need to try the skoop again in a different way.

I will get there in the end.

Two weeks in, three months to go.

thanks for the comments.
Keep them comming.

GAZ

BTW David, bring back the emu!

[Edited on 21/2/07 by Gaz 1977]


Gaz 1977 - 22/2/07 at 07:04 PM

here are the latest Rescued attachment feb 22 ft.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 22 ft.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 22/2/07 at 07:06 PM

and the side.

the car phone is a bit big. Rescued attachment 22 feb high side.jpg
Rescued attachment 22 feb high side.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 22/2/07 at 07:06 PM

and another Rescued attachment 22 feb ft 34.jpg
Rescued attachment 22 feb ft 34.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 22/2/07 at 07:09 PM

and finally the rear.

as usual its all work in progress so all comments would be great

GAZ Rescued attachment feb 22 rear 34.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 22 rear 34.jpg


chrisg - 22/2/07 at 07:12 PM

Looking good mate.

You know we're all sitting here waiting for you to post every night don't you?

I like the widow treatment but I'd lose the built in calculator!

Cheers

Chris


David Jenkins - 22/2/07 at 08:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by chrisg

I like the widow treatment ...



Please tell me the best way to treat a widow...


chrisg - 22/2/07 at 08:47 PM

Ah yes that.

I meant wiNdow.

I once got a stiff neck sleeping next to an open French widow.

But that's another story

Cheers

Chris

Actually I wish I'd just edited the original post and made YOU look silly!


macnab - 23/2/07 at 01:10 PM

You know from this angle I can't fault a single thing, its just spot on.

Will this shell be put into production? As I would be interested in getting one for my indi, whatís the intended wheelbase and track?

This is a fascinating thing to watch

The thing I like is that it's really a very low and small car, would look stuning in real life.




[Edited on 23/2/07 by macnab]


AvonBelgium - 23/2/07 at 01:31 PM

Nice design,

In profile it looks alot like a 8c, witch a very nice car


[img]http:// [/img]

[Edited on 23/2/07 by AvonBelgium]


David Jenkins - 23/2/07 at 02:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by chrisg
Actually I wish I'd just edited the original post and made YOU look silly!


No need - I can do that all by myself...


Gaz 1977 - 23/2/07 at 06:07 PM

Thanks for the comments once again.

I have done a little work on the front end today but forgot to take my camara to the workshop. (BUGGER)

As for the wheelbase and track it is the same as the Haynes book chassis. (old book sorry Chris) I have left the book at uni and I cant remember off hand. (AGAIN BUGGER)

It would be nice once the design is finished to see it full size. If I could find an interested company i would be a very happy man.



Anyway I thought i might post some pics of the chassis.

Thanks to everyone

GAZ. Rescued attachment chaSSIS.jpg
Rescued attachment chaSSIS.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 23/2/07 at 06:09 PM

and the back Rescued attachment CHASSIS 2.jpg
Rescued attachment CHASSIS 2.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 23/2/07 at 07:09 PM

Just a thought would it be possible to run the exhaust up the transmission tunnel?

Thanks
GAZ


JoelP - 25/2/07 at 12:47 AM

might cause issues with any wiring or fuel pipes in the tunnel, though these could be relocated if required. Would need insulating though id guess.


907 - 25/2/07 at 07:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
Just a thought would it be possible to run the exhaust up the transmission tunnel?

Thanks
GAZ



Hi Gaz.

As well as the issues that JoelP has raised there's also the issue of the need for space for the suspension travel on a solid axled car.
The rear end of the prop could well have 50 / 75mm of up & down movement.

I know you will not be keen on the idea of an external exhaust as it will detract from the shape of the body
but a Cobra style can might be the only answer for a book chassis. Some of the plain 3" pipe ones look quite good IMHO.

Googled images below.

Atb

Paul G
aka Dad Rescued attachment cobra-can-pm-s.jpg
Rescued attachment cobra-can-pm-s.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 25/2/07 at 09:18 AM

Its just a thought really.

If i run it under the car i will have issues with ride height. The tunnel on my chassis is open underneith which would aid cooling.

I could run it under the fibreglass sill but once again there are problems with cooling.

I can have side pipes but if i can avoid it i think i will, I dont think they will work with the design, Thanks for the pics though

Or I could have short pipes that exit through the vents behind the front wheels.

I am open to sugestions

Thanks chaps.

Oh I went to the SMART garage today and measured the Roadster's front screen, and I think it will fit, i might even be able to use the wipers.

Thanks again

GAZ


chriscook - 25/2/07 at 09:24 AM

Could you not put the exhaust inside the sill as the Fury and Phoenix do. It means you need to put heat shield inside the sill and NOT heatwrap the manifold.


Gaz 1977 - 25/2/07 at 09:32 AM

It could be a plan

If it was in the sill i could almost exit the pipes where i want.

Thanks

GAZ


Gaz 1977 - 26/2/07 at 06:34 PM

well here are the latest pics Rescued attachment FEB 26 FT 34.jpg
Rescued attachment FEB 26 FT 34.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 26/2/07 at 06:34 PM

and the side Rescued attachment FEB 26 SIDE.jpg
Rescued attachment FEB 26 SIDE.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 26/2/07 at 06:37 PM

and the rear 34

all work in progres

any comments would be very much appreciated. Rescued attachment 26 FEB REAR.jpg
Rescued attachment 26 FEB REAR.jpg


gottabedone - 27/2/07 at 08:19 PM

Hey Gaz,

The Vipers have a nice discrete side pipe arrangement, maybe some inspiration from there?

Keep up the good work

Steve


Gaz 1977 - 27/2/07 at 11:21 PM

thanks steve i will have a look into that,


the model has moved on well today, hopefully it will soon be in fibreglass.

Thanks again

GAZ


Gaz 1977 - 28/2/07 at 08:02 PM

I have spent the day making both sides the same (symmetry is a git)

At last I have some ideas on the front detailing, though some ideas for the headlights and the grill would be very helpfull.

Thanks, GAZ Rescued attachment feb 28 ft 34.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 28 ft 34.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 28/2/07 at 08:04 PM

by the way the front screen is from a SMART roadster with one inch trimmed off all the way around. Rescued attachment feb 28 low ft 34.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 28 low ft 34.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 28/2/07 at 08:10 PM

and at last the front. Like i say if anyone has ideas on the shape of the headlights that would be great. (the holes are air intakes)

Any comments or questions about the project would be cool.

Thanks people. Rescued attachment feb 28 front.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 28 front.jpg


David Jenkins - 28/2/07 at 08:13 PM

I think you're being a bit optimistic, think you'll get a pair of headlights in those gaps. You'll aslo need to watch out for the SVA dimensions (400mm from the widest bit, etc).
Bugger - your post arrived as I was typing - they're not where the lights go! In that case, scratch what I said...

Apart from that, I reckon it's looking really smart - and you reckon it'll go on a standard Locost chassis? If so, I think you may have a lot of interest!

