Too fast for me
Sadly another rider ,Derek Brien was killed today in the I.O.M Supersport race, the incident was at Gorse Lea, out of interest I had a look to see
where that section was ,I came up with this offical video of that section, it is truly terrifying to watch and you need little imagination to foresee
the consequences of an error.
Gorse Lea
Best wishes and condolences to his family and friends
[Edited on 6/6/11 by Surrey Dave]
Too fast for me
much as I love bike racing, I think it's time to call it a day for the IOM TT.
I just can't justify people dying every year in the name of 'sport' - the price is too high in my opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
much as I love bike racing, I think it's time to call it a day for the IOM TT.
I just can't justify people dying every year in the name of 'sport' - the price is too high in my opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by jacko
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
much as I love bike racing, I think it's time to call it a day for the IOM TT.
I just can't justify people dying every year in the name of 'sport' - the price is too high in my opinion.
I agree with you Mark but they know the Dangers when they go there to race
Very sad day for all concerned
I've got really missed feelings about it now. I love watching it, the most exciting motor racing of all. But three people dead in one week,
I'm not sure if I want to watch it any more. It's fine saying the riders are taking their own risks.
But it's the families they leave behind that gives me such a bad feeling. Their kids aren't making the choice and now they'll grow up
without a dad. You can't tell me that's worth racing for is it?
I think it's time to call it a day and stick to track racing.
Sorry but i think your wrong, If you call time the TT just because a small number of competitors die, where does it all end.
I'm sure each and every entrant is fully aware of the risks involved before they sign up.
Leave it up to the individual to decide if they want to take part.
A lot of things are dangerous, thats part of the reason we like to do them.
Al.
Originally posted by mookaloid
much as I love bike racing, I think it's time to call it a day for the IOM TT.
I just can't justify people dying every year in the name of 'sport' - the price is too high in my opinion.
Joey Dunlop 26 times TT winner died on a race track.....
]Originally posted by Jasper
I've got really missed feelings about it now. I love watching it, the most exciting motor racing of all. But three people dead in one week,
I'm not sure if I want to watch it any more. It's fine saying the riders are taking their own risks.
But it's the families they leave behind that gives me such a bad feeling. Their kids aren't making the choice and now they'll grow up
without a dad. You can't tell me that's worth racing for is it?
I think it's time to call it a day and stick to track racing.
Thin end of the wedge that is.... How long before no one is allowed out of doors, just in case they get wet.
Without events like the TT society is lost.... maybe society should make everyone take up knitting
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
Sometimes as a society we have to protect people from themselves.....
quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
Thin end of the wedge that is.... How long before no one is allowed out of doors, just in case they get wet.
Without events like the TT society is lost.... maybe society should make everyone take up knitting
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
Sometimes as a society we have to protect people from themselves.....
I don't think breaking the law can be cited as an example, i fully agree society needs laws to maintain some order, however when it comes to
recreation and sport, an individual should be allowed to assess the risks involved and decide if they want to compete or not.
If the TT is stopped, just because members of society who have no connection to the sport decide it's too dangerous, where does it end, plenty of
people die climbing mountains, yet plenty more take up mountaineering, should that be banned too..... and the list goes on..... Boxing... Horse
racing.....etc etc.
Fair enough if the riders start complaining, then maybe it should be looked at.... but to my knowledge no competitors have said they would like the TT
to end.
As for the sig....you should have seen her when she used to bounce 
..I think that was stopped by society...
Al.
]Originally posted by mookaloid
well we could always go the other way and dispense with speed limits..... stop banning recreational drugs...... making it perfectly legal to play
chicken on railway tracks in front of high speed trains..... etc. etc. these are all things that you could apply the same argument to - they are all
things that you could say that it is up to the individual and they understand the risks.
I'm not a politician and I don't make - or want to make the rules for that matter - I just think that the IOM TT is just the wrong side of a
fine line for me.
I whole heartedly agree with your signature though
quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
Joey Dunlop 26 times TT winner died on a race track.....
quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
As for the sig....you should have seen her when she used to bounce
Al.
]Originally posted by mookaloid
I whole heartedly agree with your signature though
Would have to stop people joining the army and fighting for our country too, as you can die doing that job.
Banning the TT is (in my humble opinion) a ridiculous thing and to say that his family will suffer because of it is a relatively silly notion. You
don't know if the guy was a nightmare to be around if he wasn't on a bike for example...
These people do it for a reason - Yes they are very brave to be flat-out when on the 600's but they are not being petty/frivolous with their
lives. They are not going there to die - they are going there to do something that they have to do.
The mountain climbing analogy/comparison is a good one. People will not be stopped "adventuring" because of associated dangers. Is it
because as a past time it was done by less common people? And therefore, the lowlier person that is the motorbike rider "need looking
after"?
