Slater
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 09:35 AM |
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Living in Johannesberg??
My job is being relocated from Aberdeen to Johannesberg. I have to decide to move my family (wife and 2 girls, aged 5 and 8), by March, otherwise
I'm at risk of losing my job. We have been offered a 1 week trip to go for a look to check out schools, housing etc. The company will pay for
the move, house, utilities and school.
Our main issue is with security and crime. I have read alot of conflicting things on the web about the place. Has anybody lived there? any opinions or
advice??
Why do they call Port Harcourt "The Garden City"?...... Becauase they can't spell Stramash.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 09:41 AM |
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I wouldnt live anywhere in S Africa for the reasons you state.
A Week to look at schools isnt long enough. You need that to look for a house at least!
For me, The safety of the family would override anything else.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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zilspeed
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 10:02 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Slater
My job is being relocated from Aberdeen to Johannesberg. I have to decide to move my family (wife and 2 girls, aged 5 and 8), by March, otherwise
I'm at risk of losing my job. We have been offered a 1 week trip to go for a look to check out schools, housing etc. The company will pay for
the move, house, utilities and school.
Our main issue is with security and crime. I have read alot of conflicting things on the web about the place. Has anybody lived there? any opinions or
advice??
U2U Mango
He knows what life is like both in Scotland and in SA.
If it helps, I know two people who spent all of their lives in SA until ten years ago when they moved to the cold and rain of Scotland. I don't
feel qualified to give an opinion and there are certainly a few members of this very forum who live there.
As above, Mango can give you his view from both sides of the argument.
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Matysiak
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 10:05 AM |
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I live in JHB, have done for twenty years. I also have two kids age five and eight. I am a british citizen and have the option to live in the UK, but
i choose to stay in South Africa....
Yes we have a crime problem, but if you are sensible you can enjoy a terrific lifestyle in SA.
I would recommend that you get the company to pay for private schooling, govenrment ones are rather crowded. If the company will pay for a house in a
secure golf estate, you will have it made. You could be anywhere in the world.....
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Findlay234
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 10:24 AM |
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My family is from JB, im from botswana but my grandmother and all aunts and cousins are still in JB. Yes there is a crime problem but as Matysiak said
as long as your sensible it is safe. There are certain areas you will avoid but as long as you do you should be ok. I would recommend doing a lot of
reading up before going and if the company are paying insist on one of the gated comunities. My grandmother lives in one and they have armed guards
24/7. She still drives and has never been hijacked.
All in all there is a crime problem but there are benefits to SA, your money will go a lot further.
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smart51
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 10:39 AM |
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I've never been to Jo'burg but have spent several weeks in East London and Cape Town. SA is a lovely country with good weather and great
food. Locally sourced goods are cheap and a decent standard of living can be had. We worked out with our colleagues over there that for the same job
that we did, they had a broadly equal standard of living.
Whilst we were there, the local guys insisted that we saw every part of the city to get a true picture of the country. There is a lot of just
unbelievable poverty and just a mile away some quite lavish luxury. SA society is more widely divided than the UK. JB does have a reputation of
being more of a crime hotspot than sleepy East London so get some local knowledge.
Of more concern to some people is political stability rather than crime. Mandela and Tutu did an admirable job of bringing the country out of
apartheid peacefully but their generation is old and newer politicians are not so well regarded. That said, SA is perhaps the most developed and
modern country in Africa with great healthcare, good universities (so I'm told) and modern communications.
Remember too that getting another job is an alternative to moving to the end of Africa to keep your current job. I'd put my family before my
job in such circumstances.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 10:49 AM |
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Dont get me wrong, ive seen pictures and videos of peoples holidays and it does look beautiful, but it would be a huge culture change from the UK /
Scotland.
For example, there are things that the kids can do here in relative safety that might not be so safe in SA.
I suppose im talking from an uneducated position though changing cultures is a big thing, and kids can be oblivious to the dangers of the different
culture.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Humbug
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 11:00 AM |
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You are best off getting views from people who live there (preferably Brits who have moved there and been there for some time).
My personal view, having visited Johannesburg for a week on business is that I would never move there... too many horror stories about
muggings, rapes, carjackings and killings... all this talk about gated communities is all very well, but it's not what I would want for my
family. Even locals admitted to me that in spite of razor wire on top of tall walls and armed response security alarm systems, houses get broken into
and people are not only robbed but physically harmed.
The UK has been getting worse (some areas worse than others) but nothing on that scale.