As for the silencer - I wouldn't bother about concealing it - a Cobra-style external one would look very good.

Good work!
David

[Edited on 28/2/07 by David Jenkins]


Dale - 28/2/07 at 08:16 PM

Must say that is a very very nice front view. I would not want to spoil it with any projections or shaps showing for the lights. In that sense either pop ups or flush to the body under lexan or what ever lighting lense can be used.
dale


Gaz 1977 - 28/2/07 at 08:23 PM

thanks dave and dale. I realise that the pics can be deceptive as far as where the lights should go, I hope this helps.

I still have the other side and the back to do and the fibreglass time is booked in for three weeks ahhhhhhhh.

Thanks again.

GAZ Rescued attachment feb 28 front b.jpg
Rescued attachment feb 28 front b.jpg


David Jenkins - 28/2/07 at 08:28 PM

I have seen pictures of clay models made by big companies such as Ford, where they've been painted as though they were real cars - will you be doing that as part of your course?


Gaz 1977 - 28/2/07 at 08:42 PM

I think there might be a few people on the course who will be spraying the clay but my plan is:

Finish the clay model

make fibreglass molds and lay it up and produce a shell.

trim the shell and fit it to the scale chassis model (see back in the thred)

cut doors, roof and fit a vac formed glass area

design and make interior for the model

and go on holiday.

Come to think of it David it would fit your chassis, Fancy a job?

Thanks

GAZ


escort_innit - 28/2/07 at 08:49 PM

It's looking much more distinctive and aggressive!

[Edited on 28/2/07 by escort_innit]


andyps - 28/2/07 at 10:58 PM

With that crease to mount the front lights in I would have thought some projector lamps like Smart Roadster have might work set behind appropriately formed perspex.

Edited to add - Looks great by the way.

[Edited on 28/2/07 by andyps]


Mr Whippy - 1/3/07 at 04:39 PM

Rescued attachment thecar03.jpg
Rescued attachment thecar03.jpg


Mr Whippy - 1/3/07 at 04:40 PM


Gaz 1977 - 1/3/07 at 06:51 PM

as far as the lights are concerned I think that perspex covers could well be the plan.

I could use existing light units mounted into the fibreglass shell. I could shape the area that would be under the perspex to create a more product feel like a road car and maybe spray that area silver.

as far as the mr wippy pic, thats not exactly the look that i am going for but it made me smile. thanks.

As well as building the other side to match today i have had a little play with the cill. (i hope it shows in the pic)

Any got any comments.

thanks

GAZ Rescued attachment march 1 ft 34.jpg
Rescued attachment march 1 ft 34.jpg


Confused but excited. - 1/3/07 at 07:38 PM

Gaz, that looks awsome!
I have enjoyed wayching it develop. It has all the elegance of a 30s grand tourer, such as a Bugatti, with all the aggression of the Bat Mobile.
I think it would truly look unbelievable in a larger size such as an Aston.
Either way that is a real head turner. I can't wait to see the finished article.


Gaz 1977 - 1/3/07 at 08:29 PM

thanks for that.

I never know what to post on here as the design process is not a quick one.

with a bit of luck it should become alot more interesting in a couple of weeks or so when the mold and fibreglass shell is built.

Hopefully the fibreglass part of the project will be of use to people.

Thanks again.

GAZ


gottabedone - 1/3/07 at 10:17 PM

Hey Gaz,

Looking good!

Your dilema with the front lights may cause some head scratching! Options may be "frenched" a la Tuscan or even with a cover like the later version. You have two distinct lines flowing down the front of the car - one being the ridge on top of the wheel arch and the other being the edge of the bonnet bulge. These follow very different arcs. If these followed the same arc/shape, you would have more width to play with when trying to mount your lights both for aesthetic and legal reasons.

Keep up the good work

Steve


Mr Whippy - 2/3/07 at 08:41 AM

?Image deleted by owner


Gaz 1977 - 2/3/07 at 08:42 AM

thanks steve.

Yon might well have a point there.

Once i have got the thing symetrical i think there will be a fair amount of tweeking to get the design looking right.

I am fairly pleased with how it is going at the moment and i hope that it will turn out to be really good. In the ideal world it would be great if i could find someone to put it into production.

Thanks for the comments

GAZ


Mr Whippy - 2/3/07 at 08:43 AM

a bit nicer than 'The Car' but same location...Image deleted by owner


Gaz 1977 - 2/3/07 at 08:48 AM

thanks whippy

What car/concept is that?

I can normally spot these things

GAZ


TheGecko - 2/3/07 at 10:07 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
What car/concept is that?
VW EcoRacer concept.

Gaz, loving the work so far For the lights, given that you said they need to go on the creases, why not something very similar to the Elise, ie
Elise headlight detail
Elise headlight detail


Just embed the lights in an appropriately shaped recess in the crease, with a formed perspex cover.

Dominic


Gaz 1977 - 2/3/07 at 05:56 PM

thanks dom. I think you might well be wright.
i have to come up with a different shape to the elise but something along those lines could be the answer.

Today i have been trying to ge the side working a bit better, still not sure about it.

all comments very welcome

thanks
GAZ Rescued attachment march 2 ft34-side.jpg
Rescued attachment march 2 ft34-side.jpg


ChrisGamlin - 2/3/07 at 07:58 PM

Not sure if its been mentioned previously or not, but is the cockpit far enough back for a Locost type chassis?

If you look at a Locost in profile, the roll hoop is approximately in line with the rear axle, and the driver's head is probably ~20cm in front of this at most, whch would put the head very close (if not behind) the rearmost part of the roofline from what I can see.


Gaz 1977 - 2/3/07 at 10:47 PM

Hi Chris,

The pic is a standard lenth chassis over the model. The head is a little far back in the image but i am planning to move the seat forward and the bottom edge of the dash up to allow for the legs to clear. The roll bar could be modded. I measured the length from the steering wheel to the front edge of the screen and it is not dissimilar to that of my audi a2.

Thanks for the comments and keep them comming.

GAZ Rescued attachment trans side.jpg
Rescued attachment trans side.jpg


dnmalc - 3/3/07 at 08:36 AM

Great reading I love the side and rear quarter views, do you have a full on rear.
As to the front I support what has been said about the scoops and projector lamps but for me the lower air intakes let down the effect. Have you considered making the end of those eliptical rather than the inverted trapezoid you currrently have.


Gaz 1977 - 3/3/07 at 08:59 AM

Thanks for that. I have not managed to get the rear done yet, I am having enough problems with the rest of it.

I want to get the sides resolved before starting the rear but i hope to have some images by the middle of next week.

As for the lights i will have a good play next week. (i cant work on the model at the weekends as it is locked up at the uni due to health safety. I need supervision just incase i eat some clay)

I agree with you on the lower vents and they have been changed now though they still are not quite right. The vents in the pics are square because at the time i was making the front symetrical and corners are easier to measure.

