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So... what speed do you think the Lambo was doing?
David Jenkins - 1/4/14 at 09:48 AM

daveb666 - 1/4/14 at 10:04 AM

Watched that this morning. On a different YouTube video it is implied that it was racing the black Maserati that you can see in the background...

I don't think it was doing much more than 80 mph.

r1_pete - 1/4/14 at 10:22 AM

I don't think he would have been doing anything over 30, the low wide stance of the car and the satin black finish give the illusion of speed even when stood still..... Your Honour

ReMan - 1/4/14 at 11:43 AM

Actuall at first I thought 70, but in reality probably only 30-40 though decellerating , what a waste :-(

beaver34 - 1/4/14 at 12:09 PM

dont look too badly damaged really

SteveRST - 1/4/14 at 12:18 PM

30-40?
Doesn't seem to be braking during the impact. Car pulled out right infront of the lambo so from that angle I'd say not his fault. Would like to see another video angle though - if it turns out the lambo was doing 70mph out of shot then that would change my opinion.

CC Cyclone - 1/4/14 at 12:20 PM

It appears that he didn't actually get on the brakes until after the impact. That thing would stop on sixpence at that speed which does pose the question why didn't it?

Steve, you beat me to it!

[Edited on 1/4/14 by CC Cyclone]

blakep82 - 1/4/14 at 12:21 PM

40 absolute max. no excuse for that mazda pulling out without looking though...

you don't hear it screaming up the street, sounds like a fairly steady speed
real question is, why was someone just standing filming a street?

[Edited on 1/4/14 by blakep82]

matt_gsxr - 1/4/14 at 12:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82

real question is, why was someone just standing filming a street?

[Edited on 1/4/14 by blakep82]


Probably cyclist with camera on helmet. Pretty popular as it keeps things simple when you get knocked off.

blakep82 - 1/4/14 at 12:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82

real question is, why was someone just standing filming a street?

[Edited on 1/4/14 by blakep82]


Probably cyclist with camera on helmet. Pretty popular as it keeps things simple when you get knocked off.


makes sense, looks about the right height too

sdh2903 - 1/4/14 at 12:43 PM

That's going to be an interesting insurance renewal for the mazda owner. Front end plus both sides damaged

"So have you had any claims?"

Yes a low speed accident that was my fault

"Do you know the value of the claim?"

Er yes about £100k

"Click, ........dial tone"

[Edited on 1/4/14 by sdh2903]

coyoteboy - 1/4/14 at 12:45 PM

Does about the length of the parked car in about 1/3 of a second. That's about 5.5m in about 0.33 of a sec. Which is about 40mph.

ravingfool - 1/4/14 at 01:03 PM

Definitely the lambo's fault.

Doesn't matter whether the mazda was imprudent or otherwise pulling out as the Lambo ends up hitting him, not the other way round ergo the mazda is in front on the road and if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.

If he was only doing the speed limit then there was no need to crash at all, whatever the mazda was doing.

Idiot.

ken555 - 1/4/14 at 01:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
dont look too badly damaged really


scimjim - 1/4/14 at 01:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
Definitely the lambo's fault.

Doesn't matter whether the mazda was imprudent or otherwise pulling out as the Lambo ends up hitting him, not the other way round ergo the mazda is in front on the road and if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.

If he was only doing the speed limit then there was no need to crash at all, whatever the mazda was doing.

Idiot.


The classic defence of people who come across a give-way without looking.

ravingfool - 1/4/14 at 01:16 PM

If you look at the video the mazda doesn't appear to be going across at speed or wrecklessly.

We don't have all the information on the situation so it's a bit daft to cast blame on the mazda when at the end of the day what we can see is a lambo driving into an obstacle in the road.

If I had a lambo I'd be making damn sure I didn't drive into anything!

luke2152 - 1/4/14 at 01:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
Definitely the lambo's fault.