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vindicator
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 11:02 AM |
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I have had to go there for business on several occasions, spending upto 6 weeks at a time.
It is the only country I have been to that once you get in your car the doors lock automatically. At traffic lights (called robots!!) you are
constantly looking around, waiting for some one to approach you. Have travelled in the dark and always rolled up to the traffic lights and if nothing
coming gone over on red. But never stopped at a red light (as been advised to do so!!). If you do stop be prepared for someone running at your car.
(also depends which area you are in!!!) Crossing points are massive compared to here, as with everything else.
Some nice places to go are the rhino and lion park, monti casino for food and some gambling (if you are into that!)
Save up for a decent 4x4 and caravan (or tent) and you can go out for the weekend. Learn to shoot and take a rifle with you (at weekends!).
As for your open top car here, would not advise to take it out there. During the day at traffic lights, several sellers are there walking down the
cars selling there wares (all crap really, but they have to make some sort of living). Mostly car phone chargers and sun glasses.
Weather fantastic, people welcoming and there is always a barbi to go to.....
Would I transfer to S.A., I am still here!!!!
Regards
TimR
timr.spaces.live.com---build blog
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 11:45 AM |
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death of johannesburg.
death of durban
A posting from a relative facebook this morning
quote
Dean Du Plessis
Dog poisonings again in our neighbourhood. africa is so civilised,just misunderstood !
Yesterday at 18:53 via Mobile Web · Comment · Like / Unlike
View all 4 comments
Val Jackson
Trust your dogs are ok??? Shocking what goes on in this country - need more properly trained, professional police. We pay 2 different security
companies to protect us, that's over R6000 a year!!!!
7 hours ago
[Dean Du PlessisThey poisoned 8 dogs this last weekend.a woman who works in my office lost her boerboel.they poison the dogs prior to robbing and
stealing.had a spate of it last year. last week,a guest house couple were shot dead!
8 hours ago
[Edited on 10-11-09 by mangogrooveworkshop]
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02GF74
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 11:52 AM |
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Our company had peeps working out there, maybe 10 to 20, every one of them suffered a robbing or mugging. one guy at traffic lights had car windows
smashed in an attempted car jacking!! 
not to put you off but if you do decide to go there, you will be a bit wiser than ^^^ who where out there for a short time.
plus from the SA in the office, 2 of, there is what is known as white discrimination whereby your skin colour, in this case white, goes agaisnt you
for finding employment - something to conside should you wish to change job or be made unemployed.
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 12:00 PM |
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The South African renaming committee
got this one right
GAUTENG:
When you rearrange the letters
= GET A GUN
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Benzine
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 12:01 PM |
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apartheid has not ended in south africa. It's just covered up better these days. Beautiful country, horrible racism.
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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blakep82
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 12:09 PM |
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speaking to a black girl i'm working with the other week, shes from jo'burg. says its the same as any other country/city. its got good
areas and bad areas.
i wouldn't worry about it too much until you go over for a look to make your own mind up
[Edited on 10/11/09 by blakep82]
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Ivan
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 12:12 PM |
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Like any country there are go and no-go areas. The majority of the population will go through their life with nary a crime incident beyond some petty
crime - whilst some will have some truly horrific and brutal experiences.
The main problem with crime in SA is that some of the perpetrators appear to enjoy brutalising their victims and have little fear of the consequences.
However the general feeling among criminals appears to be that if you don't cause personal injury the police are unlikely to pursue the case too
seriously and you are unlikely to be caught.
With respect to using open kit cars you tend to be safe against hijacking as cars are generally hijacked on order and there's little or no
market for a Cobra or Locost. In my experience when driving my Cobra, the street vendors are normally more interested in admiring it and chatting
about it and egging you on to spin the wheels than selling you anything - just make sure you don't have anything valuable like a cell phone or
handbag lying in view or even fancy jewellery obvious on you.
I personally think you have a greater risk of serious injury from being beaten up by some drunken yobo on pub night in England than getting into
serious trouble in SA (As long as you are sensible and cautious here)
I - like most South Africans, don't own a gun any more, and don't feel the need for one, and am happy to spend the rest of my life here,
and love my country and it's people.
So - my advice would be - follow your heart and financial imperatives, if you come, be selective where you stay, learn caution and be security
conscious, send your kids to a private school and enjoy the lifestyle which is great, and remember that the vast majority of middle class citizens
don't live in fear here.