I am going to do a bit of photoshoping today and try and resolve the design a little.

Thanks.

GAZ



ChrisGamlin - 3/3/07 at 03:35 PM

The head clearance behind the driver looks a little tight to me but might just be the picture, I dont think you'll get an effective rollbar in there as well though will you?

One other thing, make sure you leave sufficient bonnet height for popular engines, the front half of the bonnet line looks quite low and it would be a shame if you needed to spoil the look with bonnet bulges / holes in order to get a decent engine in there.

cheers

Chris

[Edited on 3/3/07 by ChrisGamlin]


Gaz 1977 - 3/3/07 at 06:59 PM

Hi Chris, You might well be right about the roll bar, I will have to move the roof back a little.

I have fitted a 2lt zetec in the scale model of the chassis and i have allowed 70mm of clearance over the top of the motor so that i am covered for the current pedestrian safety legislation.

Thanks.

GAZ Rescued attachment chassis.jpg
Rescued attachment chassis.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 3/3/07 at 07:09 PM

I built a solid foam model of the chassis onto which i put the clay, the advantage of doing this is that if i hit foam when carving the clay i know that I have gone too far and in theory i know that the fibreglass body will fit.

Thanks again

GAZ Rescued attachment foam.jpg
Rescued attachment foam.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 4/3/07 at 12:13 PM

well i have been busy on the old photoshop. I have stuck some elise lights on it, i will have a play with lights in the air intakes from a different view.

Anyone got any ideas on what colour it should be?



[Edited on 4/3/07 by Gaz 1977] Rescued attachment 3 march ft 34 flat small.jpg
Rescued attachment 3 march ft 34 flat small.jpg


David Jenkins - 4/3/07 at 01:18 PM

Not much wrong with the colour you've picked - metallic bluish-grey.

I like Toyota's metallic blue, or Rover's metallic red, but I'm not sure how they'd suit your car. A sporty car always looks good in red, though.

DJ


Gaz 1977 - 4/3/07 at 01:24 PM

here you go David. Rescued attachment 3 march ft 34 flat small red.jpg
Rescued attachment 3 march ft 34 flat small red.jpg


qwertyuiop - 4/3/07 at 04:35 PM

hello there gaz some beatuiful work going on!
just my interpretation try if possible with your constraints to push the design a bit further for more wow factor, sorry to be a bit harsh but try push harder, keep up the top work id like to see a full size one,
check out my rossa corsa version Rescued attachment ferraro ttemp.jpg
Rescued attachment ferraro ttemp.jpg


qwertyuiop - 4/3/07 at 04:45 PM

third time lucky! sorry for big image size here is the scaled one sorry again Rescued attachment ferralfa2.jpg
Rescued attachment ferralfa2.jpg


ChrisGamlin - 4/3/07 at 07:12 PM

Maybe editing/deleting the post with the HUUUGE image might help things?


Gaz 1977 - 4/3/07 at 10:57 PM

Qwertyuiop,

Thank you for the suggestions for my design. Just a few things I'd like to ask back:

As I am trying to refine my design, can you explain the bits of your suggestions, and why you think they are an improvement?

I don't know how much of the thread you have looked at, but my design is an attempt to make a design which people can create on an existing locost chassis - So importantly, it has to be feasible! I know that i have to make it interesting, but things like the glass in the doors comprimises this aim slightly!

Also, I know I showed a red version of my design, but it is supposed to be unique. Did you think it looked too much like an Alfa? If so, I just wondered why.

Any comments are welcome,

Cheers,

Gaz


Pezza - 4/3/07 at 11:19 PM

I reckon it looks great pal
If it'd fir on an Indy chassis i'd have one like a shot


oadamo - 5/3/07 at 12:12 AM

its looking very good id go for the old suicide doors just for something a bit diffrent and prob make it easyer to get out of. and you could use prespex for the windows so you can use what shape you want and keep costs down
if you do make some full size ones ill buy one. how much ?


Gaz 1977 - 5/3/07 at 09:03 AM

Thanks Chaps,

The door idea could be interesting,

The front screen is from a SMART Roadster and I think you are right in that the other glass should be perspex. I will have a look into using a production rear screen as it might be nice to have it heated.

As for cost, so far the model has a one quarter scale price.

I have already blown the budget on the haynes book.


Mr Whippy - 5/3/07 at 10:35 AM

looking fab.

where's the wipers going? Am I going to have to drill some holes in the glass or are they going to lift up with the engine cover...oops

You know some black plastic vents for the demist wouldn't go amiss either.

There's only one colour that goes with that car, ferrari red...u know I'm right

a plastic loovered rear window like an F40 would be my choice and keep it light last thing it needs if a fat TVR butt. I think I'll start saving my pennies for this


bartonp - 5/3/07 at 12:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
Hi Chris, You might well be right about the roll bar, I will have to move the roof back a little.

I have fitted a 2lt zetec in the scale model of the chassis and i have allowed 70mm of clearance over the top of the motor so that i am covered for the current pedestrian safety legislation.

Thanks.

GAZ


WOW! What a big mug of tea....


Mr Whippy - 5/3/07 at 01:11 PM

almost as big as my tigger coffee mug I use to keep me awake at work


Gaz 1977 - 5/3/07 at 07:27 PM

as you might well have guessed i havent got as far a sorting the wipers yet. its hard to do modelmaking when you shake so much, what with all the coffee.

I must admit i am not a big fan of red, I have spent too much time T CUTing faded paint in the past.

I havent done much to the model today, just making it Symetrical.

Thanks for the comments

GAZ


David Jenkins - 5/3/07 at 07:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
I must admit i am not a big fan of red,


I'll have to be Toyota's metallic blue then!


Gaz 1977 - 5/3/07 at 08:15 PM

silly question i know but what kind of blue is it? What car is it on?

if i get an idea i will post a pic on here.

Thanks

GAZ


David Jenkins - 5/3/07 at 08:40 PM

It's a mid- to dark-blue - found on most of their cars.

Here's the best I can find on Google - I'm not sure if it's the Toyota colour, but it's the closest one I could find. It's not a colour that photographs well, but it's very striking when you stand next to a car in their showroom.

David


gottabedone - 5/3/07 at 08:52 PM

Hey Gaz,

A couple of thoughts for you:

As far as size goes, it seems that a lot of builders are making or buying their chassis oversize anyway. Could the +50mm chassis give you that little extra perspective wise. i.e. that little extra width will keep the car in proportion and still give you room for a roll bar etc.

If you have problems selecting a rear screen that matches your body shape then can you go the route of the pininfarina styled Peugeot 406 coupe and have a recessed rear window.

Colour is also very much down to personal preference and perception. People may hate a green car because an xyx they owned yars ago was a shed. Look at the two extremes of pearlescent paint - TVR and Nissan Micra. IMO Renault did a nice dark blue on the Meganes circa 2002.
Keep up the good work


regards

Steve


Gaz 1977 - 5/3/07 at 10:07 PM

firstly, Nice blue David, i will sort it out and post it on here.