Doesn't matter whether the mazda was imprudent or otherwise pulling out as the Lambo ends up hitting him, not the other way round ergo the mazda is in front on the road and if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.

If he was only doing the speed limit then there was no need to crash at all, whatever the mazda was doing.

Idiot.


That doesn't make any sense at all. What if I run a red light and you can't stop or avoid me

jeffw - 1/4/14 at 01:17 PM

Look like a She driving the Lambo and it certainly seemed to be the Mazda's fault.

ianm67 - 1/4/14 at 01:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
Definitely the lambo's fault.

Doesn't matter whether the mazda was imprudent or otherwise pulling out as the Lambo ends up hitting him, not the other way round ergo the mazda is in front on the road and if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.

If he was only doing the speed limit then there was no need to crash at all, whatever the mazda was doing.

Idiot.


The Mazda driver was clearly driving without due care and attention. Do you think he'd have pulled out into traffic and caused a collision on purpose? The Lambo was on the main carriageway and as such has the right of way.......

Slimy38 - 1/4/14 at 01:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
Definitely the lambo's fault.

Doesn't matter whether the mazda was imprudent or otherwise pulling out as the Lambo ends up hitting him, not the other way round ergo the mazda is in front on the road and if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.

If he was only doing the speed limit then there was no need to crash at all, whatever the mazda was doing.

Idiot.


I'd disagree with that (first sentence at least). If he had hit the Mazda back end then yes I'd have said the Mazda had completed it's move in time and was now part of the traffic flow. But he hit the front, which means that the Mazda left the pull out too late. (in my humble opinion)

But the lambo could have stopped in a car length, either they were going too fast or they were incapable of reacting quick enough.

snapper - 1/4/14 at 01:19 PM

That looks like Chelsea and I've seen that Mat black car around there
Not a problem there's a Lambo showroom by South Kensington tube

twybrow - 1/4/14 at 01:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.


Not true. If the person in front makes an unreasonable move (excessive brake force, or pulls into your path) then it is not deemed your fault. You cannot be expected to drive and prepare yourself for any and every eventuality.

ravingfool - 1/4/14 at 01:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
Definitely the lambo's fault.

Doesn't matter whether the mazda was imprudent or otherwise pulling out as the Lambo ends up hitting him, not the other way round ergo the mazda is in front on the road and if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.

If he was only doing the speed limit then there was no need to crash at all, whatever the mazda was doing.

Idiot.


I'd disagree with that (first sentence at least). If he had hit the Mazda back end then yes I'd have said the Mazda had completed it's move in time and was now part of the traffic flow. But he hit the front, which means that the Mazda left the pull out too late. (in my humble opinion)

But the lambo could have stopped in a car length, either they were going too fast or they were incapable of reacting quick enough.



I don't know, they way I watched the video it looked more like the mazda was starting to pull out and then they slowed down because of the lambo arriving either quickly or unseen (baring in mind we don't know what obstructions to view there may have been or how fast the lambo was approaching because of the video angle).

In my opinion the sheer fact that the lambo drove into the near side of the mazda indicates that it was going too fast or not paying attention; regardless of whether the mazda was right to pull out at that time or not. I'm certainly not saying that the mazda was definitely in the right, only that the lambo is definitely in the wrong.

I'm sure 99% of the drivers here would probably think that in the same situation they would have been able to stop a lambo before it hit that mazda if they were only doing the speed limit!

ravingfool - 1/4/14 at 01:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by twybrow
quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.


Not true. If the person in front makes an unreasonable move (excessive brake force, or pulls into your path) then it is not deemed your fault. You cannot be expected to drive and prepare yourself for any and every eventuality.


Agreed, as a general statement it is true but of course if you are driving recklessly that's not the case. If you hit a stationary object in the road that's basically on you though.

You have to drive within the limits of the situation and if you come round a blind corner and crash into a stationary vehicle that's your fault, doesn't matter if you were doing 30 in a 40 if you should have been driving at a crawl because you couldn't see round the bend!

