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Small Efficient (non bike) Engine Ideas?
Surrey Dave - 24/6/08 at 11:04 AM

Having spent yesterday afternoon in traffic ,leaping over speed bumps and generally enjoying my self I was thinking that a small efficient lightweight engine , more in keeping with the original 'Locost' might be an idea.

My thoughts where the obvious ones:

BMC 'A' series
1400 'K' series
1.25 16v Zetec

But there must be some better ones , preferably ally ,and able to mate to my type 9 box, and fit complete with original injection system.

I am even thinking Citroen 1.4 HDI 16v

Honda's are nice but spin the wrong way .

Would be interested in any other ideas

tegwin - 24/6/08 at 11:08 AM

I did some work on my old ladies Ford Ka 1.6 16v over the weekend...

Struck me as being a wonderful donor!....

Pretty light and powerfull....


What I want to see is someone using a small gas turbine to power electric motors in the wheels....If only I had the cash!

bartonp - 24/6/08 at 11:09 AM

Daihatsu 3 pot (998cc)? Very light, twin cam 12v, VVT.
No idea about RWD box, it may have found itself in a jeep-a-like?

AndyGT - 24/6/08 at 11:14 AM

Vauxhall have a wide range of engines and I am under the impression that they all fit to the XE type bell-housing...

Range from 2.0 16v Turbo to 1.2 16v

I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong...

02GF74 - 24/6/08 at 11:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
... I was thinking that a small efficient lightweight engine , more in keeping with the original 'Locost' might be an idea.

My thoughts where the obvious ones:

BMC 'A' series



it may be samll but not efficient nor being cast iron light.

what about the hillman imp - wasn;t that all allloy? Covernty climax for same reason, a nice period engine.

tegwin - 24/6/08 at 11:49 AM

The later engines in the Sport KA was alloy....isnt it?

And no, not stupidly powerfull, but would look good wth a turbo

DaveFJ - 24/6/08 at 11:58 AM

small fiat engine? not sure how difficult they are to connect to a type 9 though

the 1.2 SMPI FIRE engine from a punto sporting would be a nice little unit IMHO..

ceebmoj - 24/6/08 at 11:59 AM

hi,

how about a Suzuki capercheno drive train rear wheel drive 657 cc turbo engine 64 PS (63.1 bhp) @ 6,500rpm, double unequal length wish boans all-round. Reves like a bike engine and you could can up the boost for more power also the cars rust like anything so there should be plenty of doners about.

ok so i'm a bit biast after the gf bought one but they are still great fun to drive and a miny fury or 7 alike car based on one would be a hoot.

[link]http://www.suzuki-cappuccino.com/a_information/a_cappuccino/tech_spec.php[/link]


blake

[Edited on 24/6/08 by ceebmoj]

loggyboy - 24/6/08 at 01:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by AndyGT
Vauxhall have a wide range of engines and I am under the impression that they all fit to the XE type bell-housing...

Range from 2.0 16v Turbo to 1.2 16v

I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong...


2.0 (XEs or other wise) are big block, meaning older (90s) 1.8s and above will bolt straight to it. Older 1.6s and newer 1.8s (and under) are small block so would require a different bellhousing.

[Edited on 24/6/08 by loggyboy]

myke pocock - 24/6/08 at 02:08 PM

Depends exactly what your after spec wise. Multi valves, fuel injection, light weight, CC, cost etc?
The Skoda Favorit is conventional layout, all alloy, 1300cc, some come with injection but dont know what they will mate with though. Cheep as chips in the breakers and can be tuned. Think of the alternative street cred!!!!

smart51 - 24/6/08 at 02:09 PM

I wouldn't have thought an A series engine was either efficient or light. 60 BHP from 1275cc?

The toyota 1.0 3 cylinder engine (used by peugeot, citroen and daihatsu) makes 68 BHP and they claim it's the lightest car engine in production.

coozer - 24/6/08 at 03:10 PM

1.7 SE out of a Puma/Fiesta?? Nice light all alloy by Yamaha.

MikeRJ - 24/6/08 at 03:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by smart51
I wouldn't have thought an A series engine was either efficient or light. 60 BHP from 1275cc?


