Guinness
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 03:09 PM |
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Lotus Europa
Thinking about Scootz advert for the Lotus Europa got me thinking. I've always really liked the Banks cars, but cost is prohibitive.
I guess the original 1.5 Renault engine isn't going to give much in they way of outright power without serious cash being thrown at it.
I know a lot of the Banks cars use a 2.0 VX Redtop or more recently Zetecs, but I guess the original Renault gearbox is going to struggle to cope with
that sort of power output.
What other longtidudinal engine / gearbox options might work? Audi V6?
Alternatively how much work would it be to convert to a transverse engine / gearbox? Duratec / Zetec + MTX75 straight out of a Focus / Mundayo?
Looking at the photo above, the chassis does look typically Lotus (less is more). If you were to remove the rear gearbox mount, beef it up at the
back, then remove the brace between the shockers / V bit you'd have a big (floppy) open space to play with. Once the engine / gearbox of choice
was installed, weld some bracing back in?
Cheers
Mike
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 03:14 PM |
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an old aircooled beetle engine would fit in there quite nicely 
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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Guinness
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 03:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
an old aircooled beetle engine would fit in there quite nicely
Perhaps I should have worded that more carefully, I wanted MORE power than the 1.5 Renault engine, not LESS 
Cheers
Mike
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 03:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
an old aircooled beetle engine would fit in there quite nicely
It would hang out the back! And make possibly the nastiest automotive related noise.
The problem with a transverse engine, (beside potential bodywork mods) is that the engine location would be moved rearwards, so may spoil the
handling.
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grazzledazzle
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 03:30 PM |
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Renault transaxle should be fine.
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StevieB
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 03:41 PM |
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Could always have a look on racecarsdirect for a second hand hewland - not cheap by any means though!
Banks have recently done a version of the europa using Smart Roadster running gear, and you can convert them to BEC, so it would be reasonable to
assume you can run a banks europa as a BEC.
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gazza285
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 03:50 PM |
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My mate had a tuned Essex in his grasser running through a Renault box, never had any trouble.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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bram boekestein
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 03:51 PM |
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If the renault box is an UN-1, you have plenty of margin. Tornado uses them in GT40 replica's, even without modification's you can push
250hp through it without trouble.
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MikeLR
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 03:56 PM |
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Dont Banks do a conversion to fit the Red top engine/gear box across (East/West). I have seen an Europa racing at Anglesea with that convigeration.
Mike
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Guinness
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 04:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by grazzledazzle
Renault transaxle should be fine.
From a quick google it looks like there were two versions fitted, Type 336 and later Type 352 (stronger) box.
How much power can they take?
quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
Banks have recently done a version of the europa using Smart Roadster running gear, and you can convert them to BEC, so it would be reasonable to
assume you can run a banks europa as a BEC.
As tempting as another BEC would be, this would have to be a more practical classic, with posh things like a reverse and heating!
quote:
Originally posted by gazza285
My mate had a tuned Essex in his grasser running through a Renault box, never had any trouble.
How much does a tuned Essex put out?
quote:
Originally posted by bram boekestein
If the renault box is an UN-1, you have plenty of margin. Tornado uses them in GT40 replica's, even without modification's you can push
250hp through it without trouble.
Doesn't look like a UN-1 gearbox from my initial googling!
What about a V6 Duratec? Or a V6 Audi?
Mike
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bram boekestein
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 05:05 PM |
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If you use a v6 audi, you can use the stock transaxle as long as it isn't a quattro box and not a transverse box, all the rest of the
audi's have the right transaxle.
If you just want to use a audi transaxle then look for:
016 transaxle from audi 100/5000 1982/1987
012 transaxle al kinds of audi's 80, a4, a3
These are capable of 350hp, 016 can be strengthened with a bearing plate.
01e, 01x and 0A2 boxes are even stronger.
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wheelfelloff
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 05:09 PM |
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Just to show how old I am, I drove a GS Europa fitted with a race prepared Cosworth BDA back in 1974/75 ish. A really impressive car at the time but
these days one has to remember that it "only" produced 165bhp at the time. So a reasonable Zetec or redtop wouldn't be far off the
mark nowadays. Felt really sorry for the guy as when we got back to the garage the trail of oil exposed a broken oil line - good job we hadn't
gone a few miles further as it would have cost a fortune at the time.
Regards
Old Lotus Fan
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gregs
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 05:32 PM |
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how about a 1.8T lump out of a passat / A4...
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grazzledazzle
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 05:58 PM |
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Do a quick internet search, you will find a guy who has transplanted an S type 3.0 duratec into an esprit with good results. Can't remember what
transaxle he used though, but there is quite a detailed blog of it.