I see where you are coming from on the chassis width. The original idea was to follow the book chassis. Since then the new book has come out, (bugger) I think that might be wider but i am not sure, I will have to ask Chris. Unfortunately it is a bit late to change the chassis on the model but if/when i build it full size it would be a serious consideration. The model is a strange thing to photograph it looks wider in the flesh.

Thanks to everyone.

GAZ


Gaz 1977 - 5/3/07 at 10:23 PM

What do you think of the blue one? Rescued attachment 3 march ft 34 BLUE DAVE.jpg
Rescued attachment 3 march ft 34 BLUE DAVE.jpg


andyps - 6/3/07 at 02:50 PM

The blue looks very good - nice colour which seems to show the contours well.

Editied to add - never mind making it for a wider chassis, just make sure it is wide enough for Sierra running gear, and for a chassis 2 inches taller than book. If you do that, and make it open top I will seriously consider buying a body from you

[Edited on 6/3/07 by andyps]


chrisg - 6/3/07 at 03:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
firstly, Nice blue David, i will sort it out and post it on here.

I see where you are coming from on the chassis width. The original idea was to follow the book chassis. Since then the new book has come out, (bugger) I think that might be wider but i am not sure, I will have to ask Chris. Unfortunately it is a bit late to change the chassis on the model but if/when i build it full size it would be a serious consideration. The model is a strange thing to photograph it looks wider in the flesh.

Thanks to everyone.

GAZ


It's abot 50mm wider than the book Locost mate!

Cheers

Chris


David Jenkins - 6/3/07 at 04:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
What do you think of the blue one?


Looks good - but it's very hard to photograph that blue, let alone represent it in a graphics package!

If you're out and about in the next few days, have a look out for a blue Toyota - it's a popular colour. Someone also mentioned that Renault have a splendid metallic blue - worth looking out for that as well.

It's looking very good now....

David


Gaz 1977 - 6/3/07 at 04:39 PM

thanks chaps.
David has already sent me the overall widths of his car (outer edge of wheels)

If someone could send me the widths of one with sierra running gear i can measure up the body model.

I might well find that the body is already wide enough as the model has fairly big wheels.

If i was to build it full size i am sure that i could lose the extra 50mm in the bonnet and arches without changing the design much. I might even find that one shell could fit a variety of chassis.
Before i build it full size i need a double garage preferably with a house attached .

I will have a measure up of the body and post it on here asap.

thanks.

Gaz


Gaz 1977 - 6/3/07 at 05:48 PM

Right i have had a measure up of the widths of the model.

The width of the arches at the rear is 1620mm

The width across the front arches is 1540mm

All comments on this will be greatfully recieved. I need to work out an average with to accomodate the majority of cars. I hope that we can come up with dimentions where people will be able to adjust their cars to the body by changing their wheels (different ET etc)

Thanks.

GAZ


Gaz 1977 - 7/3/07 at 06:25 PM

well another day has been spent making the thing symetrical. I hope by the end fo the week to be able to start working on the back Rescued attachment 7 march ft.jpg
Rescued attachment 7 march ft.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 7/3/07 at 06:26 PM

and the side 3/4.

any comments would be welcome.

Thanks

GAZ Rescued attachment 7 march ft 34.jpg
Rescued attachment 7 march ft 34.jpg


JoelP - 7/3/07 at 10:34 PM

thrumbs up from me, the front looks less tongue like now


Gaz 1977 - 8/3/07 at 10:20 AM

Thanks, I still have to build the plastic grill bit that contains the wipers (cant think of the name) I hope that it will shorten the appearance of the bonnet a little more as it still reminds me of the lead singer of KISS.

Thanks again

Gaz

[Edited on 8/3/07 by Gaz 1977]


Gaz 1977 - 8/3/07 at 10:26 AM

the simmons GtiImage deleted by owner


Mr Whippy - 8/3/07 at 01:45 PM

it looks like a snake now and it has fangs!

fab.

I will check that my 225 wheels will fit, I'll be mighty p%ssed off if they don't! but I supose I could always narrow the wishbones or something.

I think my plan of attack would be get my indi sva'd with the 7 bodywork and the aeroscreen and then convert it to use one of your shells. I'm still dead set on the red, maybe even metalic candly! oh how amazing would that look

I know the windscreen is a smart roadster one but what about the side glass?

Time scale wise what are you looking at for producing the shells or are you going to get a firm to do that. I might just be one of your first customers

Keep it up, you've got it spot on, now do the back and remember light not fat...

I have the round F40 lights in mind for mine.


Mr Whippy - 8/3/07 at 02:10 PM

We will need a name for this car...

Could have competition then you could mold the name in to the back panel, yeah!

see the vent, why not make it out of ally sheet with say 20mm pressed holes (as in pressed with the hole edges curved down. This I think would be more modern and easier to make.

I have printed out the blue car picture and shown it to the guys at work, all are very impressed.

[Edited on 8/3/07 by Mr Whippy]


Mr Whippy - 8/3/07 at 06:16 PM

Right it's not great as I'm not using my usual software but here's a pic next to my car for scale. I measured out the wheel base of my MK and marked it on the ground with two cans. Rescued attachment new ca and old.jpg
Rescued attachment new ca and old.jpg


chrisg - 8/3/07 at 06:24 PM

Crickey!!!!

how nice does that look??

cheers

Chris


Gaz 1977 - 8/3/07 at 09:31 PM

nice work mac whippy.

As for side glass i was thinking of plastic, i'm still not sure what is happening with the roof/doors.

It does need a name and i am open to suggestions as the only one i have come up with is the "R soul"

I have no idea when i will build it full size i need to finish the degree first so that is the next few months gone, then i need a garrage, it might be a while yet.

What i need is a company to take up the design, I think once it is finished it could hold its own in the current market.

I have started the back today. (at last) i should have some rough pics up on here tomorow.

Thanks

GAZ


Fred W B - 9/3/07 at 06:01 AM

Very very nice. I'm loving the Zagota bubbles.

Cheer

Fred W B


Gaz 1977 - 9/3/07 at 06:03 PM

here at last some rear views, its the early stages and there is lots still to do. feel free to comment.

GAZ Rescued attachment REAR 34 R.jpg
Rescued attachment REAR 34 R.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 9/3/07 at 06:06 PM

the rectangle is the number plate

the large circle is the rear light

the small circle is the exhaust


gaz Rescued attachment REAR.jpg
Rescued attachment REAR.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 9/3/07 at 06:07 PM

and here is the last one

Thanks

GAZ Rescued attachment reR 34.jpg
Rescued attachment reR 34.jpg


Mr Whippy - 11/3/07 at 08:43 PM

not bad, a bit lotus. Why not use the sharp roofline over the door and continue it over the rear?

