Seems to me a shame that old cars are being destroyed for very little purpose (TV ratings on TopGear etc), even if they are for some considered dull or slow they still are historic cars that tell the history of the British car industry, when we had one.

If you go to classic car shows like I do, the thought that someone would come along and smash them up for fun is pretty much pure vandalism, something you'd expect from some gang of thick mindless chav's.

Last weekend at the Alford show, there was a pea green Allegro in mint condition. I had one and even though it had to be the worst car I’d ever owned, it was sure nice to see one that has survived and I hope its owner continues to look after it.

At this rate all that will be left is pictures, some car show that’s going to be

Sorry, bit of a rant there, but recently its been getting VERY annoying




[Edited on 22/7/09 by Mr Whippy]

Perhaps they were bound for the crusher via the scrappage scheme?

Oh, don't get me started on the scrappage scheme. Thats the government telling the general ignorant public that its ok just to smash up older cars! Cars of a certain age need saving. Its not right that they are deemed uneconomical or un-eco-friendly. And the 1975 cut-off for 'classic cars' (or is it 72? I can't remember) was a kick in the teeth, why hadn't the rolling years been kept going.

We need to save these cars*



*well except the Allegro

[Edited on 22/7/09 by balidey]

If they destroyed all the Marinas, Itals, Princesses and Allegros I wouldn't care....they where rubbish when new and they certainly haven't got any better. Just my opinion

I think you'll find it was an MOT failure anyway and marinas are cheap enough atm.

And don't forget the Maxi (much as you'd like to...). Undoubtably the worst car I have ever owned - and that's from a list that included a Skoda Estelle!

Is the Morris Marina a classic now?

Who decided that? Certainly didn't come up in the last 2 classics/modern classics threads I read on here.

Sure, keep a few about, to make sure people know why we don't make stuff here any more. no need for more than that.

I'm more concerned about the destruction of Pianos in Marina related incidents to be honest

but you wouldn't go to the national gallery and set fire to the 'more rubbish' paintings or smash the statues that aren't as nice as the Rodin's.

So why should we think its ok to smash up these old cars that aren't the most desirable.

Imagine in 25 years time top gear doing a road test on a 1996 Caterham but dropping a caravan on a 2003 luego. Would that be fair?

just because something is old doesnt mean its worth saving. If a car is slow, ugly and unreliable why should it be saved?

This comes from someone who spends his hard earned cash looking after his 20 year old car.

balidey - these cars aren't one off pieces of art, they're mass produced pieces of equipment designed to fulfil a function.

If in 30 years time people start complaining about people smashing up kia picantos then ill have lost all faith in the human race!

[Edited on 22/7/09 by cd.thomson]

It's the only thing that has always put me off TG, the way they think it's ok to smash anything up, drum kits, pianos, cars. Even if they are all 'scrap' to start with, I think it sends out the wrong message and makes me want to turn over....

quote:

---

Originally posted by balidey
but you wouldn't go to the national gallery and set fire to the 'more rubbish' paintings or smash the statues that aren't as nice as the Rodin's.

---

Some Caterham Sevens used the Marina/Ital rear axle

Whether one person considers a particular car to be a classic or not is not the point and it isn’t a list that is voted on.

These are historic items, like an old television, steam traction engine or gramophone that help bring history to life (to steal a common phrase). They should be persevered for the same reason we are preserving the concord or a humble 50’s twin drum washing machine, future generations are the ones who will lose out in the end as their history is meaninglessly junked because we are too blind to appreciate it.

So mass produced items dont count then? OK, just going out to smash up my model T

What I was getting at was, oh never mind. its a pointless argument, some people would save things, some wouldn't regardless of whether its important, mass produced, a one off etc etc.

I was at the classic car show at the weekend at Newby and i have never seen so many old cars in one place even a 1977 escort estate in good nick too and the pre war stuff wow will try and post some photo,s when i get some time!!

To perhaps let you see how I view it -

Imagine if you will, Clarkson & Hamster running around a car museum or any kind of museum for that matter with a baseball bat smashing up any items they consider not worthy in their opinion to be there, all the time with childish grins on their faces sniggering away filming it all to get some ratings on some cheap tv show. Then in years to come a group of school kids stand round all that remains, a photo where there used to be an exhibit. Do you think they will thank those vandals for what they did?

By destroying classic cars now they are preventing them ever having the chance to be preserved when their true historic value is finally appreciated.

im now imagining a museum full of sh*te cars

"Now Johnny, this heap was in production for two years and was famous for its poor handling and sticky gearbox. Ooo this one had severe rust issues and widely received below 2/10 in car reviews"

"Dad, this isnt quite the same as seeing historically important vehicles like big tanks and fast planes.. can we go yet?"

quote:

---

Originally posted by cd.thomson
im now imagining a museum full of sh*te cars

---

OK, so changing tack a little....

