tks
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 01:04 PM |
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Trouble for outside UK clients is riseing(2nd)
Good afternoon Tks,
Your enquiry has been passed to me due to its technical nature. This
has caused a delay in you receiving a reply, for which I apologise.
Your question is more involved than you might think, but I shall try
to answer all the points raised to enable you to make an informed
decision on the merits of registering the vehicle.
VOSA are an Executive Agency of the Department for Transport, which is
the
Government Department responsible for all forms of Transport in Great
Britain. All SVA tests must be carried out by the "Competent Authority"
which in European terms means the authority delegated to fulfil the
function by central government. VOSA are the "Competent Authority" for SVA
testing in Great Britain and therefore only VOSA staff can be permitted to carry out SVA testing.
The Department for Transport set up the Great Britain Single Vehicle
Approval scheme when European Type Approval regulations became
mandatory for cars and light commercial vehicles in the European Union. The
objective was to provide an alternative scheme to Type Approval for vehicles
produced in low numbers or where Type Approval was not a viable option.
As such, the scheme was devised to ensure that vehicles entering service in
Great Britain met the required safety standards. The Department for
Transport has recently confirmed to VOSA that, whilst they are aware
that once registered in GB, vehicles can then be exported to elsewhere
in the world, they are keen to ensure that the scheme is only used for
vehicles actually entering service in Great Britain. Accordingly they have asked us to take steps to ensure that this is enforced. Unfortunately,
this does mean that VOSA can only accept applications from residents of Great Britain.
I do hope this information is helpful, but should you have any further
questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch.
Best regards,
My Answer:
Hi Mark,
I untherstand the theory and that you just fulfil what you are told to.
But its still a fact that many manufactures are still allowed to present at the SVA test with a vehicle for someone outside the UK.
As you say VOSA can only accept applications from UK residents.
For me its another type of discussion if this is correct or not (wy not see it as a service and charge/raise more money???)
Regards,
Answer from VOSA!!:
Hi Tks,
I am afraid that you have been misinformed. It is not the case that Kit Built vehicles can be presented by manufacturers for someone outside the UK.
We have received advice from the Department for Transport lawyers that the current regulations do not allow us to issue a certificate to a vehicle
that is to be registered outside of Great Britain. If you have evidence of this happening, I will be more than happy to take the matter up directly
with the manufacturer.
With regard to the chassis number, I am afraid that you would have to take the matter up with the vehicle manufacturer. I am sure that a reputable
manufacturer would not knowingly issue a chassis number to a vehicle that was to be registered outside Great Britain, having been informed of advice
from our lawyers on the 1st November 2006.
I do hope this information is helpful, but should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch.
Best regards,
My answer:
Hi xxxx,
I'm certainly not mis informed because to SVA my car its one of the 2 options left for me. The strange thing I notice is that you cant know if
the vehicle will be marked for export until it has a license plate. Sow in fact you discriminate somewhere in the process. Also the fact that LHD is
the filter lets you stay with problems, because many exported cars are RHD wich are driven overhere to very well, sow just a matter to the market to
adapt its requirements. Its also obvious that you cant have this rule, people aren’t strangers any more in the UK. In fact in the EU there is a rule
(freedom of movement) this allows me to start a UK company only to do my SVA.
You ask me if I have evidence but in fact all the evidence is there in your own system. Just query the system for exports, name changes etc. look
where the exports go to, look if there is directly an owner change as wel etc.
My original manufacture:
Registered Office:
LUEGO SPORTS CARS LIMITED
2 AXON COMMERCE ROAD
LYNCHWOOD
PETERBOROUGH
CAMBRIDGESHIRE PE2 6LR
Company No. 04498526
Isn’t there anymore sow for me that’s not an option.
Its sad for me to see that the UK gov doesn’t want this kind of business. Only thing needed was some kind of extra export fee (for non UK ers) in
return for that allowance to present the car at your SVA. Its hard for me to believe that after spending sow much money in the UK economy (we talk
about 12.000euro) I still cant SVA my car over there, in my opinion there should become some exception for example if you brought a kit in the UK,
also notice that I bought the kit in nov – 2004 not knowing this would happen.
It’s a pity that you are only interested in your information and not willing to supply the one I asked you.
Also you state November 2006 is this correct? (not 1 nov 2007???)
Best Regards,
Hi xxx,
Thank you for your continued correspondence regarding this matter.
Please allow me to explain why this ruling is important and why it is enforced. Single Vehicle Approval is a National scheme that was always designed
to allow UK residents to build cars for their own enjoyment. It was never designed to be a commercial arrangement. Because it is a National scheme, it
is only open to UK residents and should not be used to circumnavigate other countries regulations.
VOSA is a non-profit making Government Agency and as such we are not driven by commercial arrangements. Because of this, we do not run schemes to
simply make money, but merely to uphold and enforce regulation. VOSA does not register vehicles nor change registration details, that is the role of
the DVLA.
I can confirm that the letter informing manufacturers of the requirement to only SVA cars for UK residents was effective from the 1st November 2006
(two thousand and six).