It's fairly light for a cast iron engine, I can pick one up by myself without a hernia anyway.

You are confusing specific power output with efficiency.

An engine can be in a low state of tune and therefore have a fairly low power output, but can still be fuel efficient. As it happens the A series is pretty good in this respect for it's age, due to the Weslake designed head.

However, it's an old engine that was launched 57 years ago, so it would be pretty tragic if their weren't better engines around by now.

The K series, the Zetec SE and the Vauxhall 1.6 Ecotec are all nice light, modern engines that can produce quite adequate amounts of power for a 7. All can be mounted to a Type 9 via commercialy available bellhousings.

Memphis Twin - 24/6/08 at 04:16 PM

I've a great idea!

What about a nice, tuned 1700 X-Flow?

Memphis Twin - 24/6/08 at 04:19 PM

Or a nice tuned 1600 CVH?
Better than that 'orrible 1800 - much stronger bottom end.

Mark Allanson - 24/6/08 at 04:23 PM

I am on the lookout for a 1.4 Fiat Bravo unit (the new one, the old one is crap) it spins out a howling 150bhp and you can lift it off the bench without a crane!

Paul (Notts) - 24/6/08 at 05:56 PM

Anothe vote for the ford puma 1.7.

Allready have one and planning my next build around it.

Paul

britishtrident - 24/6/08 at 06:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
... I was thinking that a small efficient lightweight engine , more in keeping with the original 'Locost' might be an idea.

My thoughts where the obvious ones:

BMC 'A' series



it may be samll but not efficient nor being cast iron light.

what about the hillman imp - wasn;t that all allloy? Covernty climax for same reason, a nice period engine.


At one time I considered the Chrysler Sunbeam 928cc rwd version of this engine, in the end memories of changing too many Imp cylinder head gaskets swept it fropm my mind.

To make an Imp engine reliable you have to use Wills rings which can only be used if you convert to 998cc wet liners which is expensive.

The Metro single cam Rover K8 engine is an alternative in 1100 or 1400cc --- nice and simple distributer ignition and SU carb.

ceebmoj - 24/6/08 at 07:54 PM

hi again the capercinos owners club reckon around

engine - 60kg
gearbox - 25kg

witch I reckon is prity good for a car engine and box with reverse

focijohn - 24/6/08 at 07:58 PM

1.25 fez engine??

Beardy_John - 24/6/08 at 08:04 PM

Does the Puma 1.7 fit to a Type 9??

iank - 24/6/08 at 09:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Beardy_John
Does the Puma 1.7 fit to a Type 9??


Not without a bell housing.

Bit left field, but the Nissan micra 1.3 would fit the bill nicely if it could be persuaded to bolt to a type 9. All aluminium, 16v and no power as standard, but ditch the inlet/outlet manifolds and put something better than a drinking straw bore exhaust on and they can be made to go as well as a Suzuki swift.

Surrey Dave - 25/6/08 at 08:46 AM

Thanks for some interesting info keep it coming .

[Edited on 25/6/08 by Surrey Dave]

sevaun - 25/6/08 at 09:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Thanks for some interesting info kee it coming .


Might Isuggest I a Punto Sporting 1.4 which has a great 16v multipoint injection engine. Very light and puts out a respectible 95BHP as standard. I own one and can testify that it's a great torquey little unit. I actually tow my Hillclimb locost with mine and it gets me everywhere!!
Not sure how it would mate to a rwd gearbox, but where there's a will....

Sevaun

Surrey Dave - 25/6/08 at 03:24 PM

This FIAT engine sounds interesting although I generally give FIAT's a very wide berth!!

Peteff - 25/6/08 at 03:37 PM

Suzuki carry 1300 van, already has a rear wheel drive gearbox and revs like a mad thing.

Deckman001 - 25/6/08 at 03:44 PM

I'm another suggester of the Nissan 1.3 from a micra, I had to 'fill up' the in-law's car for her and was pleasantly surprised with the car's 'go' , good and revy as well !!

Jason

johnston - 25/6/08 at 07:53 PM

what about the 1.4 106 pug or the 1.4 puma

nick205 - 26/6/08 at 03:07 PM

Didn't some of the 750mc race series specify the Fiat FIRE engine as the replacement for the Coventry Climax unit?