I know i said not fat but this is also nice... Rescued attachment img06.jpg
Rescued attachment img06.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 12/3/07 at 06:18 PM

well here you go, these are the latest pics Rescued attachment 1.jpg
Rescued attachment 1.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 12/3/07 at 06:19 PM

the rear is getting a little more resolved all comments gratefully recieved. Rescued attachment 2.jpg
Rescued attachment 2.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 12/3/07 at 06:21 PM

and here is the side.



Thanks to all who have commented so far and keep them comming.

GAZ Rescued attachment 3.jpg
Rescued attachment 3.jpg


sgraber - 12/3/07 at 06:26 PM

This is fun to watch develop.

I hope that you are able to find a way to turn this into a full-size project. It would be a shame to see it end at the end of your school term.

Steve


Gaz 1977 - 12/3/07 at 06:47 PM

Thanks steve,

I hope that the project will be picked up by somebody, I would love to be envolved in building it full size. In about three months we have the degree show in london and i will be inviting as many kit car companies as i can and it will be open to people on here once i have the final dates.

If i cant find anyone interested i will build it myself.

I would like to take the finished model to the big kitcar shows to try and drum up some interest, we shall see.

If anyone has any ideas on who to approach and how that would be great.

Thanks

GAZ


Tralfaz - 12/3/07 at 07:13 PM

Looking good GAZ. I like what you are doing in the rear so far, love the side, especially the rear 3/4 view. I just can't fall in love with the front.


Keep at it!

Best of Luck,
T


Mr Whippy - 13/3/07 at 08:36 AM

ahh leave the front it's done

I think if you get the doors right and make some sort of boot lid then the bodyshell will sell very well. You'll have to be cleaver with the mounting points so the body can be lifted off and on quite easily. Weight as well could be an issue if youíre not careful, thin as possible.

I really hope to see this as a kit.


Gaz 1977 - 13/3/07 at 09:06 AM

thanks for the comments.

Although i like the basic idea of the front i am not completely happy with the grill arangement as it does not have the same degree of subtlety as the rest of the design.

The back is on its way except for the rear glass area which needs some revision in some way and to be honnest i am not sure how at the moment. Any ideas?

I am quite keen on the idea of having a boot on the back. Rather then it opening from the top what do we think of it hinging from the bottom of the surface that has the number plate fitted to it?

If anyone has any ideas on the design or how to get it into production please comment.

Thanks again

GAZ


Mr Whippy - 13/3/07 at 04:05 PM

Have you discussed it with MK engineering or some of the other companies? They I'm sure would be interested in marketing such a product. Would you be making the full size form, if so that would make it a lot easier to get backing. Just think how many folk, including myself were quite intent on making a body for their car but now could use this.

You could do a poll to get an idea of the number of interested people and what folk would consider paying for it. Or how many consider things like a boot, glass side windows important.

As for the front, I say leave it. Itís looks very snake like and in proportion. There is a danger you will start to fiddle with it now and spoil the clean lines. All the best supercars have little in the way of fussy details. If folk later want to stick vents and bumps all over it leave that to them, youíll never please everyone so donít even try.


AdamR - 13/3/07 at 05:59 PM

Been following this thread for a couple of weeks without comment, but just had to chip in some praise now you've got the back sorted... it looks amazing!

I'm positive there's a market out there for this sort of thing. I know I'm not the only builder that is not totally enamoured with the classic looks of the 7. An affordable bolt-on alternative like yours would sell hundreds I'm sure.

Couple of thoughts:
- A topless derivative would be easy to produce, appeal to a wider market, and potentially save hassle of sourcing glass.
- A key decision will be what sizes of chassis it will accommodate... most people use sierra track these days, but with varying chassis widths. Hopefully all would be able to fit - mine included!.

I really hope this project makes the jump to full size.

All the best!
Adam


Bob C - 13/3/07 at 06:00 PM

Still looks mint Gaz & I still want one. I felt you were losing your way a little around page13 - 15 but you've pulled it all back!!!
Watching with interest
Bob


Gaz 1977 - 13/3/07 at 09:47 PM

Thanks for all the comments chaps.

I will try and address some questions (please bare in mind i have just got back from the pub)

Topless version.
There will be one but at the moment it depends on time. If all goes well there will be enough time to do both versions in model form. If i am short of time there will at least be a photoshop version like the image a few pages back.

Chassis Width.
When it comes to the full size one, I am 90% sure that i would go for the sierra width. At the moment the model is solid escort axel but with wide wheels so the body is not far off the width that would be needed for the wider chassis. (mac whippy have you had time to measure yours yet?)

In the next few days i will try to contact a few of the kit car mags and try and drum up some interest as far as companies are concerned that way.

Anyway here are todays pics Rescued attachment 2.jpg
Rescued attachment 2.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 13/3/07 at 09:51 PM

I have tried to just tidy the model today so no major changes. Sorry Rescued attachment 3.jpg
Rescued attachment 3.jpg


gottabedone - 13/3/07 at 09:51 PM

Hey Gaz,
in my archive is a foty of the Mazda Kabura (loads more on Google). It's a bit more watered down than your vision but they have used the headlights to blend the front arches and the bonnet area.
The cobra coupe has to be my all time favourite and i think that you may be able to pick up the detail lines from the rear arches and carry them around the rear. This would allow you to mount your exhausts and number plate in true GT40 style.
7 purists will say that you won't be able to put your exhausts up high etc. etc. but hey - it's your design so have fun.

regards

Steve


Gaz 1977 - 13/3/07 at 09:53 PM

One Day it will jump to full size. I have spent too much time on this for it not to.

Thanks to everyone

GAZ Rescued attachment 1.jpg
Rescued attachment 1.jpg


gottabedone - 13/3/07 at 10:01 PM

Gaz,

we posted the last two at the same time! the side is looking good - could you use the top of the side vent as the base of the door - it may help with the shut lines. You may be able to incorporate a door handle under there and keep it hidden. This may help to keep your sides uncluttered......maybe even go the Alfa 147 route and have the door handle in the rear pillar.


Gaz 1977 - 14/3/07 at 08:49 AM

thanks Gotta

Great minds think alike.

Keep looking on here

GAZ


Mr Whippy - 14/3/07 at 09:23 AM

I say its finished. Looks perfect from all angles.

What a great surface finish you've achieved, is there any shrinkage as it dries or does it even dry?? All in all a very interesting exercise. You should do another course now - 'Putting a body shell into production'

You could even use the model to make vacuum formed body shells for R/C cars...

[Edited on 14/3/07 by Mr Whippy]


sgraber - 14/3/07 at 03:13 PM

I would like to see your door shut line and the shut line for the bonnet incorporated into the shape. It's such a great shape right now that I am worried the shut lines will break the flow. Also, the door glass: will that be the complete side piece, or is there going to be a seal between two pieces, the door and the B-pillar piece? (sorry if you covered this already, this is a loooong thread, and it's obvious people are starved for some 'style' to go with their lightness.)


