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Turbo an old Landy
Mr Whippy - 12/3/18 at 01:18 PM

Hi,

Rather than risk posting this on a Landrover site which usually gets the same old boring put a hellishly noisy TDi engine bla bla yawn.... in it as if I even like diesels one bit or I want even more noise in an already noisy enough truck thank you very much or want clouds black smoke pouring out of it too (get the picture...not interested in a diesel btw )

I'm sticking with the nice pleasant very quiet petrol engine however its a bit low powered for various reasons and could do with an extra 20bhp which would get it at reasonable levels for hills and head winds

The petrol engine was the basis of the diesel engine and mines a 5 bearing one so I have no issues on it's strength and I don't want it to rev any faster than normal either as the rods are stock. All the performance improvements you can get are basically trying to get more flow through the engine and big bonus can be gained (45bhp or so) but at big costs.

As I have a lot of room in the bay and the down pipe is a 1/2m straight pipe I was thinking why not just fit a small turbo? I think the compression is 7:1, it has a carb which I think (I'll have to check) could be pressurised without float chamber issues. There's even room behind the grill for an intercooler too.

Was thinking of just putting it together from scrap car parts (one locally) and a downpipe is like a tenner. Engine is a 2.25ltr but as it doesn't turn very fast probably is equivalent to a 1.8ltr modern engine for flow, if that certainly the carb is small. Any suggestions for a suitable donor? would be wanting quite a low boost, like I say 20bhp would be fab. What do you think would be a sensible boost amount?

Any idea's would be appreciated

[Edited on 12/3/18 by Mr Whippy]


coyoteboy - 12/3/18 at 01:26 PM

Pop a T4 from a PSA engine onto it and push actuator pressure in there in there? Should spool nice and fast and not be pushed particularly hard.


MikeR - 12/3/18 at 01:29 PM

Have you considered getting a mini supercharger?
You'd then have the power boost all the time.


Mr Whippy - 12/3/18 at 01:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Pop a T4 from a PSA engine onto it and push actuator pressure in there in there? Should spool nice and fast and not be pushed particularly hard.


cheers, I'll look into that


Mr Whippy - 12/3/18 at 01:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Have you considered getting a mini supercharger?
You'd then have the power boost all the time.


hmm sounds more expensive than a turbo and more difficult to drive (the power steering pump was a pain enough to fit) it's all low torque v-belts on that thing


nick205 - 12/3/18 at 01:59 PM

Don't really know Landys much at all so I'm curious, I'm assuming it's an inline 4 cylinder engine you have in there?

If so (again curious) what sort of cost and complexity is involved in fitting a V8 engine?

A chap who worked where my wife does has a V8 Landy and I have to say it does sound superb just burbling along. He doesn't do many miles in it, but does tow contract gardening kit around so likes the towing ooomph it gives him.


ss1turbo - 12/3/18 at 02:31 PM

I'd look not necessarily at the engine size, rather the expected bhp. IIRC a 2.25 petrol will be harbouring a tiny downdraught Solex? If so, the ideal solution would probably be the 32DIS off a Renault 5 turbo (115bhp from memory?), which is ready to go for forced induction. You'll need something to wind back the ignition when on boost; not much for a clockwork distributor although a vac advance unit from an early Saab turbo IIRC might fit with some fiddling. You used to be able to get a simplistic box-of-tricks (Turbo Dynamics?) that retarted the ignition by x degrees per 1000rpm which should save pre-ignition.

Turbo size...probably without getting technical, then something, again, similar bhp rated if petrol, which normally means a T2 or one of the smaller spec T3s. You might get away with a PSA TD one which are probably cheaper and easier to find although the characteristics are somewhat different (and petrol turbos run a higher temp than diesels).


dinosaurjuice - 12/3/18 at 03:06 PM

turbo sounds like a great project but my gut feeling says a rover V8 would be easier and give a better end result. just my 2p...


nick205 - 12/3/18 at 03:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
turbo sounds like a great project but my gut feeling says a rover V8 would be easier and give a better end result. just my 2p...