Seems like the time between the mazda pulling out and the lambo hitting it should have been plenty for the lambo to come to a stop.

blakep82 - 1/4/14 at 01:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
Definitely the lambo's fault.

Doesn't matter whether the mazda was imprudent or otherwise pulling out as the Lambo ends up hitting him, not the other way round ergo the mazda is in front on the road and if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.

If he was only doing the speed limit then there was no need to crash at all, whatever the mazda was doing.

Idiot.


lol

so if i sit at a junction, pulling out theres a car about 8m away, making sure he goes into the side of me, then i get a new car on his insurance, even with video evidence he drove out in front of me leaving zero reaction time?
doesn't seem right...
of course with only about 2m space by the time i'm in front, if he's going bang on the speed limit, theres no need to crash at all. in fact, i'll do it on a dual carriageway, do a proper job on the car?

doesn't really work, does it?
if zero reaction time and being able to stop in an instant was possible, i might agree, but its just not

luke2152 - 1/4/14 at 01:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Look like a She driving the Lambo and it certainly seemed to be the Mazda's fault.


LHD

ravingfool - 1/4/14 at 02:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
Definitely the lambo's fault.

Doesn't matter whether the mazda was imprudent or otherwise pulling out as the Lambo ends up hitting him, not the other way round ergo the mazda is in front on the road and if you drive into anything in front of you it's automatically your fault.

If he was only doing the speed limit then there was no need to crash at all, whatever the mazda was doing.

Idiot.


lol

so if i sit at a junction, pulling out theres a car about 8m away, making sure he goes into the side of me, then i get a new car on his insurance, even with video evidence he drove out in front of me leaving zero reaction time?
doesn't seem right...
of course with only about 2m space by the time i'm in front, if he's going bang on the speed limit, theres no need to crash at all. in fact, i'll do it on a dual carriageway, do a proper job on the car?

doesn't really work, does it?
if zero reaction time and being able to stop in an instant was possible, i might agree, but its just not



It was a general comment. For speed. Not meant to be taken to illogical extremes. But your statement doesn't work either; if you're driving along and you see someone creeping towards the road you would slow down because you'd be worried that they might pull out. If you didn't then don't be surprised if you have lots of accidents. This is not a dual carriageway obviously if you pull out in front of traffic doing 70mph you're going to be done for dangerous driving!

It doesn't look like that's what happens here. Mazda definitely reacts (turns wheels and nearly stationary), lambo doesn't react at all when presumably he should have been able to see this mazda creeping across the junction and he should have at least slowed to a speed from which he could stop if necessary (I bloody would have to avoid any chance of an accident). If the mazda reacted, the lambo should have had time too.

This is a busy part of central London and 30mph frankly is too fast for this area, lots of traffic, cars constantly joining from minor roads and rejoining from being parked. I've never had an accident round driving or cycling around there but I'm not surprised to read about plenty of accidents happening.

Read elsewhere that the lambo driver is being charged with dangerous driving but I don't have a reference for that so make of that what you will.

[Edited on 1/4/14 by ravingfool]

[Edited on 1/4/14 by ravingfool]

jeffw - 1/4/14 at 02:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by luke2152
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Look like a She driving the Lambo and it certainly seemed to be the Mazda's fault.


LHD


Just watched it full screen and you are correct of course.

Slimy38 - 1/4/14 at 03:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
lambo doesn't react at all...


Absolutely, that's the bit that's most surprising. I expected to hear tyres squealing as they stamp on the brakes, or the loud groan of ABS hammering the s**t out of the brakes.

To me that is a sure sign that they have no idea how to properly drive that car, especially in a built up area.

sdh2903 - 1/4/14 at 03:17 PM

purely speculating but as it's a LHD and being so low down is it possible the Mazda was in the blind spot of the A pillar? Would explain the lack of braking? I haven't been lucky enough to spend any time in an aventador to know for sure

ravingfool - 1/4/14 at 03:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Slimy38
quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
lambo doesn't react at all...