I do hope that this helps you understand the position regarding your vehicle, but should you have any further questions, please do get in touch.
Best regards,
[Edited on 16/11/07 by tks]
[Edited on 16/11/07 by tks]
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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MikeR
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 01:14 PM |
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ooooh bugger! thats going to put the cat amoung the pigeons & make registered cars far more valuable .....
although how to do you prove that a car caterham (randomly picked manufacturer - i could have choosen any other) has built and sold to someone from
france - wasn't built, put in the showroom and then randomly purchased by someone who happened to be from france?
Seems a bit unworkable to me.
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irvined
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 01:24 PM |
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Sounds like a standard response to ensure they don't get taken to court if you can't register your car afterwards.
Either way - how can they know if somebody is registering a car for somebody abroad? or if a car is going to be sold to somebody who will export it?
As long as it is registered in the uk after SVA, shouldn't be any problem no?
Somebody must offer this service for people abroad? If not - assuming there is no real legal issues - its a potentially lucrative market for somebody.
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robertst
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 01:34 PM |
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as james may would say: "oh Cock"
i knew that this would be a problem, i mean if everyone were able to simply show up for the test, pretty much all of Europe would flood in to the UK
with their amateurly built cars clogging up the system.
it really is logical that the SVA is restricted only to residents of Great Britain
thats why we have to resort to entrusting our car to a GB resident/manufacturer who will take the test in their name, then somehow selling it back to
us (the price would be the revenue for his services), which we then take back to our country and register.
Tom
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Gergely
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 01:40 PM |
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Yes, OK, but would this not mean that they can simply refuse any LHD car even if the manufacturer brings it to SVA? That surely is intended for use
abroad...
Please tell me it's not the case. I have not even started building my dream I have been dreaming for more than 10 years...
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tks
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 01:47 PM |
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its not allowed to take your car to a manufacture to sva it for you!
Read it!
problem is the fact thats called BEFORE HAND knowledge... sow he can do it but not mentioned for export.
Hungary???
go to roemenia much easyer to get your car on plates (they told me)
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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robertst
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 01:55 PM |
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I know its not allowed, but sadly thats what has to be done IF you're not a GB resident and you want to SVA it.
Tom
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whitestu
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 02:06 PM |
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Can't you just get someone in the UK [like another forum user] to SVA it and register it in the UK prior to exporting?
Stu
[Edited on 16/11/07 by whitestu]
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tks
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 02:15 PM |
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Yeah thats a very good option.
Do you know of someone?
Everyone who can help me with it (do me an offer) U2U me about it.
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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chockymonster
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 02:59 PM |
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tks,
you're still missing the point.
If you ask company xyz to put a car through sva for you this is what will happen.
They will apply for SVA on your behalf so
Mr TKS @ Company XYZs address applies.
The car passes SVA
Mr TKS registers the car @ company XYZs address and the job is done.
Once you've left the country and gone abroad you then register the car in that country.
It's that simple.
Forget the VOSA response as what they have said is that Mr TKS living outside of the UK can't apply for an sva. but the whole idea is that you
are living in the UK when you apply.
PLEASE NOTE - Responses on Forum Threads may contain Sarcasm and may not be suitable for the hard of Thinking.
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 03:00 PM |
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I am not a lawyer, but, I would think that as great Britain is now within the EU then under the auspices of the Human Rights Charter and allowing for
freedom of passage AND living rights endowed within the E.U., then someone with a bit of sense and a GOOD lawyer, could probably drive an artic
(sideways) through the legal presumptive stance taken by that series of letters and replys.
These days, all you have to do is give the government a clip round the back of the head with the Human Rights laws and you can do almost anything.
IMHO.
enjoy.
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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tks
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 03:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chockymonster
tks,
you're still missing the point.
If you ask company xyz to put a car through sva for you this is what will happen.
They will apply for SVA on your behalf so
Mr TKS @ Company XYZs address applies.
The car passes SVA
Mr TKS registers the car @ company XYZs address and the job is done.
Once you've left the country and gone abroad you then register the car in that country.
It's that simple.
Forget the VOSA response as what they have said is that Mr TKS living outside of the UK can't apply for an sva. but the whole idea is that you
are living in the UK when you apply.
living? i need to be UK resident.
that means living more then 180 days a year. Dunno the exact rules about that one but i guess its not a question of on and then off.
When i give my car to some manufacture they present it if it was their car. so they do all the fillingin of the docs.
If in the mean time they go boom my car is theirs. sow its not easy.
Tks
p.d. read the second part of it.
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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whitestu
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 04:24 PM |
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What was your plan for getting the car SVA's before you got the response from VOSA?
Cheers
Stu
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tks
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 04:41 PM |
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Well its a long story but the last part is that
i have paid to a NL company to do the SVA for me. But they take the time. I wait on a date since june 2007!
the told me something went wrong with my chasisnumber.
but i always look around if i can to better /cheaper options
problem is they take their time and i don't want that. in feb 2008 rules change for import in NL.
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 06:01 PM |
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Looks to me like it is a standard reply just to cover their backsides. They simply shift the legal obligation to the manufacturer or individual.