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Guinness
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 06:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by grazzledazzle
Do a quick internet search, you will find a guy who has transplanted an S type 3.0 duratec into an esprit with good results. Can't remember what
transaxle he used though, but there is quite a detailed blog of it.
http://www.espritv6.co.uk/
Looks interesting, but used the UN-1 gearbox with the S Type Jag 2.5 l V6.
Thanks
Mike
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scootz
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 06:50 PM |
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Thread of the Year (cos I'm pondering this one too!).
I was going to use the supercharged blackbird engine that I have for sale coupled to the Powertec / Quaife unit from my Radical (with reverse!). 2
problems though:
1. The chassis does not lend itself to a transverse installation.
2. The Quaife unit is too long, so the halfshafts would be in no-mans land.
Oh, and 3. The chap who wants the rolling Radical chassis I had for sale would prefer the Quaife unit to be included.
Soooo... what to do!?
Re-con the original running gear and keep it old skool? There is some appeal to that, but I'd need to make sure I had AA cover for that
inevitable break-down (or 5).
Probably the most cost-effective option. The interior would also look nice as 'period' with a set of fresh Smiths guages, re-trimmed
seats, etc.
Only problem is I had a vision of a modern cockpit with CF seats and fancy gauges. Wouldn't really sit well with a 'period car'
engine (I think!). And yes - I already have the fancy gauges... don't want another of my now legendary loss-leader sales. Have spunked out a
fortune on them... probably wouldn't make enough from their sale to get the necessary Smith's!
I guess another option would be an Audi in-line 4 with 01X box... not sure what the length would be like in relation to the halfshaft???
When you look at the original Renault engine / box, they're both really quite small!
My back damage will ultimately dictate what I do... can't do any heavy work, so my days of lugging engines all over the place are firmly in the
past!
Not joined any Europa forums, so still not sure of all my options... does a Zetec mate to the Renault box easily... what power can the Renault box
deal with... ???
Think I need to give Banks a call!
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bram boekestein
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| posted on 29/7/09 at 07:05 PM |
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The renault requires a bellhousing, just like an mt75. You could put an adapterplate between a zetec bellhousing and the un-1, one thing to think of
if using the un-1 is that the bellhousing forms the front of the transaxle(crazy french), if you take the bellhousing of you can look at the diff, so
you have to make provisions for inputshaft seal and possible bearing.
Adapting a audi or porsche box would be easier.
Here is pdf with all important dimensions from all kinds of usuable transaxles, like bellhousing to driveshafts and overall length:
Transaxle comparison
And dimensions from a un-1:
[Edited on 29/7/09 by bram boekestein]
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scootz
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| posted on 30/7/09 at 08:31 AM |
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Just had a brief chat with Richard from Banks Europa... he raised an interesting point - his thoughts were to keep the older car (currently for sale)
if I wanted to complete a more outlandish conversion as comprehensive chassis mods would be required for big BHP, so I'd be stripping it right
back anyway!
So, it's decision time - keep the fresher one and restore sympathetically, or keep the older car and create a monster!
I know which has the greater appeal (monster monster MONSTER!). But am I physically capable - honestly? Absolutely not! Do I have the talent -
honestly? Probably... not!
Heart / Head... Head / Heart!?
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DarrenW
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| posted on 30/7/09 at 08:47 AM |
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I really cant help thinking a bike engine in a Europa isnt a good idea. How much do the std cars weigh? I have it in my head that bike engines are at
their durability limits in a 600 - 700kg vehicle. I could be wrong though.
Wasnt the silver Europa in the for sale ad the one that had a magazine feature poss 2 years ago with a big V8 in it? That car is a true inspiration.
Big car engine has to be the way forward. The idea of modern power and durability with period looks appeals to me. interior stripped out Ultima stylee
would look great (semi road / race look).
If the car was mint i wouldnt contemplate any mods though. As Banks says, more suited to a car that needs major work anyway.
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alistairolsen
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| posted on 30/7/09 at 08:53 AM |
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300bhp v8 from an audi a8 
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Guinness
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| posted on 30/7/09 at 08:53 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
monster monster MONSTER!).
Heart / Head... Head / Heart!?
Scootz, I'd take the red car you advertised off you in a heartbeat if I had the cash. (Would have to sell the Indy first).
I'd MOT it as quickly / cheaply as possible, get the V5 sorted.
Then strip it back, probably new type 62 bodywork (not sure I'd be able to repair the existing).
Then a Jag V6 from the S type with an appropriate UN-1 gearbox. Upgraded wheels / brakes / suspension to match.
Then a stripped out racer interior.
But it's going to be a canny sized project / budget.
How good / bad is the other car?
Mike
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scootz
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| posted on 30/7/09 at 10:49 AM |
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The other car is just a few days work for an MOT.
Untidy, but a go-er!
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