I guess that was my thinking as well.

Not being familiar with them though I've no idea if that would entail chassis + fuel system mods etc. to get it to work. I have a feeling Whippy's after minimal mods and keeping it relatively cheap and quick to do.


blue2cv - 12/3/18 at 04:07 PM

Suck thro carb using an SU, no worrying about pressurising carb body


ss1turbo - 12/3/18 at 04:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blue2cv
Suck thro carb using an SU, no worrying about pressurising carb body

As long as the turbo can do this (not all can from memory - needs to have the right seals?) - plus you can't run an intercooler.


blue2cv - 12/3/18 at 04:24 PM

Surely intercooler fitted between turbo and engine, so fuel input method unimportant


coyoteboy - 12/3/18 at 04:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blue2cv
Surely intercooler fitted between turbo and engine, so fuel input method unimportant


If you're sucking through the carb you would be fueling into the IC. You'd get fuel condensation and pooling in the IC.


mark chandler - 12/3/18 at 10:23 PM

RV8 will give you the power and economy over that agricultural 2 1/4 four pot, I used to race a standard series 2a, skimmed head, had Kent cams regrind the base circle to 285 degrees and it was still rubbish, just a bit faster.

Turbo would be interesting, just keep it simple with a front ended SU


ss1turbo - 13/3/18 at 11:49 AM

As you can get an SU adaptor for the 2.25, fit that, with the SU from a Metro Turbo (as it's got no electronics like the Montego one)? Will need re-needling but the Montego one will probably be close..


DavidW - 13/3/18 at 12:06 PM

I had the 2.5L petrol in my Defender and replaced it with a 3.9 v8 on megasquirt when I rebuilt it.

MPG isn't that different, although the work and parts needed were not insignificant. The v8 makes it go rather well and the noise it makes it much nicer.

The Subaru TD04 (?) turbos seem popular on the internet for sticking in places where they wouldn't normally be although would be more work than the other suggestions here.

If you're only going for a little extra power, the rest of the drivetrain will be fine providing its all maintained.


02GF74 - 13/3/18 at 06:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dinosaurjuice
turbo sounds like a great project but my gut feeling says a rover V8 would be easier and give a better end result. just my 2p...


I have rover v8 in my lightweight, never got over 15 mpg on a motorway run at 60-70mph.

You will need adapter plate to mate to the gearbox and RR diffs. And then upgrade front brakes.

In the lwt, the bulkhead needs hacking as the v8 with low profile manifolds is a very tight squeeze, a panel in the tunnel is needed to access the last spark plug. These mods may not be applicable to the civilian models.

A cheaper option may be to increase cr, port the head, fit decent flowing inlet and exhaust manifolds and better carb(s).

Don't forget the engine is throwback to the 50s and is intended to run on low grade petrol so is not tuned for performance.


nick205 - 14/3/18 at 11:20 AM

I understand you're not a diesel fan for this application, but is there not a VW/Audi TDI that would fit. Admittedly I'm not able to drive on the road for the time being, but I've driven VAG TDI's for many years (SWMBO has and still does too).

Granted modern tin tops are more sound proofed than your Landy will be, but for everyday driving VAG TDI's do it for me. Enough power, plenty of torque, reliable and economical.

I'm sure such a conversion would entail fuel system changes, maybe even the fuel tank itself. Once done the power and torque on offer would surely make it worthwhile though (?)

[Edited on 14/3/18 by nick205]


Mr Whippy - 14/3/18 at 01:01 PM

na been there with the diesels, utterly hate them, not even a consideration. If I'd wanted a TDI or v8 Landy I'd have just bought one originally rather than convert this one.

V8's out, too many things to change (gearbox, brakes, bulkhead, exhaust, props etc etc) and even with LPG is still a guzzler

Some very helpful stuff on suitable turbo's and I was looking at an 1 3/4 SU conversion as that flows much better and is quite a simple and cheap mod, plus it works well with running boost, there's an article on how to convert standard ones to turbo which doesn't take much. Going to pick up a second hand SU and refurbish it. I've already ported the head and matched the inlet (was miles out, terrible mismatch), slightly more power from that but not enough.