Absolutely, that's the bit that's most surprising. I expected to hear tyres squealing as they stamp on the brakes, or the loud groan of ABS hammering the s**t out of the brakes.

To me that is a sure sign that they have no idea how to properly drive that car, especially in a built up area.


I think you're right.

I also think I should have kept my head in my shell today, as I've been taking a hammering for my opinion both here and on Jalopnik for standing up for the mazda driver!

In my opinion: This is a busy part of London with traffic constantly merging and you don't get to continue just because you have right of way. Drivers pulling out in front of you is a given in London. Mazda pulled out and then adjusted it's steering and slowed to stop when the danger of a lambo was seen - whether it was seen late because the lambo was speeding or because vision was obstructed or the driver wasn't paying adequate attention is irrelevant. The mazda clearly changes course and the video seems to indicate that the lambo driver either wasn't watching where he was going or was going too fast to react. That's either dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention (nevermind the fact that I feel he's driven into the rear of the mazda - and I won't bother continuing to argue the merits of that one here!).

ravingfool - 1/4/14 at 03:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
purely speculating but as it's a LHD and being so low down is it possible the Mazda was in the blind spot of the A pillar? Would explain the lack of braking? I haven't been lucky enough to spend any time in an aventador to know for sure


Just spent the last few days driving a LHD renault of some sort through London as it happens (out-laws visiting). Although not an aventador, visibility isn't any worse to the right than to the left but the mazda in this case should have been visible through the windscreen of the aventador as he was approaching. If he couldn't see something like the mazda pulling out into the middle of the road then either his vision of the road was obstructed (and he should have been driving slower) or he was too busy doing something else and not paying enough attention?

Took him a long time to get out - was he picking his phone up off the floor after dropping it in the crash?

kj - 1/4/14 at 03:31 PM

Lambo driver at fault wide car LHD and a blond in the passeenger seat, bad combination

Slimy38 - 1/4/14 at 03:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
Drivers pulling out in front of you is a given in London.


LOL, definitely agree with that one!! That's why I always take the train!

kingster996 - 1/4/14 at 03:49 PM

quote:
Took him a long time to get out - was he picking his phone up off the floor after dropping it in the crash?
Either that or zipping his pants back up - the blonde did look a tad flustered

kj - 1/4/14 at 03:53 PM

First time i have seen a car on one wheel

sdh2903 - 1/4/14 at 04:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by kj
Lambo driver, wide car LHD and a blond in the passeenger seat, bad combination


Doesn't sound too bad to me

SteveRST - 1/4/14 at 04:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
That's either dangerous driving or driving without due care and attention (nevermind the fact that I feel he's driven into the rear of the mazda...).


You keep saying 'driven in to the back of...' but it's right there on video. This the moment of impact and no-one has driven in to the back of anyone. I would say that a Mazda has driven in to the wing/side of a lambo.
Parked car on left - so no avoidance posibilities there.



[Edited on 1/4/14 by SteveRST]

scimjim - 1/4/14 at 05:18 PM

Just watched it full screen - the Mazda doesn't change speed or turn (until impacted) IMO.

BangedupTiger - 1/4/14 at 05:36 PM

What an absolute waste, that Mazda looked mint.

JoelP - 1/4/14 at 07:21 PM

I think the lambo driver has seen the mazda creeping out and assumed that he was going to pull out behind him, then tried to drive round him as the gap narrowed, and realised too late that the MUPPET in the mazda was actually in a say dream and had failed to give way.

Ravingfool, without getting on your case, I'm quite alarmed that anyone with a driving licence could think that the mazda is not to blame. Are you in the habit of pulling out in front of people like that?

coyoteboy - 1/4/14 at 07:44 PM

quote:

If you look at the video the mazda doesn't appear to be going across at speed or wrecklessly.


