hi all as some of you may know we have been developing a reverse box, we did do the electirc reverse for a while which was a big positive in terms of power saved , and noise saved but unless you live somewhere with no hills / have a large battery they are just not powerfull enough to be fully practical, as a way to satisfy the scrutineers at racing they are adaquate, but for a real useable car its been niggling me for a while that there is a market for an inline varient that does not either sap power, rattle , clank, spit oil out, or cost a fortune, now that a reverse is a must it was time to take action!!!!!!!!
im pleased to announce we may have cracked it
today we ran our inline reverse box for the first time on the rolling road in a back to back test a very big thankyou to damien at daytuner performance for helping us and as usual being very accomadating and helpfull

test details

test 1

mnr vortx with 03 r1 engine with a popular unit used max power 127.03 at rear wheels 15.56 % power loss through drivetrain, 18 degrees backlash on unit

test 2

mnr vortx with 03 r1 engine with our unit used max power 132.28 at rear wheels 11.63 % power loss through drivetrain, 1 degree backlash on unit

both done on same day with 4th gear used for testing

to say im pleased is an understatement if i wasnt working tomorrow would be out celebrating

we will have the actual unit on display at stoneleigh with the power graphs for all to see

and the best part is that it is going to retail at £499

many thanks to iain b on here and his brother for the the use of their car, damien at daytuner and our technical partners who have made this possible

cheers

marc


edit to add sorry you got soaked on the way back iain when i felt it go a bit cold i turned up the heater a bit and when it pissed down i put my wipers on in the support vehicle



[Edited on 25/4/09 by marc n]

Great to hear it Marc, and I think the price is a fair old crack too.

Shame you didn't have a spare full prop to be able to give it a spin up with neither of them fitted!

Steve

did wonder that myself steve but 99.9 % sure that there is genuinely no difference, when you spin our unit by hand it free spins for ages, the bearings we have used are real pukka bits of kit and are rated at twice the rpm that they will see at top rpm in top gear at 150 mph if you can achieve it

also anyone with a centre bearing style prop will also be aware of the slight slop present when going on and off the power due to the rubber mount this is not evident at all on the new unit

weight wise its the same as a popular brand, and is 1.7 kg heavier than an electric version ( using a small bike starter motor and ring gear on the rear prop flange ) with a small bike battery or lighter than an electric version with a high power gel battery ( that means you can reverse without having to rev to 8k to stop the engine stalling due to current drain when reversing )

and its definately lighter than using a car starter motor

installation wise its smaller than most, so can be mounted further down the transmission tunnel meaning it is possible to have equal length front and rear propshafts, helping with universal joint angles and i dare say even less of a power sap with better angles on shafts, the car we used as the test bed has a much longer rear prop than front approx 850mm rear 430mm front so maybe we may see more power gains mid mounted ???

any questions fire away

cheers

marc

[Edited on 25/4/09 by marc n]

i was suprised to see that the popular unit used didnt sap as much power as has been mentioned before on here, for referance the standard the bike loses 7 % through the chain from memory but will confirm on monday

appologies for all the posts , but as you can tell im well chuffed

cheers

marc

So the "popular unit" wastes 5 BHP at peak power more than yours. It must get quite warm then.

£499 is still quite a lot but its a lot better than the one I looked at when building mine. Now that reverse is mandatory, you should sell quite a few. Well done.

[Edited on 25-4-2009 by smart51]

thats great news marc! any closer with my gear shift problem?

as far as im aware all the units available at present constantly drive a chain when going forwards meaning 4 driven bearings as opposed to our two and use drive dogs ( as per a gearbox when going forward ) hence the backlash

temps where noticably lower ( very noticeably lower ) just by touching the casing

we ran a small baffled breather pipe with a 2mm outlet ( modified grease nipple ) and could not feel any pressure build up at all

cheers

marc

yep have the paddles now mounted to column tube ( to please sva man ) and spaced correctly so you can use them ( as std the setup runs with a much smaller wheel than yours meaning you couldnt even touch the paddles when we first fitted it ) i have managed to not modify the original parts supplied and have made new parts so you could still have the paddles rotating with the wheel as they are designed

cheers

marc

Hi Marc sounds like a great box you've built there. For MNR owners without a reverse box(with centre bearing on welded in platform) how easy/hard is this going to be to fit and would it just need new prop shafts or any other modifications?
Cheers
Adam

obviously apart from the new propshafts it will require four holes drilling in the plate you mention, and in some cases a small adapter plate so no real problems at all, it is also a direct replacement dimension wise to other units available with no propshaft alterations needed if you have previously had a reverse fitted

cheers

marc

Sounds a great development - is this the official group buy thread?

weight wise we could save a bit as the casing is at the moment a square block and can be sculpted to save a little plus the lever mech is at present all steel and a bit bulky so i reckon we could lose .5 kg yet

cheers

marc

my car was fitted today with the reverse box.i drove it to the daytuners rolling road.this was after running my car this morning with on the rollers with my existing box.the differance in just the drive of the car is astonishing..... the car has no drive train noise in forward gear and the clunck u get from off throttle to back to power down does not exist...the car felt and drove so different ..i can only say this must be the way forward..........see u all at the show.........iain..

just to let u all know the first one has ......MY NAME ON IT ....so fight it out between yourselves for number 2

Hi Ian

Not bad figures there at daytuner i was down there a month ago with the dax gets kind of frightening when he takes it to 11000 revs you think the car wants to get through the door with it just ballancing on that single roller.