It will be a very basic installation as I said only looking for a 20hp gain and even swapping to the SU and the 2.5 cam will give almost half that

Thanks for all the info




[Edited on 14/3/18 by Mr Whippy]


nick205 - 14/3/18 at 03:01 PM

Point taken on the diesel and V8 - I'm not too different in my own opinion of better to buy the original OEM one if that's what you're really looking for.

Presumably your camo Volvo is your daily driver and the Landy's more of a weekend/toy vehicle?


MikeRJ - 14/3/18 at 03:31 PM

Fitting an SU and increasing the CR to ~9:1 will probably get you close to the power you want, coupled with better economy. Some optimisation of the ignition advance curve will be needed, but that would be the case for turbocharging it anyway.

Could always go for a Megajolt or similar and do away with the clockwork ignition altogether.

[Edited on 14/3/18 by MikeRJ]


Mr Whippy - 14/3/18 at 09:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Fitting an SU and increasing the CR to ~9:1 will probably get you close to the power you want, coupled with better economy. Some optimisation of the ignition advance curve will be needed, but that would be the case for turbocharging it anyway.

Could always go for a Megajolt or similar and do away with the clockwork ignition altogether.

[Edited on 14/3/18 by MikeRJ]


Its got electronic ignition which is very good but doesn't allow any curve adjustment adjustment. Not sure about increasing the compression above 8:1 they seem to suffer from detonation and there's no anti knock sensors.


Mr Whippy - 14/3/18 at 09:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Point taken on the diesel and V8 - I'm not too different in my own opinion of better to buy the original OEM one if that's what you're really looking for.

Presumably your camo Volvo is your daily driver and the Landy's more of a weekend/toy vehicle?


Na the landy (Percy) is used everday and volvo is just used when I need more seats...its 95% a city truck tbh not recommended unless you are nuts



[Edited on 14/3/18 by Mr Whippy]


DW100 - 14/3/18 at 10:17 PM

What about a nice Volvo 5 cylinder conversion?


ReMan - 14/3/18 at 10:48 PM

I like your idea of a nice simple add on
The engine sounds fine for it so get on and do it


Mr Whippy - 15/3/18 at 07:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DW100
What about a nice Volvo 5 cylinder conversion?


Same apply's to any engine swap, adaptors, new exhaust, gearbox strength issues, brake upgades, diff ratios needing changed etc etc it all adds up

Besides it's a classic truck with all the original running gear and pulling out the engine only devalues it, currently its appreciating steadily. The Volvo engine is too long anyway, I have a 5 cylinder in mine and it a very long engine which would mean swapping to a 90 front end which again reduces it's value even more than an engine swap.

A cheap bolt on turbo and carb swap is by far the best option.

[Edited on 15/3/18 by Mr Whippy]


02GF74 - 15/3/18 at 07:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy

A cheap bolt on turbo and carb swap is by far the best option.




I'd go with the latter, carb., inlet manifold as increased in cr.

ask on LR forums for options or send a mail to
https://www.turnerengineering.co.uk. they know their stuff as far as LR engines go.


Ivan - 16/3/18 at 10:47 AM

OT - a near neighbour has a SWB Landy with a BMW 2.8 straight six and an exhaust coming out of the side of the rear fender at the level of the top of the rear wheel but half way between the wheel and the back of the car. I must say it sounds brilliant - by far the best sounding Landy I have ever heard without being loud - and it seems to go like S off a shovel. Just saying!


Benzine - 16/3/18 at 12:21 PM

I won't mention the 'D' word!

But have you considered an engine that runs on heavy oil with compression ignition?


Mr Whippy - 16/3/18 at 12:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Benzine
I won't mention the 'D' word!

But have you considered an engine that runs on heavy oil with compression ignition?


heavy oil? What like a ship engine...that's just not going to fit mate how am I going to see where I'm going???