Mr Whippy - 14/3/07 at 03:28 PM

IMO I think that it should not be a flip front but have a separate bonnet. Why? Well the front wings can be bolted to the engine bay sides for simplicity and strength, the bonnet looks like it will have to be molded separately anyway due to the cutouts next to the lights plus no wobbly lights, god I hate that

A lift off roof section (might be able to be stored under the bonnet) would be nice, as would the side windows at the least being removable (stored behind seat)

Oh and this is how the door was going to fit -


Gaz 1977 - 14/3/07 at 07:20 PM

Well here we go with todays pics

As for the clay it softens when heated and hardens when cool. I have not tryed it yet but you can polish the surface.
Its like posh plastacine. Big Boy play'doh. Rescued attachment 1.jpg
Rescued attachment 1.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 14/3/07 at 07:39 PM

By pure luck i marked some shutlines on the thing today. the glass will be in two parts. Rescued attachment 2.jpg
Rescued attachment 2.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 14/3/07 at 07:42 PM

i hope that there will be storage for the glass and roof panels in the back, it is hard to judge as the model is solid at the moment. Once i have a fibreglass shell it will be easier to see what space i have. Rescued attachment 3.jpg
Rescued attachment 3.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 14/3/07 at 07:44 PM

tomorow i will try and sort the lower grill out.

Thanks for all the help

GAZ Rescued attachment 4.jpg
Rescued attachment 4.jpg


andyps - 15/3/07 at 09:49 AM

That is looking really good - with doors like that if you could make them removable then you would be getting close to having an open version too. Not sure what impact that would have on the rear window in terms of pressure building up inside but might be worth considering. Maybe the rear window could be removable too.


sgraber - 15/3/07 at 04:01 PM

My personal preference - for simplicity sake - I would look into making the door assembly be a gull-wing setup where the entire unit hinges upward. Pull hinge pins to remove and stow in the garage for nice, sunny days.

As for the side glass/perspex; make them removable from the inside, and stowable in pockets built into the doors on the inside.


Tralfaz - 15/3/07 at 04:07 PM

To make a firm gullwing might necessitate making the pillars quite a bit thicker than he has now, and visibility might start to suffer...

T


Gaz 1977 - 15/3/07 at 04:41 PM

This is an old pic from back in the thred.(god its long) I have looked at different ways to do the doors and i think this is the best. You can remove the glass and the roof section on sunny days and still keep the doors


Gaz 1977 - 15/3/07 at 04:43 PM

here we go with todays pics. Air could be channeled to the rad and there is room on the front for a motorcycle number plate Rescued attachment 1.jpg
Rescued attachment 1.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 15/3/07 at 04:44 PM

all comments welcome Rescued attachment 2.jpg
Rescued attachment 2.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 15/3/07 at 04:46 PM

and here is the last one.

Many thanks to everyone for the comments.

GAZ Rescued attachment 3.jpg
Rescued attachment 3.jpg


Tralfaz - 15/3/07 at 04:52 PM

Gaz,

I think that door arangement is better, though I think I would prefer to see the glass stay with the doors. The door couldn't scissor straight up, they would have to kick out a few degrees.

T


dl_peabody - 15/3/07 at 09:39 PM

quote:

I hope that the project will be picked up by somebody, I would love to be envolved in building it full size. In about three months we have the degree show in london and i will be inviting as many kit car companies as i can and it will be open to people on here once i have the final dates.



Heres an idea.....if you could scan it when you are complete then it could be put int o autocad (or similar).....

JackMcCornack of http://www.kineticvehicles.com/
is working on ideas for a full bodied seven.
See these threads....
"Aftermarket" full bodies?
and
2k7 "Slick Brick"--bodybuilding

Just a thought....

[Edited on 15/3/07 by dl_peabody]


D.A.Z - 15/3/07 at 09:45 PM

i have read most of the thread,very interesting,i do hope it hasnt been said it reminds me a bit of a t350 very nice


Guinness - 15/3/07 at 11:37 PM

Gaz

Can I just check, your old man will be producing these bodies in aluminium, right?

Cheers

Mike


P.S. It looks great, and if you ever want a blast out to the NE7ER's give me a shout!


907 - 16/3/07 at 12:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Guinness
Gaz

Can I just check, your old man will be producing these bodies in aluminium, right?

Cheers

Mike




Yup, your spot on.

Orders required at the rate of one every two years.

Paul G


Tony Man Pet Stottie Cake - 16/3/07 at 09:02 AM

I think there have been comments made on this before, but what thoughts have you got on colour choices?

I know people have been commenting on the usual reds and dark blues and greens, but seeing that TVR especially, think how adventrous it could be.

Like satin shades like the BMW Z4 coupe concept, which was satin silver, or Renault colours like Nordic Green, or a white both of which are subtely perlescent? It could add a different twist to what you are doing!

Just a thought!

Tony Man pet 'why aye' stottie cake.


escort_innit - 16/3/07 at 04:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by D.A.Z
i have read most of the thread,very interesting,i do hope it hasnt been said it reminds me a bit of a t350 very nice



A little bit, but the TVR looks quite cute (wolf in sheep's clothing?!) Gaz's looks far more aggressive because it's more angular.


the_parson - 16/3/07 at 05:48 PM

I wish I'd found this thread sooner, it's taken me an hour to get through the bugger...

Very nice work Gaz. I know feck all about car design other than to say on a purely aesthetic level it looks outstanding. Interesting to see how it's progressed over the last few weeks.


Gaz 1977 - 18/3/07 at 02:42 PM

well i have been busy on photoshop

Thanks for the comments


gaz Rescued attachment fromt ren 17 march small.jpg
Rescued attachment fromt ren 17 march small.jpg


Fred W B - 18/3/07 at 03:05 PM

Hay Gaz, I see you have a badge on the nose, what are you going to call your masterpiece?

Cheers

Fred W B


Daimo_45 - 18/3/07 at 03:08 PM

Looks brilliant. The car reminds me of a Ferrari 599 and 612, Chev Corvette, TVR 350 and Alfa 8c all mixed into one.


David Jenkins - 18/3/07 at 03:12 PM

When looking at these photoshop masterpieces and comparing it to posh production cars it's easy to forget just how small this car's going to be - the earlier image with the car next to a regular tin-top (by Mr Whippy?) was really good for scale.

Maybe he can do another? Please?

David


Gaz 1977 - 18/3/07 at 03:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fred W B
Hay Gaz, I see you have a badge on the nose, what are you going to call your masterpiece?

Cheers

Fred W B


My girlfriend suggested calling it Epona - 'The Celtic horse goddess whose authority extended even beyond death, accompanying the soul on its final journey.'
That's because she likes horses!