A few years ago, Nine people died in one week at the TT. This is a very bad thing, but it should not be stopped for these occasions alone.
If I had half a chance, I'd be racing there this week...
i agree with wadders on this one .Ive been involved in various motorsports for the last 25 years and in that time have had several friends/fellow competitors who have lost thier lives to the sport they love. you cant just ban something because its dangerous, for many people who participate in these events its what they live for. .m.
Oh yeah let's ban it and deny these men the right to do what they love.
They know the risks and it doesn't matter whether you can justify it or not, they can. That's what matters. If you don't like it dont
watch it.
Sorry but fed up of hearing critics pipe up, it'd be a tragedy of it was cancelled.
I think anyone who doesn't 'get it' needs to go to understand the TT races.
[Edited on 6/6/11 by Yazza54]
Maybe off to a slight tangent, but does anyone remember this?
Clicky linky
Did any of us read this and then jump to conclude that cars should no longer be built by individuals, but should be built solely by major corporates
with every piece of safety equipment available? Perhaps we should question our reason why.
Was this because we are able to think for ourselves; to weigh the costs of getting things wrong against the joys of getting them right? Good drive on
a good day = joy of life.
How many LCBs choose to do that which we enjoy despite the risks and their cost? Is removing everything in the world that's dangerous an
essential ingredient in making balanced, free-thinking individuals? I know my thoughts... 
I understand the viewpoint that we should stop another family's heartache, but can't bring myself to impose my fears on the things that they
enjoy. In the words of Paul Dobbs' widow: "he died doing what he most loved, in a place he felt at home and surrounded by people he
admired." As a now-single mother with 2 children, I think it's she who is best-qualified to decide.
[Edited on 6/6/11 by mediabloke]
I agree wholeheartedly with Steve and Wadders comments. The TT no longer counts as a championship round of any form therefore the only reason to race
it is because it is the ultimate challenge in this chosen form of motorsport. I raced it in 1999 on an F2 sidecar and would still be doing it now if
it wasnt for the injuries I sustained on my return racing on a normal circuit.
I think it is one of things where you have to be actively involved in it to truly understand it. My brother, for instance, climbs mountains all over
the world and is currently planning another Everest trip, whilst I have never understood the draw of being cold, suffering altitude sickness and
risking life and limb halfway up a mountain, I do recognise the passion he has for the sport as it was the same for me with sidecars.
Interestingly enough during my career whilst there were deaths at the TT, I lost more friends on short circuits.
[Edited on 6/6/11 by Andy B]
quote:
Originally posted by Andy B
I agree wholeheartedly with Steve and Wadders comments.
my friend is there as a passenger on an F1 sidecar, think its the F1 anyway, but he couldn't wait to get out there and be part of it, he works hard long hours so he can be part of it, as do alot of the people racing, from what i can tell, most the people racing pay for it out of their own pocket, i now my mate does, so that must show that they want to be there and know the risks not some big company making them go because its in their contract!!
Another vote here that you should never ban an event like the IOM TT dew to some unfortunate deaths. If these deaths would stop riders from entering
it would die out on its own. But it doesn't.
If, and I say if you want to take action against these accidents. Then maybe you should investigate the circumstances and see if you can lower the
risks. If for instance 1 bend in particular causes many serious accidents, then maybe you could alter it. Maybe the bend itself, or maybe the place
where the rider tends to end up. It's seldomly the impact with the ground that causes the major injuries, it's usualy what they hit after
that...
So yes my vote is on keep on racing. And if needed make it a bit safer here and there, but be careful that the IOM stays true.
Barry Sheene never raced there despite being put under a bit of pressure to do so. He thought that the TT racers were all a little mad. Maybe there is
an element of truth in that but these people go to the IOM to race not to die. Sure there is a risk but if you consider that there is some rudimentary
safety plus the fact that no one should pull out of a side road in front of you in their car or come round a blind bend over the white lines then.
I've lost two mates to biking. Both were non-fault accidents involving other vehicles. In neither case was speed considered to be a contributory
factor. Neither of these would have ridden in the TT (or even done Mad Sunday) as they thought it was too dangerous.
We're not throwing these people to the lions. They are not obliged to do this and it would be interesting (if a little morbid) to know how many
other bikers are killed or injured in the whole of the UK during the same week. Perhaps bikes should be done away with all together eh?
whatever you think, its unlikely to last long.
quote:
Originally posted by Wadders
Thin end of the wedge that is.... How long before no one is allowed out of doors, just in case they get wet.
Without events like the TT society is lost.... maybe society should make everyone take up knitting
I think a lot of you are missing the point. As a society we have a duty of care to try to keep people from killing/hurting themselves, because a lot
of people are just not bright enough to do it themselves.
To be honest, I really don't care about the riders themselves, if they want to take those kind of risks then fine. The real problem I have is
that nobody seems willing to talk about those that are left behind to pick up the pieces - the family and friends.