It pulled out immediately into the path of another vehicle. That's pretty reckless.

james h - 1/4/14 at 07:53 PM

It seems clear to me that the mazda driver was not paying enough attention. Even if the lambo was speeding (not sure why that is assumed by most people, would we be thinking the same if it was a focus instead?), the mazda driver should be sharp enough to judge the speed of the traffic and merge in behind.

I also think the lambo driver was not paying enough attention. Given the speed the mazda driver pulled out of the junction, anybody who is scanning the road ahead would be able to give themselves plenty of time to slow down and avoid a collision.

Neither driver is faultless in this incident - if either one of them was paying proper attention this wouldn't have happened, as can be said about any avoidable collision I guess. Unless other evidence comes to light, from this video I'd hazard a small wager on the insurance outcome being 50/50.

JoelP - 1/4/14 at 07:59 PM

No chance of it being 50 50 unless something significant is laid at the lambo drivers door. This is a classic case failing to give due priority.

ian locostzx9rc2 - 1/4/14 at 08:44 PM

Mazda pulled out of a side road and the Lamborghini tried to get out of the way but hit the two parked cars it may have been speeding!

james h - 1/4/14 at 08:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
No chance of it being 50 50 unless something significant is laid at the lambo drivers door. This is a classic case failing to give due priority.


You may be right. Perhaps I was apportioning fault with insurance to closely. I guess insurance doesn't always work the way we like it.

perksy - 1/4/14 at 09:33 PM

The Mazda viewing position is higher than the Lambo and the Mazda driver didn't see it coming and pulled out imo
It was Black after all


That's why all drivers of 7 type cars need to be careful out there folks !!!
I'm sure we've ALL had it happen at one time or another....

ravingfool - 1/4/14 at 11:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
I think the lambo driver has seen the mazda creeping out and assumed that he was going to pull out behind him, then tried to drive round him as the gap narrowed, and realised too late that the MUPPET in the mazda was actually in a say dream and had failed to give way.

Ravingfool, without getting on your case, I'm quite alarmed that anyone with a driving licence could think that the mazda is not to blame. Are you in the habit of pulling out in front of people like that?


Ha, no. But neither am I in the habit of driving into cars that have (foolishly, recklessly or otherwise) blocked the road because I'm doing an appropriate speed for the conditions. What about you, without getting on your case?

I've never said the Mazda is without fault. What I'm saying is the Mazda must have obviously been in the way and only an idiot would drive into it.

If it takes an idiot then he must be at fault because it was avoidable.

I drive in London regularly and there are a lot more cars than most other parts of the country so you see a lot more idiots too. Both of these look like being likely examples.

hughpinder - 2/4/14 at 06:55 AM

Personally I'd go 50 50 on that one -

The mazda fails in his duty to ensure that it is safe before pulling out (it is his responsibility regardless of the speed of the user on the road he is pulling on to, how good visibility is etc). He doesn't seem to take avoiding action to me -it looks like he was lining up to pull in behind the lambo.

The Lambo seems to be doing 40 ish so probably too fast for the conditions, but I don't know the speed limit there -he may not have been technically speeding- Hes doesn't appear to brake before the accidednt, so I'd guess he saw the mazda, decided there was room to pass( obviously a bad judgement), but misjudged the width of his car (it was a LHD and he hit the other side of his car). Also note - It is less than 2 seconds from the car starting to pull out to the accident so not a lot of time.

Just out of interest - I saw a summary of 5 years worth of accident investigations in the uk (where serious injury or deaths occured) - 20% of cases had "didn't see the other vehicle" listed as one of the major causes, only 13% had "excessive speed" listed - and of those 2/3 were "excessive speed but below the speed limit".
I was recently talking to the accident investigation for the NE UK, and he was telling me how long it takes to make the decision to brake - in 'easy' cases its quick, e.g you instantly know you have to brake, but as soon as some decision making has to occur - is there enough room etc, it is often seconds before people brake. A good example of this is the multi vehicle pile ups - people think there is a gap to one side or the other so don't start to brake straight away....