What about last weeks TG where Clarkson comprehensively trashed a drug dealers tricked out Evo?

You could argue here that the impounded car could have been pu to good use in a college for example teaching kids about automotive engineering etc.

IMHO though it was a superb bit of television and a very gratifying result to see it obliterated. I only hope said former keeper was in his cell with the TV (50" plasma no doubt) on and felt the full pain

As for the Marina..........well I certainly won't be losing any sleep over that one.

I don't think the dealer was loosing any sleep over it, I guess he just thinks when he's out he can deal again and buy another one.

But I had reallt mixed fealings about it. Yes its been sent to be crushed, so it got a bit of a reprieve before it was destroyed, but part of me is thinking 'those wheels could come in useful, and the engine, and the seats etc etc, so why can't we strip these cars that have to be scrapped, and just crush the shell. Then the parts can be used to keep others on the road.

Before I duck down into the trenches again I have to defend British Leyland. I worked for a BL garage in the 70's and although it's now said that the Marina's Allegros's and Maxi's were crap. When judged against the the other manufactuers they stood up pretty well. Anyone remember the Vauxhall Viva the Moskovitch the Chrysler Rancho the Hillman Hunter and lets be honest the Jap cars were nothing special then either. I drove a Marina van for 18mts covering 80/90 thousand miles and can honestly say it never missed a beat and I drove a hell out of it delivering part all over Cornwall and it was converted to run on LPG. A good mate had a Marina Estate in which he covered over 200 thousand miles. During my employment I got to drive most of the cars of the 60's / 70's and the BL stuff wern't that bad. We used to howl with laughter at some of the Jap cars with their cheap plastic and wafer thin metal. And remember there were some stand out motors back then like the Stag and my favourite the SD1 the 2.5Pi Dollie Sprint and the loveable Mini Cooper's

I know some will think me mad I have to agree, we should be keeping these cars, bikes ect for future generations.


Cheers

Rich

[Edited on 22/7/09 by Shadowcaster]

It’s not about preserving the best of the best or all you’d have in car museums are Roll Royce’s and Ferrari’s. A model T ford or Austin 7 are neither fast nor good handling but historically are as important as any super or luxury car. If you want a true representation of the past you also need to preserve the ordinary or in the future 100’s of years from now they’ll all think we went to work or to the shops in F40’s & Silvershadows

I have to agree with Whippy.

The beauty about being a car fan is that there are some you hate, some you love, and some you own / drive and dont give a 2nd thought about. Point being that just because you may not like a particular car it doesnt mean its not a classic (or will be a classic) and shouldnt be preserved when they start to get rare.

All cars have some place in history and perhaps do deserve to be in a museum, private collection or in regular use by a caring owner.

Some of the 20's and 30's classics that we occasionally see were probs once truly horrendous cars. However we now have a little smile when we see them out and about. Whats to say the humble Marina's, allegros etc wont also be the same in 40 or 50 years time. I for one can appreciate even the most humblest of cars that are a few years old when i see them still being used and looked after. Knowing the faults makes what the owners have done even more appreciative.

Someone said to me the other day, why the heck do locost have to use mk2 escort bits? Why not something no one wants!

I pointed out that in the 90s mk2 escorts were ten a penny in scrapyards and what we was proposing was suggesting to all mk3 astra owners that they shouldnt scrap their cars in case someone wants them in the future.

quote:

---

Originally posted by alistairolsen
Someone said to me the other day, why the heck do locost have to use mk2 escort bits? Why not something no one wants!

I pointed out that in the 90s mk2 escorts were ten a penny in scrapyards and what we was proposing was suggesting to all mk3 astra owners that they shouldnt scrap their cars in case someone wants them in the future.

---

Heres another throught. Why single out Top Gear?

What about The Sweeney, The Professionals etc. And then countless other progs and films. Top Gear is probs at the far end of the pareto compared to these lot.


I had a fantastic dream that i had an old Mk1 Escort in the garage. Was a 4 door but ready for a great restoration. Then i got woke up at 5am by the 4 year old wanting to play!

I can understand both sides of this but, in the grand sceme of things, TopGear isn't doing any real harm by destoying old cars, for cars to truely last as originals they have to be kept in museum condition for most of the time anyway.