Gaz


Mr Whippy - 20/3/07 at 01:24 PM

Some companyís might be concerned by the complexity of the shape and therefore just how complicated the moulds will have to be. Itís all very well coming up with a nice shape but it must be reasonably easy to produce within the limitations of glassfiber, for example it is very difficult to prevent voids occurring at tight angles and you have plenty of those. My beach buggy looks like a big jelly mould for this very reason. This shell is clearly going to need several mould sections and each join will leave a flash line. These will then have to be removed from each shell and the more sections the more flash lines, this can be a real drag on a gel coat colour. Also sharp edges tend to consist purely of gel coat, which chips at the slightest knock and a pain when this happens whether the shell is painted or not.

Before you show any companies the body, I would if I were you put some thought into this side of things. Perhaps use the model to create scale production moulds and use them to make a copy of the model. This way it will be a much more attractive proposition if a manufacturer sees that this have been addressed.

You may also get a higher score.


Gaz 1977 - 20/3/07 at 06:59 PM

Thanks for the comments chaps,

I take your point whippy on the fibreglass front, I hope to have the clay finished by the end of the week and then its mould making time and fun with fibreglass. I will obviously put pics up of the fibreglass process. I expect that if the thing went into production there would have to be a few changes made.but thats life. The Uni like you bare materials in mind but not worry to much as the design is a concept. You should see some of the other stuff being built in the workshop at the moment. If i am ever brave enough i will put some pics on here.

Thanks again Rescued attachment 1.jpg
Rescued attachment 1.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 21/3/07 at 08:36 AM

I hope you guys can help me, I need some suggestions on front and rear lights to go under clear plastic covers, I would like projectors on the front but i have no idea what is available.

I can not strees how helpful everyone has been on so many thanks

GAZ


Mr Whippy - 21/3/07 at 09:27 AM

If projectors are what your after why not use the smart car route again and rob the roadsters lights?? They look quite trendy and simply need rehoused in the new shell under vac formed covers. There's also the fiat with the frenched rear lights (can't recall the name, usually in yellow).

I for one really want to see the other projects in there, what are they making????


Gaz 1977 - 21/3/07 at 12:10 PM

Thanks but i really dont want to cut production lights around, I am after an aftermaket unit

GAZ


Tralfaz - 21/3/07 at 12:27 PM

Hella makes 90mm dia Headlight modules that you could fab into a custom housing.

UK Source:

http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/

Measured Drawing:

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/hella%20images/68137.jpg

These are quite nice but very pricey.

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/50mm_modules.asp

[Edited on 21/3/07 by Tralfaz]


Mr Whippy - 21/3/07 at 12:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
Thanks but i really dont want to cut production lights around, I am after an aftermaket unit

GAZ


Actually I meant just use the lamps and make your own housing, which I would have assumed is simply a molded section in the wing?


Gaz 1977 - 21/3/07 at 03:25 PM

i understand what you ment but one of the things that i have to bare in mind is the cost applications if the project was to go into production, buying lights from mercedies would not be a cheap option, your right about the wing fitting though.

I have taken some pics of the other models and i will post them when i get home.

Thanks

GAZ


Gaz 1977 - 21/3/07 at 08:06 PM

There is nothing of much interest going on with my model. I am just tidying it up ready for molding so as promiced here are a few pics of other stuff being built it the workshop at the moment.

No 1 Neils rolls royce, the driver sits in the cabin on top and the passengers in the belly so to speek. Rescued attachment neil.jpg
Rescued attachment neil.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 21/3/07 at 08:07 PM

No 2 Bens 5 series BMW Rescued attachment ben.jpg
Rescued attachment ben.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 21/3/07 at 08:08 PM

steves fuel cell Ferrari

[Edited on 21/3/07 by Gaz 1977] Rescued attachment steve.jpg
Rescued attachment steve.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 21/3/07 at 08:10 PM

Plumb's Lotus four wheel drive off road buggy thing Rescued attachment plumbs.jpg
Rescued attachment plumbs.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 21/3/07 at 08:14 PM

thanks Tralfaz for the links i will have a good look later

GAZ


Mr Whippy - 22/3/07 at 12:25 AM



Those other models are great! I especially like the rolls and I thought the current one was a monster that would be the size of a bus!!

You need to get a Barbie doll for the beach buggy though

I'm so jealous, wish I had gone on such a fun course. You'll have to show us pics of all the models once they're finished.


Mr Whippy - 22/3/07 at 11:14 AM

Saying that I think the roof is wrong at the back of the rolls as that is a signature area of a car and is a lot more angular on a rolls limo. The front wing and rear corner look spot on. Done in black as a royal car with gold pin stripes and cream panels, well wow simply astounding, love it . Neil do not do this as a pink thunderbirds car!!

picture below to show rear roof line...


Confused but excited. - 22/3/07 at 09:31 PM

It's not yours, hasn't got spoilers on!


Gaz 1977 - 23/3/07 at 12:38 AM

I thought that I would print off a copy of this thread just incase something went wrong and it has taken me just under three hours.

So a big thanks to everyone that has commented on my project and if there are people watching who have not felt the need to comment, feel free.

The clay part of the model (with a bit of luck) should be finished tomorow/today so there will be plently of pics on here over the weekend.

I will start to build the molds on tuesday/wednesday and with a bit of luck i will have a fibreglass shell in a week or so.

Thanks again.

GAZ


WanchaiWarrior - 23/3/07 at 12:54 AM

Gaz,

Have kept an eye on your progress from the start and would like to say that you've done a stunning job. The shape and lines of your new body for the '7' style chassis would be a great addition to the kit car market if it ever went into production.


Gaz 1977 - 23/3/07 at 06:03 PM

The clay is very nearly finished now, I think that the design is fairly sorted now.

The molds will be made on wednesday.

Feel free to comment before i mold it so that i can change it. Rescued attachment 1.jpg
Rescued attachment 1.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 23/3/07 at 06:04 PM

no 2 Rescued attachment 2.jpg
Rescued attachment 2.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 23/3/07 at 06:05 PM

no 3 Rescued attachment 3.jpg
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Gaz 1977 - 23/3/07 at 06:05 PM

no 4 Rescued attachment 4.jpg
Rescued attachment 4.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 23/3/07 at 06:06 PM

no 5 Rescued attachment 5.jpg
Rescued attachment 5.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 23/3/07 at 06:08 PM

no 6

I just have a few mods to do on the rear, exhausts etc. I also need to work on some symetry.

Thanks for the interest

GAZ Rescued attachment 6.jpg
Rescued attachment 6.jpg


dilley - 24/3/07 at 12:29 PM

Do you have any idea on what the price would be to supply one?

If you need someone to make the body I know a good person in Bury st Edmunds.

[Edited on 24/3/07 by dilley]


Gaz 1977 - 24/3/07 at 03:44 PM

I need to do some research in this area, I suppose that the price of the fibreglass will depend on the complexity and the number of molds required in the construction and at the moment i am not to sure on numbers.