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Slater
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 01:01 PM |
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Thanks for the comments, a real mixed bag, I'll be going there in a few months to see for myself.
Why do they call Port Harcourt "The Garden City"?...... Becauase they can't spell Stramash.
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vindicator
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 01:09 PM |
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Sorry about this, but just had this email sent from our SA office. We get robbed 2 or 3 times per year and the office is inside a business park that
is surrounded by fences and high brick walls. We are just a normal company that uses a lot of pc's.
"It is with deep regret we inform you that members of the Facilities staff were subjected to the trauma of an armed robbery in our office on
Saturday afternoon. The matter is now in the hands of the South African Police Services who are in the process of conducting a full investigation.
Should it be necessary, we ask that you give them your full co-operation.
The repercussions of this incident may have an emotional impact on the staff members and should you feel the need to discuss your particular
circumstances please feel free to approach me"
timr.spaces.live.com---build blog
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oldtimer
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 03:26 PM |
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Although I've been to SA a couple of times and my brother lived in Durban, I have never lived there. We all know the stories from the press.
I did live for a while in a secure house in Lagos, not a gated community. Even with security guards 24/7, high walls, barbed wire and dogs we still
had bars on all windows, steel entrance door and steel door at the bottom of the stairs incase intruders made it inside.
What a way to live. Some went out with wives and children as they saw having maids, drivers and paid private education a bonus. Me? - not how I want
to live - there again SA has huge space, very friendly people (Mostly) and I had a great time there!
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Jasper
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 04:15 PM |
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Sorry, but I don't get this whole thing: 'As in most countries there are no and no-go areas' ....
WHAT ????? There really isn't anywhere in the UK I wouldn't go, or probably for that matter in most EU countries.
And why would you want to live somewhere you need to be sensible and cautious, is that a way to live? I want to be able to go out, get drunk and not
worry about making it home.
Why live in a gated community with guards when you can live in a normal street? Why worry about it every time you pull up at a traffic light?
I know two people who were born and live in SA, and all they want to do is leave but they can't.
I'm sure it's a very beautiful country, but along with most other countries in Africa it would be bottom of my list of places I would want
to take my family.
Sorry for the rant
Maybe it's different if you grow up there, your used to having to be security conscious and it's just part of how you live - but I think
if you moved there and weren't used to it, it would be a different kettle of fish altogether.
On a more positive note I've got relatives who live in Cape Town. They love it and run a successful business their and moved from London, but
they are seriously rich and have all the help and security they need.
[Edited on 10/11/09 by Jasper]
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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Ivan
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| posted on 10/11/09 at 04:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Sorry, but I don't get this whole thing: 'As in most countries there are no and no-go areas' ....
WHAT ????? There really isn't anywhere in the UK I wouldn't go, or probably for that matter in most EU countries.
And why would you want to live somewhere you need to be sensible and cautious, is that a way to live? I want to be able to go out, get drunk and not
worry about making it home.
Why live in a gated community with guards when you can live in a normal street? Why worry about it every time you pull up at a traffic light?
I know two people who were born and live in SA, and all they want to do is leave but they can't.
I'm sure it's a very beautiful country, but along with most other countries in Africa it would be bottom of my list of places I would want
to take my family.
Sorry for the rant
Not everyone lives in gated villages - none of my relatives do and I have many - I don't even have burglar bars on my windows nor a fence or
wall around my property but then I live in a relatively crime free area and have only had 2 very minor burglaries in 28 years (Stole a video recorder
and mini hifi in one and nothing that we could find in the other).
I also never give hijacking a second thought and of all my friends, colleagues and acquaintances only know of one who has had his vehicle hijacked. Of
course I do drive with my car doors locked and don't leave the front door open when in the back of the house but then maybe you don't
either. I also try to avoid areas where gangster and drug activity is high.
I also don't believe you that there are no areas that wouldn't be safe to walk alone at night in England and the EU.
I have no driveway per se and spend hours working in the garage with the garage door open or if it's very windy (often in the Cape) 3/4
closed.
And yes - it would be nice to not have to worry about security but looking at recent threads on here about car theft and keys in locks etc it looks
like you have similar concerns in England and I bet in the rest of the EU as well.
I think the biggest differences between SA and England is the fact that public transport is safe in England and not here and that people can move
around freely in most areas at night - but then that's pretty true of the club areas in Cape Town as well, but certainly not true in many other
areas.
[Edited on 10/11/09 by Ivan]
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