Regards Mick

Well done Chris & Marc !

will it bolt in place of my quaife ?

I would be very keen to see how much smoother these are .

look forward to more info.

Regards

Robert

quote:

---

Originally posted by bobs bangers
will it bolt in place of my quaife ?

---

I think that has been covered with reference to the "popular unit"

How many other popular units are there?

that is good news. the noise from my "popular unit" is a bit harsh making me check the fluid level every time i'm out.
well done guys

hi iain here .probably just before marc but here goes......yes the popular box is as above mentioned...i have one fitted in my car ...it took myself and mark only an hour to change the boxes around.it does mount EXACTLY.. to your old mounting points,and to your existing propshaft..........i must just add again my car sounded and drove so well it felt wierd....no clunk/bang or back lash from the prop.again if it did not have to come back out so it can be at the show mnr would not get it back(mine is on order)

One of the reasons i didnt get a bike engine has been solved- Well done sounds really positive

Next thing and only thing left marc is too make your own engine.

WACTH THIS SPACE!!!!!!!!!!

and learn to spell

So, my wquestion is, for those of us who literally want to keep IVA man happy and have no real interst in going backwards per se, are there any of the older units now going cheap?

Yeah, I guess so, basically I just want something to keep the IVA man quiet and also to go backwards about two feet to get my car onto the slope to roll out of the garage. Just looking for the cheapest option really. Probably a starter motor with a ring gear I guess but my fabrication skills are garbage so looking for off the shelf.

I'll be putting my name down for one as soon as possible, don't mind field testing one

so my Quaife one will be for sale.

im interested in one for my indy
i have a gravel drive which slopes uphill away from the garage.

quote:

---

Originally posted by marc n
as far as im aware all the units available at present constantly drive a chain when going forwards meaning 4 driven bearings as opposed to our two and use drive dogs ( as per a gearbox when going forward ) hence the backlash

cheers

marc

---

Jason Sorry about you experience.

The honest answer to your question is 2 VERY EXPENSIVE bearings ( the most expensive part of the unit infact )

As for being able to run 3deg ? We would need to run that past the designer to run some calcs what sort of BHP are you putting through it ?

Not condoning the remark but until MNR have tried to get the patent side of things tied down there are only 3 people that know how it works ( I arnt one by the way ) but do know a few bits and bobs.

edit to add I arnt the one who passed the coment I suspect I know who was and will have a chat to Marc and Chris to avoid a repeat of the experice you encountered.

regards

Iain

[Edited on 4/5/09 by Agriv8]

[Edited on 4/5/09 by Agriv8]

Iain

If they are applying for patents then fair enough, I would not want anyone knowing about it either but theres a right and wrong way to speak to someone and tell them that.

I am putting 200bhp and 100lbf torque (k8 Busa) through my Quaife. I am not sure what sort of side load would be put on the bearing with the cush trying to straighten a 3 deg prop.

thanks for your input

regards
Jason

Unfortunately, a few of us also walked away feeling the guy was a bit arrogant (to say the least!) and a bit put off

Exhibiting something new, punters are gonna ask questions before shelling out £500 on something tested on a bench. Especially when it has the potential of stopping us in our forward tracks if it goes belly up.

The nature of owners at a show is - "Oh shiny new things..." and then be inquisitive as to how it works,

(If it's on sale, there's nothing to stop the "competition" buying one and having a butchers anyway!)

That aside......

Congrats on the product - if its as good as is being said-felt!!

Seriously tempted

If someone could perhaps answer the following queries....

What warranty would come with this - as I've just mentioned - its early days and not exactly tried and tested on the road over any mileage-time period.

Also - would anyone have a ball part figure as to 2 piece propshafts?

It might be beneficial for MNR to have someone in the wings...that's if they don't already (I've not personally dealt with you before?)

Just a thought....Would there perhaps be a part exchange system for those of us with a 1 piece (length) shaft?

Good luck


James.

I heard the exact same thing off at least three other people and experienced quite a bit of the same myself outside whilst AB was repairing the wingstay.

I have to admit it wasn't directed at me, so I didn't pass comment, and I'm glad I didn't because it doesn't reflect Marc's personality at all. But very annoying to be honest...

Any more news on this yet? I have 500 quid burning a hole in my pocket if this reverse unit will be ok for my installation.

Jason


[Edited on 10/5/09 by Jason Fletcher]

sorry jason thought I had posted a reply the other day but it has disapeared.

Anyway the development unit (the one off the stand ) is back on the red car off the stand and flying arround yorkshire as I type.

After destruction testing I belive it is going back to check tolerances and for wear. After this we will be able to answer your questions

kind regards

Agriv8

cheers

Jason

[Edited on 13/5/09 by Jason Fletcher]