If anyone can quote me the fibreglass prices from various models i would be very interested to have a look.

If i can find a company to take my design on the issue of price will be out of my control. If i have to produce it myself i would be very interested to have a chat with your friend from Bury as its only a short drive from home.

I will be a Stoneleigh with the model so that might be a good time to find some out some information.

Thanks for the help.

GAZ


David Jenkins - 24/3/07 at 03:51 PM

Gaz,

I'm going to sound like a misery-guts here, but making an external design is surely only half the battle. You still have to consider the mechanical aspects of connecting the body components onto the chassis, filling the blanks between the body and the frame, and all that gubbins.

Or is this an as-yet hidden aspect of your design?

ATB,
David


Gaz 1977 - 24/3/07 at 03:57 PM

You got it Dave. Once i have the shell for the model i will be able to cut it into its separate parts then fit them to the chassis.

Although doing it in model form will not be perfect it will give me a good idea of how the full size will work. Gotta Start somewhere. And gotta go to Ikea now.

Thanks Dave

GAZ


Mr Whippy - 25/3/07 at 03:30 AM

Damn fine job you've certainly got a lot of talent. Are you going to finish the other side or are you going to do moulds for just half a shell? Don't change a thing now as it's just right and I'm glad it's not flipfront

I was showing the guys at work Neilís wild rolls, everyone thought it was great if a bit OTT. Could you post a few pics when he's finished it?? I'm a bit of a rolls fan myself and might get a shadow next year for a bit of fun

Keep it up

cripes look at the time!!! I haven't even been to bed yet



[Edited on 25/3/07 by Mr Whippy]


Gaz 1977 - 25/3/07 at 12:59 PM

The other side will be finished off tomorow ready for molding.

I will post pics of all the other models being built as and when they are nearing completion.

Thanks

GAZ


907 - 25/3/07 at 01:31 PM

Tee He

I see you have edited your last post Mr Whippy.


Sometimes you gain, sometimes you lose.

Paul G


Mr Whippy - 26/3/07 at 07:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by 907
Tee He

I see you have edited your last post Mr Whippy.


Sometimes you gain, sometimes you lose.

Paul G




pah I hadn't count on the even my computer being out had to check the telly to find out


Gaz 1977 - 26/3/07 at 06:35 PM

The Clay model is now finished ready for molding on wednesday.

All comments welcome.

Thanks

GAZ Rescued attachment 1.jpg
Rescued attachment 1.jpg


Gaz 1977 - 26/3/07 at 06:37 PM

sorry for the pic of me, but you should be looking at the model


Thanks

GAZ Rescued attachment 2.jpg
Rescued attachment 2.jpg


907 - 26/3/07 at 07:33 PM

Well done Gaz


That's 'kin smart.

Paul G

aka Dad


David Jenkins - 26/3/07 at 07:58 PM

Gaz,

I hope you're keeping all these pictures safe - nothing better for getting coursework marks than showing how something has developed, why changes were made, and so on.

It's looking bleedin' good, though...


TheGecko - 26/3/07 at 11:11 PM

Well done Gaz - you should be very proud of that. If it looks that good in clay, it's going to look fantastic with a good gloss colour finish.

Looking forward to the next stage.

Dominic


WanchaiWarrior - 27/3/07 at 01:47 AM

Well done, that is very very nice.


Jon Ison - 27/3/07 at 02:06 AM

Gaz, my 1st post in this thread.

That is amazing, hats off and respect too you, I sincerely hope all your hard work so far see's you take the project too a successful end.


Mr Whippy - 27/3/07 at 12:22 PM

what a great R/C car that would make

well done, when am I getting my body shell....?


oh yeah, keep going with this, as we want to see the next stage. Maybe on a new thread though.

[Edited on 27/3/07 by Mr Whippy]


emsfactory - 27/3/07 at 01:42 PM

Very impressive. Really enjoyed reading through this thread.
Looks great.


Gaz 1977 - 27/3/07 at 08:03 PM

Thanks chaps,

Tomorow I start the mold making, The process might be of use to people so i will take plenty of photos. I might well start a new thread probably called 'locost design cont'

Thanks again for all the comments

GAZ


gottabedone - 28/3/07 at 12:51 PM

Hey Gaz,

It's finished then - well done it looks wicked.

I hope that you don't damage the model whilst taking a mould of it as you should keep it for posterity.

It's already been mentioned about mating the body to the chassis - you know it fits so it's all about the logistics of getting access to everything under the bodywork. A seven is so easy to work on as it has minimal bodywork.


Gaz 1977 - 28/3/07 at 05:02 PM

Thanks Gotta,

I dont think it will be a problem but it is hard to tell untill i have the fibreglass cut and fitted.

Thread to be cont....... Its a bit long

Thanks.
gaz


JoelP - 30/3/07 at 05:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gaz 1977
Thread to be cont....... Its a bit long

Thanks.
gaz


Aye, its onto the front page! 2nd longest running thread. Congrats on the finished product, very nice.


Gaz 1977 - 30/3/07 at 06:09 PM

FINISHED!!!!!

I'm at about stage 3 of three hundred

But thanks

GAZ


novacaine - 12/5/07 at 08:34 AM

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=59404&pid=529797




Am i the only one that finds the "this way up" on the box below the table amusing?

[Edited on 12/5/07 by novacaine]

[Edited on 12/5/07 by novacaine]


gttman - 13/5/07 at 01:18 PM

Impressive concept and very good looking, I really hope you move this forward.

Imagine if you could make it universal to fit on almost all locost type chasis, you'd open up a HUGE market.

Doesn't have to cost a fortune to produce if you get get a production screen.
However do your homework on the cost of the screen, I assumed my screen would be cheap as its a production car... but gona cost £500.
Also remember that it is possible to cut the front screen down if you are careful.


locostv8 - 13/5/07 at 10:56 PM

I have been lurking but want to congratulate you on your design and bringing it to this state. If you are intending to take it to the next step, and I hope you do. A couple of thingy you might keep in mind. Remember the Devin? It was designed such that by manipulating the mold many different sizes could be produced, kinda one size fits all. I would atleast shoot at a book chassis and a 442 chassis with variants being sorted by the buyer massaging the fender wells. Generaly there are restrictions on the windshield, backscreen, head lights, and tail lights that are location specific. I would try to find production pieces from vehicles that are pretty much available world wide, this will increase your market considerably.

Again good work just a couple of thoughts.


Gaz 1977 - 14/5/07 at 07:50 AM

Thanks chaps, I am thinking of using the new book chassis with bmw doner at the mo, I hope that with a bit of thought and alot o0f measuring that it should fit severial chassis.

Several peple have tryed to convince me that the design should be priced similar to the GTM Libra but i rather like the idea of filling a gap in the market and making it considerably cheaper.

Thanks ,
GAZ

Dont forget that this thred is continued.

See ,locost ext design cont..., I will post some pics of the finished model on there tonight.