I remember talking to a 750mc guy at Autosport earlier in the year who painted a very good picture for the little Fiat unit. Very compact and one man manouverable with good tuning potential too.

iank - 26/6/08 at 03:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nick205
Didn't some of the 750mc race series specify the Fiat FIRE engine as the replacement for the Coventry Climax unit?

I remember talking to a 750mc guy at Autosport earlier in the year who painted a very good picture for the little Fiat unit. Very compact and one man manouverable with good tuning potential too.


It replaced the reliant (robin) engine not the climax, but otherwise correct. The reliant replaced the Austin 7 engine.

Good article on tuning the 1108cc FIRE engine here:
http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21
and
http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?=&p=2238

DaveFJ - 26/6/08 at 03:49 PM

regardless of attitudes to Fiat cars - I think most would agree they tend to make cracking good engines...

MikeRJ - 26/6/08 at 05:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by iank
Good article on tuning the 1108cc FIRE engine here:
http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21
and
http://www.guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?=&p=2238


Interesting that he thinks a flat power 'curve' is a good thing! That simply means your torque is decreasing at the same rate as your RPM is increasing, nothing really special about that whatsoever IMO.

iank - 26/6/08 at 06:09 PM

Well a wide powerband means you don't fall out of the band when you change gear. So it makes it easier to drive and maybe even faster with a required by the regs 4 speed reliant gearbox.

NS Dev - 26/6/08 at 07:40 PM

I'd go with Coozer and go for one of the zetec se's.

They are yamaha designed, all alloy (actually not true, a lot of the casings are actually magnesium alloy) and great to tune, plus extremely efficient.

1.25, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.7 litres capacity, with the 1.7 having variable valve timing, there's something to suit, and a bellhousing for the type 9 is available, if not too cheap at £170 ish.

great engines

MikeRJ - 27/6/08 at 11:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by iank
Well a wide powerband means you don't fall out of the band when you change gear. So it makes it easier to drive and maybe even faster with a required by the regs 4 speed reliant gearbox.


Right, but that is dictated by the torque curve, since that what's actualy pushing you along and is why a flat torque curve is desirable. An engine with a perfectly flat power curve would be virtually useless.

britishtrident - 27/6/08 at 12:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
regardless of attitudes to Fiat cars - I think most would agree they tend to make cracking good engines...


If you disregard head gaskets and ECUs that suffer from memory loss forget all the security key codes.

britishtrident - 27/6/08 at 12:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
I'd go with Coozer and go for one of the zetec se's.

They are yamaha designed, all alloy (actually not true, a lot of the casings are actually magnesium alloy) and great to tune, plus extremely efficient.

1.25, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.7 litres capacity, with the 1.7 having variable valve timing, there's something to suit, and a bellhousing for the type 9 is available, if not too cheap at £170 ish.

great engines


The 1.4 has no mid-range torque at all --- and compared to the Rover 1.4 it is down 23 bhp !

britishtrident - 27/6/08 at 12:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Deckman001
I'm another suggester of the Nissan 1.3 from a micra, I had to 'fill up' the in-law's car for her and was pleasantly surprised with the car's 'go' , good and revy as well !!

Jason


Under estimated little engine, a lot of very cheap Micras around at auction because the trade know there is a problem with the single point injection ones that needs a new throttlebody to fix.

iank - 27/6/08 at 12:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by Deckman001
I'm another suggester of the Nissan 1.3 from a micra, I had to 'fill up' the in-law's car for her and was pleasantly surprised with the car's 'go' , good and revy as well !!

Jason


Under estimated little engine, a lot of very cheap Micras around at auction because the trade know there is a problem with the single point injection ones that needs a new throttlebody to fix.


There is indeed, but it's often fixable for little effort.
http://www.micra.com.au/technical-articles/cg13de-throttle-body-resoldering-guide.php

Volvorsport - 27/6/08 at 03:10 PM

hmm cant suggest anything volvo that would fit to type 9 , apart from a gutless 1.6(in an s40) which i think is a megane engine ?