On the scrappage system, having bought or helped to buy about 4 cars in the last year (2 for me and 2 for my folks) I'm sure that there'll be cars scrapped that are in better knick than the £5k modeos and Vectras you'll find on dealler forecourts across the land. I'm told old folks are one of the biggest groups to use the sceme and anyone who's bought an old bods car will know what I'm on about. The real losers though aren't the real car fans but young people who will now have to pay more for there first shed because they're in higher demand.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Shadowcaster
Before I duck down into the trenches again I have to defend British Leyland. I worked for a BL garage in the 70's and although it's now said that the Marina's Allegros's and Maxi's were crap. When judged against the the other manufactuers they stood up pretty well. Anyone remember the Vauxhall Viva the Moskovitch the Chrysler Rancho the Hillman Hunter and lets be honest the Jap cars were nothing special then either. I drove a Marina van for 18mts covering 80/90 thousand miles and can honestly say it never missed a beat and I drove a hell out of it delivering part all over Cornwall and it was converted to run on LPG. A good mate had a Marina Estate in which he covered over 200 thousand miles. During my employment I got to drive most of the cars of the 60's / 70's and the BL stuff wern't that bad. We used to howl with laughter at some of the Jap cars with their cheap plastic and wafer thin metal. And remember there were some stand out motors back then like the Stag and my favourite the SD1 the 2.5Pi Dollie Sprint and the loveable Mini Cooper's

I know some will think me mad I have to agree, we should be keeping these cars, bikes ect for future generations.


Cheers

Rich

[Edited on 22/7/09 by Shadowcaster]

---

i was annoyed but amused in that clarkson wrecked a perfectly good 940 turbo , plus he didnt do it justice when tuning it up either , should have bloody asked me .

is it a classic ? not just yet .

but they did the same with the 944 and that red jap thing , and a trend is developing - lets make entertaining TV by smashing stuff up .

Who here has not broken up Escorts mk1 and 2 ,seirras and countless motorbikes.....

Sorry If I upset whipster but the death of these cars serves to make the preserved ones more valuable.

So taking a merc on a banger rallys is bad....
or a pair of jags.

How many had a laugh at the fiat panda posted up under darren why doesnt it sell.

just because its a marina....would it be differant if it was the panda.


Its life and things happen..linky

IMO that show is about showing the worst of the old British class system: "I'm so rich I can go around wrecking anything I want and laughing about it". At the same time, Clarkson pretends he is above actually working on cars. They may not have snooty origins, but they want you to think they do. The accents you have no longer give you away, (at least to my foreign ears) as they once did, since it is considered cool to sound like an uneducated bum.

Destroying history is never a good thing. It's like cutting down trees: you won't live long enough to see it again. Those cars are cool. They are simple and reflect a simpler time. Sure the technology advanced, but why are we building what we are? Anybody could work on those old things. Try working on a new Audi sometime! I don't even know how to get access to the engine.

[Edited on 22/7/09 by RK]

I, as some of the above, have mixed feelings on this.
Partly it is the Government to blame once again. In the past I had Mk1 and 2 Escorts from Mexicos to RS's. If I bent it I went to Rushtons Scrapyard and got myself a "new" wing/door whatever. These places don't really exist any more due to the constraints placed (possibly rightly so) on people now dealing with End of Life Vehicles.
If you don't tax your car, it gets crushed??? How environmentally friendly is that? Why can't they be impounded and then auctioned off to raise a bit of money that could be well used somewhere?
Also, not every car built in the 70's is a Classic. I remember my dad going to look at a Datsun (120Y I think). Even then I was thinking that I had never seen so much cheap plastic, badly fitting panels and rust. OK, there were some cars that would be worth saving but these are the ones that are special in some way. Most of these are represented by specialist groups. You don't see many Vivas around these days but there are still some good examples of Firenzas/Magnums about owned by enthusiasts.
The Austin 7 and Model T have been mentioned previously. Obviously these are significant as they represent certain milestones in the development of the motor car. The Marina on the other hand...

Blimey dont worry guys - there's enough marinas around for at least a few of them to end up in museums so that our complete history (even the crap bits) can be preserved forever.

I think some of you guys better make sure you stay well away from these things called 'action movies' too! Literally millions spent on destroying perfectly good vehicles, aircraft, buildings, etc etc, of all types and ages purely for entertainment! Enough to give some of you heart attacks . Should have seen what John Cleese did to that poor Morris 1100 in Clockwise. Why didn't they think of that car's potential future classic status? Animals... rah rah rah...

Just taken the dog out and walked on the other side of the road to normal. Spotted an Austin Maxi "5 Speed" tucked behind someone's garden hedge!!

Saw a Sierra a few weeks ago and the word "cool" floated through my head. Ten years ago I wouldn't have given it a second thought because there were so many around. Imho the main reason why these "classics" should be preserved is purely down to being not many left of them.

It won't be long before we're saying the same thing about the 306 or the Seat Leon, but not while there's 30,000 of them on the roads