VOSA say that the current regulations do not allow them to issue a certificate to a vehicle that is to be registered outside of Great Britain but then
they aren't paid to investigate (or even particularly interested in) the registration intentions of the manufacturer or individual post SVA.
Trying to prove intent would be extremely difficult and for what it's worth I doubt they would even bother, given the small number of vehicles
that are eventually registered abroad and the legal consequences they may face if they tried to enforce the regulations.
Good luck in your quest to get it SVA'd.
Phil
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locogeoff
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 06:11 PM |
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What is the issue with getting an SVA in Spain?
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 06:14 PM |
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The EC Directive for vehicle type-approval allows vehicles certified in any country to be sold across the EC. Because full EC type-approval is
expensive and onorous every nation is also allowed to develop its own schemes for low-volume and single-vehicle approvals. In the UK we have both but
many other countries do not have an individual vehicle approval scheme. These approvals are ONLY VALID in the country they were issued.
My understanding is that other countries should not generally allow registration based on a foreign single vehicle approval. The UK certainly would
not. DVLA require a full type-approval Certificate of Conformity, UK MAC, or a low-volume approval ( 'sub-MAC' ).
Edit in reply to above: Spain, along with most other EC countries, do not offer a single vehicle approval scheme as their governments did not see the
necesary demand.
[Edited on 16/11/07 by matt_claydon]
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chockymonster
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 08:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tks
living? i need to be UK resident.
that means living more then 180 days a year. Dunno the exact rules about that one but i guess its not a question of on and then off.
When i give my car to some manufacture they present it if it was their car. so they do all the fillingin of the docs.
If in the mean time they go boom my car is theirs. sow its not easy.
Tks
p.d. read the second part of it.
I read all of it but you're still missing the point
I've done SVAs in company names, no checks are done to make sure the person applying is a resident. When dealing with UK government agencies the
least information you give them the better.
You have 2 options, find a company to do the SVA for you, BEC owners club for example
or another user on here.
PLEASE NOTE - Responses on Forum Threads may contain Sarcasm and may not be suitable for the hard of Thinking.
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JoaoCaldeira
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 08:32 PM |
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Don't bother with explainin that the car will be back to Spain.
Contact a UK manufacturer / friendly locost forum fellow, SVA it, get a UK plate, pay road tax, fill V5 part to export, get the road tax back  , and
register it in anywhere in EU, as there is a directive that obliges any country to give a national plate to any car coming from another EU country
Joao
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Paul (Notts)
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| posted on 16/11/07 at 08:38 PM |
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Get in touch with the BEC owners club on this site - they may be able to sva for you and then export it..
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tks
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| posted on 17/11/07 at 11:23 AM |
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quote:
Edit in reply to above: Spain, along with most other EC countries, do not offer a single vehicle approval scheme as their governments did not see the
necesary demand.
The only country i know of wich directly accepts the import rule is the NL.
In NL you only can SVA your car if its 100% handmade, sow now kit brought from the UK
In Spain you can do what you want, but you need to prove that you car is conform the current regs. (like a total new car) sow EURO 4 emissions are
needed.
BEC owners club, thats a good idea!
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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robertst
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| posted on 17/11/07 at 01:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
Edit in reply to above: Spain, along with most other EC countries, do not offer a single vehicle approval scheme as their governments did not see the
necesary demand.
[Edited on 16/11/07 by matt_claydon]
that statement is half right. there is and has been an individual approval scheme in Spain since 1986 but that hasnt been revised, so it is not as
comprehensive and revised as the SVA scheme, which has even its own manual. in other words as there is almost little to no demand as you say, this
process exists, but it is a neverending labyrinth of bureaucratic processes.
the only approved laboratory to test the car in spain is smack-bang in the middle of madrid in the governments Aerospace testing facilities, and the
lab fees for testing your car are around €2500, and you are not guraranteed it will pass as you dont have any sort of comprehensive manual such as the
SVA one. then you have to fight with not only the guys at the lab, but with those at the ministry of industry, those at the DGT (DVLA equivalent),
those at the MoT stations, and those from the insurance company to clarify and explain WHAT A LOTUS SEVEN IS! and repeat once and over again that,
"no i am not a professional, i am an AMATEUR builder". and thats when the fun starts.
so as you can see, it not only costs less to take the whole trip to the UK, it is less stressful, and you have less chances of suffering a coronary
disease during the registration process. at least people know what a lotus seven is up there.
Tom
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matt_claydon
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| posted on 17/11/07 at 03:51 PM |
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Ah I see. I didn't realise that there was a scheme but people just preferred not to use it! I had always assumed that there wasn't one
because everyone came over here.
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tks
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| posted on 24/1/08 at 01:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_claydon
Ah I see. I didn't realise that there was a scheme but people just preferred not to use it! I had always assumed that there wasn't one
because everyone came over here.
One thing is a sheme wich is usefull and another thing is a non working existing sheme.
For example Spain does accept a self-buit car but how do you prove that you comply with EURO 4??? They won't accept the fact that that engine is
from a Euro4 donor.
Sow its not a question of choices...
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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