Regards
Hugh

Irony - 2/4/14 at 08:09 AM

Lot of post for a simple subject.

I drive in London all the time and I am constantly amazed at the stupidity of drivers and pedestrians. They pull out if there is a hint of a gap. The Mazda driver wasn't going very fast at all and I think the Lambo driver should have been able to stop that great car on a penny at 30-40mph. I think the Mazda driver saw a small gap and pulled out as all London drivers do. The Lambo driver thought to himself 'cheeky bas%$£d' and tried for the even smaller gap. The Lambo wasn't breaking until after the initial impact.

Both twits if you ask me.

David Jenkins - 2/4/14 at 02:46 PM

And... I must apologise (slightly) for posting this on 1st April... It was a genuine accident, but I just knew that it would wind people up!



In reality - unless you could see what everyone was doing just before the accident, there is no way you could attribute blame.

jeffw - 2/4/14 at 02:56 PM

So the Mazda driver tells his insurance that he pulled out into the path of a Lambo, had an expensive collision and it it the Lambo drivers fault....Can't see that playing well.

JoelP - 2/4/14 at 04:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ravingfool
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
I think the lambo driver has seen the mazda creeping out and assumed that he was going to pull out behind him, then tried to drive round him as the gap narrowed, and realised too late that the MUPPET in the mazda was actually in a say dream and had failed to give way.

Ravingfool, without getting on your case, I'm quite alarmed that anyone with a driving licence could think that the mazda is not to blame. Are you in the habit of pulling out in front of people like that?


Ha, no. But neither am I in the habit of driving into cars that have (foolishly, recklessly or otherwise) blocked the road because I'm doing an appropriate speed for the conditions. What about you, without getting on your case?
.


People have pulled out on me many times, and I've not hit one yet. However if I ever do then that's just how it is, and I'll be claiming on their insurance.

ravingfool - 2/4/14 at 04:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
And... I must apologise (slightly) for posting this on 1st April... It was a genuine accident, but I just knew that it would wind people up!



In reality - unless you could see what everyone was doing just before the accident, there is no way you could attribute blame.


I think you're right David but I like to stick up for the mazda because everyone's laying into them!



Re JoelP

The real problem I have with the lambo is that it doesn't brake on the video until after he's hit everything. If he did his best to avoid a collision with the encroaching mazda and still hit it then fine. Probably the Mazda's fault (although I've seen a picture of the road which seems to indicate it's wide enough for both of them where they were despite the parked cars and maybe the lambo just cocked up on judging the width of his car as he was driving in his lane past the mazda - it is only a glancing blow really).

But because he didn't brake then I suspect either speeding or lack of attention.

I know you're saying that if you pull into a main road it's your duty to only do so when safe which is generally true, but if you're driving along that main road you've also got a duty to drive with all due care and attention too and that includes slowing down and stopping if necessary when something is either in your way or pulling into your way.

Simon - 2/4/14 at 06:43 PM

It's the Mazda's fault (much as I'd like'd to have blamed the Audi driver )

The Audi driver has right of way, and even if he'd been breaking the limit, he still had right of way, and would be deemed in the right/not at fault.

The Mazda driver is on a hatched area during the crash - not illegal as no joined lines, but they are to separate traffic and will be deemed at fault.

You shouldn't cause another driver to slow down or deviate. I'd say getting airborn is deviating

ATB

Simon

02GF74 - 5/4/14 at 08:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Irony
The Lambo wasn't breaking until after the initial impact.




well is certainly broke after the accident.

I sit in the "it is the mazda's fault" camp. if I had that lambo, I would certainly be a hell of a lot more wary of other traffic, i'd probalby never drive it in london or big cities , in fact, i'd be so worried about getting it damaged or vandalised i;d never drive but ...... but then if i had the cash to buy one in the first place, i'd proably have enough money to fix or buy another so it wouldn't matter.