When I got together with my wife 10 years ago I was riding a Ducati Paso 900 and had been riding bikes for 10 years. During that time I only really
had myself to worry about. Once I realised this was the person I was going to spend the rest of my life with I felt a responsibility to her and her
daughter to do what I could to look after myself as best I could. I soon realised that everytime I was late home from work on my bike by even 5
minutes my wife would be imagining me lying dead in a ditch.
Now I love my wife enough to realise that just isn't fair on her, so I sold the bike and built a kit car instead. Whatever you may think or say
we all know kit car are statistically MUCH safer than riding a bike. I crashed mine and walked away with a bit of whiplash.
Now a man like Guy Martin who seems to have no dependants can race all he likes as he has no family responsibilities. But any of those other guys with
wives and children well thats a different matter, I just see it as total selfishness. When I married my wife I made a commitment to her and I feel a
duty of care to her and her daughter to reasonably reduce my chances of leaving them alone in the world. Now I did say 'reasonably' here.
So yes, go out, ride like crazy fools, but just remember who will be picking up the very real and emotion pieces of you when you're in bits down
a road - it won't be you that's for sure.
For all those of you with a family who go out and ride hard and fast on country roads ask yourself would you smoke fags around your kids, or not put
their seat belt on in the car, or let them play with the toaster? You'd do anything to look after them and keep them safe, but the one thing they
need more than anything else, to grow up with a dad in the house, you would risk for a bit of Sunday afternoon testosterone fueled adrenaline rush.
I think too many 'family' men don't really realise or admit the dangers until it's too late.
+1 to jasper
Every one I've seen has their family behind them 100%. Who are we to speculate whether these people should have the right to do it or not when we
have no involvement.
I don't see anyone actually involve in the TT calling for it to be cancelled, whether it be riders or riders families.
The only people I've heard moaning is people who have no connection, so just dont watch it and let the riders, their families and spectators
enjoy it.
I'd rather die doing something i love than with a careworker wiping my arse for me and I dare say the riders families want them to do what they
love an accept the possible consequences.
[Edited on 7/6/11 by Yazza54]
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
I think a lot of you are missing the point. As a society we have a duty of care to try to keep people from killing/hurting themselves.
And what about the young children and babies of the riders - do they have a choice and an input into it, I think not.
That's what having a family means, having children who rely on you being their for them.
quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
And what about the young children and babies of the riders - do they have a choice and an input into it, I think not.
That's what having a family means, having children who rely on you being their for them.
Jasper - I see a certain irony in your signature!
There is no one forcing these people to do this and, as stated above, friends and family are usuallu 100% behind them. There are probably a lot more
examples of commuter and pleasure motorcyclists where this is definitely not the case.
I agree with your comment about the kit car being safer than the bike but can you honestly say that you have never felt slightly exposed or vulnerable
in your kit car compared to your everyday tin top. You are still at risk when driving your kit and if you are just out for a blat (or even just
pootling around) then you are needlessly putting yourself at risk in pursuit of your own pleasure. Do anyone's kids here have a say in that?
The one big issue I have is people is people doing this type of thing on the public highway and ending up taking out someone who had absolutely no
choice in the matter. That is irresponsible.
Doh! too late with the sig comment!!
[Edited on 7/6/11 by Richard Quinn]
Nice sentiment, but plenty of children lose parents to cancer, divorce, road accidents etc, and they have no influence in any of those cases.....I
applaud your family commitment, but it shouldn't stop you doing what you love.
I bet it won't stop them once they are out of your control....
Al.
Originally posted by Jasper
And what about the young children and babies of the riders - do they have a choice and an input into it, I think not.
That's what having a family means, having children who rely on you being their for them.
I started this post with very mixed emotions , when I was younger 20 - 30 I used to race karts on long circuits which is quite fast and dangerous
,upto 60 on the grid I didn't really think I was going to get killed ,you sort of feel invincible when you are young,in the end I had quite a
large accident and could easily have been killed or paralysed, I never returned.
When I see the way that motorcycle racers injure themselves and then come back as soon as possible I'm impressed with their determination.
But when you get to my age now (57) time starts to go really quickly people pass away that you know and generally it's about trying to extend
your as much as possible.
So although I love watching bike racing and think they are like modern day gladiators part of me thinks what a waste of a life in pursuit of something
as futile as winning a race and being the fastest, but as I say I'm willing to concede it is an age thing!
As for the families and partners it must be a tremendous shock when they wave them off at line and then get a message just a few minutes later, that
their loved one has gone forever, yes they all know the risks but no one really thinks it will happen to them.
The sidecar team that where killed last week ,the driver was 67!, and the passenger 57............... I wouldn't want to be a passenger on one of
those things but if I was forced it would not be with a driver of 67..........on the IOM with no room for error you must be joking.