Surrey Dave - 27/6/08 at 03:53 PM

Looks like I should have had my parents Rover 214 when they scrapped it ,100k miles no engine issues except something to do with the front pulley.

Is it straightforward to use the standard ecu and injection when removed from donor?

britishtrident - 27/6/08 at 06:22 PM

On the K the Front pulley and cam drive sprocket is driven by a rather inadequate "D" flat on the crank rather than a key, it can give rise to issues if the pulley has been removed to fit an new cam belt and not fully torqued fully home.

If the pulley and sprocket is flopping around a bit the usual cure is a new pulley and sprocket and a dab of araladite where they locate on the crank and of course some locite on the retaining bolt and washer.

This is one of the reasons for never trusting the timing marks on a Rover K when doing anything that involves removing the timing belt.
On these engine the engine has to be set at half stroke before removing the belt.
I always double check by measuring down the plug holes to check the pistons are at half stroke when the timing marks line up ie: the pistons are at an exactly equal distance down the bore measure via the plug holes.

[Edited on 27/6/08 by britishtrident]

britishtrident - 27/6/08 at 06:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Looks like I should have had my parents Rover 214 when they scrapped it ,100k miles no engine issues except something to do with the front pulley.

Is it straightforward to use the standard ecu and injection when removed from donor?


You need the cars security ECU and a fair bit of the wiring loom.

paulf - 27/6/08 at 08:09 PM

Why not use your megajolt and bike carbs?
Paul.

quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Looks like I should have had my parents Rover 214 when they scrapped it ,100k miles no engine issues except something to do with the front pulley.

Is it straightforward to use the standard ecu and injection when removed from donor?

NS Dev - 27/6/08 at 10:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
I'd go with Coozer and go for one of the zetec se's.

They are yamaha designed, all alloy (actually not true, a lot of the casings are actually magnesium alloy) and great to tune, plus extremely efficient.

1.25, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.7 litres capacity, with the 1.7 having variable valve timing, there's something to suit, and a bellhousing for the type 9 is available, if not too cheap at £170 ish.

great engines


The 1.4 has no mid-range torque at all --- and compared to the Rover 1.4 it is down 23 bhp !


Yes but I think you know that isn't the whole picture!!

a) use the 1600!!

b) unstrangling the intake instantly puts it ahead of the k with similar mods, sorry!

ettore bugatti - 28/6/08 at 01:31 PM

How about:
Nissan CG13DE from a Micra, or the Suzuki 1.3 16V (with Samurai tranny?), or Daihatsu (/Toyota) engines?

Surrey Dave - 29/6/08 at 01:07 PM

Something Jap or Fiat sounds interesting , the Suzuki could already have an rwd gearbox and would probably be a fair bit lighter than a type 9.

Is a Samurai 4x4 is the main box separate?

info info info

[Edited on 29/6/08 by Surrey Dave]

rodriguez - 29/6/08 at 04:50 PM

im putting the suzuki 1.3 16v with a set of 40's on mine. should be good and revs really well. dunno wot gearbox to use tho

westf27 - 11/7/08 at 10:34 PM

briggs and stratton.Blow the grass out the side and bill the council

akumabito - 13/7/08 at 08:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DaveFJ
the 1.2 SMPI FIRE engine from a punto sporting would be a nice little unit IMHO..


The FIRE engines are cast iron though.


They're still very light, and come with surprisingly strong internals if you want to boost it.

A mate of mine build his own engine - 999cc turbo. It pushes 135Hp on the dyno (105 or 115 at the wheels, I don't quite remember)

He's having plenty of fun with that engine in his old Panda!

Let's see if I can dig up the thread on the Panda Club Forum..

Here it is: http://forum.fiatpandaclub.nl/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4775

133Hp max power and 162Nm from 3200 to 6000 rpm. 108Hp at the wheels.

akumabito - 13/7/08 at 09:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Surrey Dave
Is a Samurai 4x4 is the main box separate?


Yes it is. The transfer case is connected to the transmission by a tiny driveshaft.

The 1.3 is way down on power though. 60-something-ish I believe. A lot of Samurai fans are swapping over to 1.6 engines from the Vitara (almost a bolt-in replacement) or go with the GTI engines.. (From the Swift I think.. not sure though)